The Official SENTINEL PRIME Thread

[Optimus_Prime_]

Originally Posted by sto_vo_kor_2000

If my explanation was as "flimsey" as you claim you'd think you could poke a hole in it insetead of simplely putting it down.


And, what doesnt make sence about it?

• Why would Megatron have to "evil program" the robots WHO BUILT HIM?!?!? to lead the Decepticons
• Why would Megatron say " [we] built them [on Earth]" when he meant "I rebuilt them"?
• Why would Cybertronium-free bodies if they hadn't been built on Earth?
• Why would they follow the same internal logic of the Dinobots' origin in season 1, only to have a retold origin in line with prior events of season 2? Seems convienent?
• Do you know it's a children's cartoon and dialogue is not suppose to be vague?
• Do you know the writers have admitted to missing that line in Heavy Metal War?
• Why does every Transformers website list it under "goofs/continuity errors"?

The Autobot hq was huge, its verse sensible , and logical to believe that Blaster and the others were located in a part of the ship thast wasnt asseable durring season 1.

Doesn't matter whether it's sensible. They weren't there the whole time, and then they were and treated as if they'd never left.

I can assure you they were not animating those characters. They didn't even have the character designs done yet. You're just claiming animation limitations as evidence (by the way that's a miscolored Ironhide, NOT Grapple)

The bible cant be made "wrong" by what comes in the series later.....althou a bible is not canon and sometimes things are changed from bible to series.

Or sometimes things are omitted unintentionally. In this case the series Bible failed to mention something that was clearly in the series

But Megatrons line does not contradict the bible or any later info given because his dialog was not definitive.
----------------It was to vague.

Dude, your spelling is infantile, you shouldn't be telling others how to interpret language.

[sto_vo_kor_2000]

Originally Posted by Optimus_Prime_

Dude, when The Secret of Omega Supreme premeired Transformers fans were like "wait, WTF?!?!?". It's what the episode is infamous for.

Thast just doesn't change anything I said.

The interpretation of fans and how they perceived the episodes in question do not equate to the episodes them self's being in contradiction.

Fans "assumed" Megatron's dialog indicated he created them as new life.

But nothing in the episode definitively states or supports that.

So theres no real contradiction in the origin.

[sto_vo_kor_2000]

Originally Posted by Optimus_Prime_

• Why would Megatron have to "evil program" the robots WHO BUILT HIM?!?!? to lead the Decepticons

Even Dr.Frankenstein did not intend to create a monster.

Theres no reason to assume the Constructicons that built Megatron intended him to be leader of an army or that he would re-start the war.

Theres no reason to assume the Constructicons that built Megatron intended him to be evil.

Theres also no reason to believe the team that built Megatron is the same team of Constructicons that came to earth in season 1.Remember in G1 their were large number of generic look a like bots running around.

The team that built Megatron numbered at 8 members, and didnt exactly match the models of the 6 member team we know came to earth.

• Why would Megatron say " [we] built them [on Earth]" when he meant "I rebuilt them"?

Because its still an adequate way to describe what was done.

Particularly if "new bodies" were built.

"New bodies" are built...not re-built

• Why would Cybertronium-free bodies if they hadn't been built on Earth?

This question confused me.

Were you asking....."Why would they have Cybertronium-free bodies if they hadn't been built on Earth?"

If so thats pretty easy.

Theres no Cybertonium on earth, so their new bodies wouldnt have any.

• Why would they follow the same internal logic of the Dinobots' origin in season 1, only to have a retold origin in line with prior events of season 2? Seems convienent?

Not sure what your refering to here.

The Constructicons didnt get an origin story.

Megatrons 1 vague line just doesnt amount to an origin story.

• Do you know it's a children's cartoon and dialogue is not suppose to be vague?

Sorry but thats faultily logic.

The toon chose to be vague and give hints when it wanted to [the search for Alpha trion is one example], and at other times were direct and open.

Many shows are like that, even kids cartoons.

• Do you know the writers have admitted to missing that line in Heavy Metal War?

The writers only admited to following the outline given to them from the bible.

They said they were un-aware if an origin for the characters was already givin.

But the fact it, no origin was givin.

Like I said, Megatrons vague line doesnt amount to an origin.

• Why does every Transformers website list it under "goofs/continuity errors"?

Fan auumptions.

Its wide spread, doesnt make it fact.

Doesn't matter whether it's sensible.

Now your contradicting yourself.

It does matter if it is sensible since it was you that claimed it made no f'n sense

They weren't there the whole time, and then they were and treated as if they'd never left.

You cant say they werent there the whole time in a different part of the ship or damaged.

The pics I provided show its possible.

