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Old 02-22-2011, 10:36 AM   #101
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Default Re: Kevin Costner up for a role?

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Continued failure if they go with a Superman who runs home to mommy and daddy for pie and advice.

Of course this is just being made to keep the rights from Siegel's daughter (his wife passed away just recently), so it's not like they give a crap about getting Superman right I guess.
You really hate your own parents, don't you?

Hey, I often see my parents and talk things over with them. Guess I'm a pretty big failure at life, huh?

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Old 02-22-2011, 11:01 AM   #102
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geena davis for martha maybe? shes 6 ' tho.
I'm not sure how "old" Costner is going to look playing Pa Kent, but think Helen Mirren is a solid choice. She's a great actress and she worked with Snyder before on Guardians.

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Old 02-22-2011, 11:07 AM   #103
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Default Re: Kevin Costner up for a role?

Like I said before I never really rated him highly as an actor but I think he'd be spot on for Pa Kent.

I hope he's cast at least its something else official

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Old 02-22-2011, 11:19 AM   #104
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Default Re: Kevin Costner up for a role?

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You really hate your own parents, don't you?

Hey, I often see my parents and talk things over with them. Guess I'm a pretty big failure at life, huh?
You have the wrong room. Psychoanalysis 101 is down the hall.

In the early golden age comics, Superman had only the memory of the morals his parents taught him. He could never go back and ask for advice, meaning he had to grow to be very self-sufficient and independent. And that in turn may have made him more admirable as a character.

While someone may say it's similar to Batman, there's a key difference. Batman is about stopping the same kind of events that stole his parents away from him, while Superman is about upholding the morals his parents taught him, and inspiring them in others.


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Old 02-22-2011, 11:28 AM   #105
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Default Re: Kevin Costner up for a role?

I think I have a solution to this issue with Superman's parents. It would also fix the alleged problem of whether or not Superman can truly fit into the modern age of the superhero.

At the beginning of the film, we see Superman as he is traditionally presented: the Big, Blue Boy Scout. He fights crime and saves civilians with a big smile on his face. He flies home from time to time to have apple pie with his folks. He stands for Truth, Justice and the American Way.

And no one respects him. TMZ starts rumors that he's bad in bed, since they can't find any legitimate dirt on him. Other tabloids allege that he's dumb as a rock and has no friends. Fox News questions his "American Way" motto since (as an alien) he was not born in the U.S.

All of this leaves Superman very depressed. He travels to Gotham and asks Batman how he keeps people from making fun of him. Batman tells him that it's probably because he just doesn't give a f**k either way and because he's not terribly concerned about working within the confines of the law when fighting crime. If he has to drop a guy off of a building or rip his fingernails out to get information out of him, so be it. Abhorred by Batman's considerably deplorable actions, Superman asks him how he got this way. Batman then tells him the story of how his parents were murdered.

This gets Big Blue thinking. After some deliberation, he flies to his parents' farm in Smallville. He tells them that he will always love them and that they have been an important influence in his life, up to this point. Then he turns on the heat vision and atomizes them.

After sprinkling the Kents' ashes over their cornfield, Supes dons a black costume and then flies back to Metropolis, where he rips Lex Luthor in half, burns down Suicide Slum, and crushes Jimmy Olsen's balls into oblivion for constantly flirting with Lois. Then Supes takes Lois back to the Fortress of Solitude and plows her for 2 weeks straight.

Box office gold.

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Old 02-22-2011, 11:36 AM   #106
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You have the wrong room. Psychoanalysis 101 is down the hall.

In the early golden age comics, Superman had only the memory of the morals his parents taught him. He could never go back and ask for advice, meaning he had to grow to be very self-sufficient and independent. And that in turn may have made him more admirable as a character.

While someone may say it's similar to Batman, there's a key difference. Batman is about stopping the same kind of events that stole his parents away from him, while Superman is about upholding the morals his parents taught him, and inspiring them in others.
And yet Superman in modern comics is still the inspiring and wholesome hero he's always been. He just has people to talk to now. I like the fact that Clark can talk to people. And note how I said Clark. Not Superman. Clark is the real person.

This is even more important on film. In a movie you need a way for the character to talk about what is going on. We don't get to see their thought bubbles. In Nolan's Batman movies Bruce is only real when he is with Alfred. Without Alfred we would have no idea what is really going on with Bruce Wayne, the personality hidden behind the playboy Bruce and the vigilante Batman. Superman is the same way. He hides behind the public figure of Superman and the un-intimidating figure of Metropolis Clark. So in order to get to know the real Clark we need to have people he can talk with. That means Ma and Pa Kent and possibly Lana Lang.

And this is all before we get to the fact that I like Clark talking with his parents. I like the contrast between Clark and Bruce. I always look at the two and see Batman as what Superman would have been had he not had the Kents to be there for him. Bruce sees Clark as what he has always wanted but can never have. That's one of the ways Superman is better than Batman. Batman can never have what Clark has. He can never be that happy.

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Old 02-22-2011, 11:45 AM   #107
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I say Superman, Clark Kent (Metropolis), Clark Kent (Smallville), could be written as all being the "real" person. Different aspects of the same person, one being as legit as the other.

There are other routes than what BB/TDK did.

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Old 02-22-2011, 11:47 AM   #108
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Self-sufficient and independent may be admirable, but it's not as interesting.

Superman is near perfect physically. Is he meant to be near-perfect mentally too? Rarely has doubt, or fear, or anxiety, or is unsure of himself?

Personally I'd prefer to see a Superman on screen who, whilst he's pretty self-assured most of the time, does have to struggle with certain things when he's put in complex situations. And I don't mean silly things like should he save someone's cat up the tree, or leave it there to teach them to look after it better

I'm talking about massive Earth-changing decisions like should he help out in areas of famine or war? Or should he let humankind stand on it's own 2 feet and learn from their mistakes? Should he give humans access to Kryptonian tech to better themselves, or allow mankind to progress naturally? These are the kind of things he has to grapple with when he has the power to change the world at his disposal, never mind the other unique situations he may find himself in on any given day.

And in those situations ....................... he does what most humans would if they're blessed enough to be able to do so : talk to their older, wiser parents and get some perspective & advice.

It doesn't make him weaker because he's 'running home to mom and dad'. If anything, with the massive power he has available to him and the fact that he can pretty much do what he wants without being easily stopped, it's admirable that he still seeks the counsel of those 2 humans who taught him to cherish life and treat people with respect.


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Old 02-22-2011, 11:54 AM   #109
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Default Re: Kevin Costner up for a role?

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Self-sufficient and independent may be admirable, but it's not as interesting.
Independence means a lot more variables, meaning it's more interesting. To me, anyway.

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Rarely has doubt, or fear, or anxiety, or is unsure of himself?
Who said he needs to rarely doubt, fear, be anxious, or unsure of himself.

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Old 02-22-2011, 11:57 AM   #110
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Default Re: Kevin Costner up for a role?

But then how do we as a viewer know he has fear/doubt/etc? Because he stares soulfully into space like Routh did? Because he talks to Lois? We don't even know if she'll know his secret in this film.

Having him talk to his parents will help achieve that exposition.

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Old 02-22-2011, 12:02 PM   #111
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But then how do we as a viewer know he has fear/doubt/etc? Because he stares soulfully into space like Routh did? Because he talks to Lois? We don't even know if she'll know his secret in this film.

Having him talk to his parents will help achieve that exposition.
Body language. Facial expressions. Inner monologue.

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Old 02-22-2011, 12:14 PM   #112
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Btw, I do want a Superman who overall knows his higher goals, and is determined to meet them. Self-doubt is the exception, confidence is the rule.

Also, moments where he's unsure of himself are best suited for logistical problems. "How do I stop Brainiac from integrating into the Pentagon computers while also saving Metropolis from these tiny robots that are showering down and hurting people?" (pulled that out of nowhere, you get the idea)

Pre-Superman example: "I want to make a difference in the world, to give humanity something to look up to, but how exactly do I do that?"

He knows what he wants, but sometimes draws a blank on the how.


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Old 02-22-2011, 12:36 PM   #113
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Default Re: Kevin Costner up for a role?

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I do indeed. My point is that he looked and acted a lot older and more frail. You can't honestly tell me that Glenn Ford in S:TM the movie and Kevin Costner look similar in terms of age & fitness, even though there's only 4yrs of difference? That's why I'm glad that Costner has been mentioned, he doesn't look or act like he's 56.

Like I said, I'm not running down Glenn's Ford version - he did a great job and it worked back then.

Pa Knet in S:TM was supposed to be older looking. Pa kent back in the 1970's was always drawn like this:
.
He played the part as required

He was also starring in a number of modern westerns and police shows.

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Old 02-22-2011, 12:42 PM   #114
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I know all that. I've already said Glenn Ford did a good job and it worked back then. Is no-one reading my post?

The only point I'm making is that a new version should have a more modern and younger Jonathan Kent.

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Old 02-22-2011, 01:02 PM   #115
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The only point I'm making is that a new version should have a more modern and younger Jonathan Kent.
The most modern comics still have the Kents as older grandparent figures.



Everything in rural Smallville is supposed to be old and aged. It's how you contrast it with the fast vibrant Metropolis.




Birthright was the only comic series to de-age the Kents drastically, and it was only done to tie in with the Smallville TV Series at the time which wanted younger Kents to relate with it's teen audiences (The WB/CW).

John Byrne's "Man of Steel" reboot still had the Kents as elderly grandparent figures too.

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Old 02-22-2011, 01:09 PM   #116
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I think the Kents should still be alive, it makes Superman different from almost every other superhero, who have dead parents.

(Of course, Superman's biological parents are dead, along with his entire race)

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Old 02-22-2011, 01:13 PM   #117
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Weren't the Kents made younger in Earth One? I think that's what I remembered from the previews they released.

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Old 02-22-2011, 01:17 PM   #118
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I think the Kents should still be alive, it makes Superman different from almost every other superhero, who have dead parents.

(Of course, Superman's biological parents are dead, along with his entire race)
Meh, that doesn't count, lol.

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Old 02-22-2011, 01:18 PM   #119
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Default Re: Kevin Costner up for a role?

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You really hate your own parents, don't you?

Hey, I often see my parents and talk things over with them. Guess I'm a pretty big failure at life, huh?
Instead of trying to Psychoanalyze me, you should learn and analyze the Superman comics from the time in which the character was actually successful, popular, and relevant instead of the fail comics you grew up reading and so desperately hang on to. You grew up reading a failed experiment, an experiment that has resulted in Superman reaching the depths of near total irrelevance that he now languishes at.

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You have the wrong room. Psychoanalysis 101 is down the hall.

In the early golden age comics, Superman had only the memory of the morals his parents taught him. He could never go back and ask for advice, meaning he had to grow to be very self-sufficient and independent. And that in turn may have made him more admirable as a character.

While someone may say it's similar to Batman, there's a key difference. Batman is about stopping the same kind of events that stole his parents away from him, while Superman is about upholding the morals his parents taught him, and inspiring them in others.
Precisely. Jerry Siegel's own father was murdered and he ended up estranged from his mother. Superman was alone in the world for a reason. A Superman who has a perfect, idyllic life is very, very boring and turns people off of the character.

And for the record, I am very close to my father and was close to my mother. I generally am against killing characters and was initially happy the Kents were left alive in the 1986 reboot-it was one of the things I initially liked about it. But as the years went on, I realized that it was bad for Superman because it kept him in Superboy mode as a character and did more bad than good.

Back to the subject at hand, I once again reiterate that I do love the Kents as characters and if Costner gets the part of Jonathan Kent, then that is a really wise choice.

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Old 02-22-2011, 01:30 PM   #120
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love this pick

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Old 02-22-2011, 01:37 PM   #121
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Seeing Kevin Costner's name makes me think of Susan Sarandon. I think she'd provide a wonderfully energized but grounded take on Martha.

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Old 02-22-2011, 01:41 PM   #122
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Default Re: Kevin Costner up for a role?

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Instead of trying to Psychoanalyze me, you should learn and analyze the Superman comics from the time in which the character was actually successful, popular, and relevant instead of the fail comics you grew up reading and so desperately hang on to. You grew up reading a failed experiment, an experiment that has resulted in Superman reaching the depths of near total irrelevance that he now languishes at.
Ladies and gentlemen, I present to you the most arrogant and full of himself Superman fan I have ever encountered. Oh yes, the only good comics are the ones you like. Everything else is a "fail comic." Sure smells like smug B.S. in here.

Besides, we're not even talking about the comics. We're talking about the film that Kevin Costner is gonna be in. And the addition of the Kents works better on film, even if you think that it doesn't work in the comics (which it does). Batman has Alfred to talk to. Peter Parker has Aunt May for Peter problems and Mary Jane for Spidey problems. Who does Superman have to talk to? Lois? She's just a super groupie in her Silver Age depiction (and before you start in, yes, I have read tons of Silver Age Superman and all the Golden Age I can get my hands on), and in the post-Crisis continuity he wasn't that close to her until he got her to like Clark Kent. The person Superman talks to, his Alfred and Aunt May, are his parents. That's how we know what is going on inside his head. They're the Obi-Wan, the Sallah, the Samwise Gamgee. To take them out of at least the first film would be to leave Superman stranded and alone. You know, kind of like how he was in Superman Returns. Who did Superman talk to in that movie? Who could he talk to?

Plus, like some others have pointed out, Superman is one of the few heroes to have a normal and functioning family life. I like that about him. It makes him special. Not every hero's life has to be miserable and lonely like Spider-Man's.



Precisely. Jerry Siegel's own father was murdered and he ended up estranged from his mother. Superman was alone in the world for a reason. A Superman who has a perfect, idyllic life is very, very boring and turns people off of the character.

And for the record, I am very close to my father and was close to my mother. I generally am against killing characters and was initially happy the Kents were left alive in the 1986 reboot-it was one of the things I initially liked about it. But as the years went on, I realized that it was bad for Superman because it kept him in Superboy mode as a character and did more bad than good.

Back to the subject at hand, I once again reiterate that I do love the Kents as characters and if Costner gets the part of Jonathan Kent, then that is a really wise choice.[/QUOTE]

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Old 02-22-2011, 01:44 PM   #123
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Seeing Kevin Costner's name makes me think of Susan Sarandon. I think she'd provide a wonderfully energized but grounded take on Martha.
Susan Sarandon worked with WB on SPeed Racer. she was a fantastic mom.

she could work .

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Old 02-22-2011, 01:53 PM   #124
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Anyone know if this is an origin tale?

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Old 02-22-2011, 02:00 PM   #125
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Weren't the Kents made younger in Earth One? I think that's what I remembered from the previews they released.
Pa Kent is dead when Clark leaves the farm, but Ma Kent does appear younger. They're a young couple when they find him.

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