I can assure you they were not animating those characters. They didn't even have the character designs done yet. You're just claiming animation limitations as evidence

I didnt claim they were the same characters,.

The point I was trying to make was that there were others on the ship somewhere that were never named

Unless you can tell me who all those guys were and what happened to them....its possible the season 2 characters were also some where on the ship

Or sometimes things are omitted unintentionally. In this case the series Bible failed to mention something that was clearly in the series

The bibles notes were written before the series and the episode in question.

So, your theory doesnt fit the facts.

Like I said, sometimes things are change after the bible is written, a good example is from Star Trek DS9.

Dude, your spelling is infantile, you shouldn't be telling others how to interpret language.

my spelling has nothing to do with my argument.

argue the issues in debate buddy ok.

[Optimus_Prime_]

Dude, get out more.

[sto_vo_kor_2000]

Originally Posted by Optimus_Prime_

(by the way that's a miscolored Ironhide, NOT Grapple)

Dosent match his character model.

So, nice try but no cigar.

Its more likely that was intended to be "Hauler" in robot mode.

In case you dont recall Hauler was the one who lifter Hound out of a ditch in the pilot and was never seen again.

Originally Posted by Optimus_Prime_

Dude, get out more.

illness prevents it.....these days.

[Hotwire]

Originally Posted by sto_vo_kor_2000

Thats a poor comparison.Building a house is a far cry from creating new life.

And you know what, if someone told me "they built a house" I am going to ask them if they designed it, or were working off someone elses blue prints.

Or if they simplely rebuilt a house.,

I would ask them if they also ran the wireing, bought the lumber/masonry or cut the wood and made the masonry them selfs.

Now maybe thats because I've spent much of my adult life managing in the field of home improvement.But those would be questions I would ask.And I would have asked some of the same questions as a child.

Not really.

But this issue really isint that deep.


not sure he/she was a very good teacher.

You missed my point. I was basically pointing out that you are analysing Transforms like it was Shakespeare! This show was nothing more than a commercial to sell toys. The reason characters like Blaster suddenly showed up was because Hasbro/Tomy just put out those toys. See this is also why the first movie killed off a bunch of characters. To make room for new figures. The reason storylines didn't match up, was because no one really seemed to keep track. Before you ask me how I know that, just ask yourself how you know for certain anything you assume to know about the show.

[sto_vo_kor_2000]

Originally Posted by Hotwire

You missed my point. I was basically pointing out that you are analysing Transforms like it was Shakespeare!

No, I got your point.

My point is that even as a child, I asked some of these questions.

When I saw "heavy metal war" for the first time I commented to my little brother that I didnt feel that Megatron built them from scratch .

Even then I rewaliosed the dialog wasnt definitive enough.

This show was nothing more than a commercial to sell toys. The reason characters like Blaster suddenly showed up was because Hasbro/Tomy just put out those toys.

And yet they still bothered to give us some kind of explanation for some of them.

Even if it was a lazy one.

See this is also why the first movie killed off a bunch of characters. To make room for new figures. The reason storylines didn't match up, was because no one really seemed to keep track. Before you ask me how I know that, just ask yourself how you know for certain anything you assume to know about the show.

I dont assume to know anything about the show.

What I speak on I know about.

I have not claimed that the writers/creators tried to deliver a master peace of literary art.

But one thing they did well, and activly tried to do was leave issues open, so that they could add to stories later with out creating much of a problem.

Thats why Megatrons dialog in "heavy metal war" was vague, it was by intent.

If they wanted to make it clear they could have...easily.

But they chose to use vague dialog so as to not close the door on a future story.

[Optimus_Prime_]

So would you consider Leia having vague memories of her mother in The Return of the Jedi a contradiction to their mother dying in childbirth as seen in the prequels?

[Dr Lee]

Originally Posted by Optimus_Prime_

So would you consider Leia having vague memories of her mother in The Return of the Jedi a contradiction to their mother dying in childbirth as seen in the prequels?

*Jumps in* I saw that as her adopted mother TBH....

[sto_vo_kor_2000]

Originally Posted by Optimus_Prime_

So would you consider Leia having vague memories of her mother in The Return of the Jedi a contradiction to their mother dying in childbirth as seen in the prequels?

On the surface ...yes.But if you look deeper there are mitigating factors in play with that situation.

Was she aware she was adopted when she answered that question?

Was she remembering her true mother, or Senator [King?] Bail Organa's first wife?

Was she remembering her birth mother trew the force, and because she was too you, she didnt know the difference?

Any of those scenarios fit and would plug any continuity issues.

[Optimus_Prime_]

Originally Posted by sto_vo_kor_2000

On the surface ...yes.But if you look deeper there are mitigating factors in play with that situation.

Was she aware she was adopted when she answered that question?

Was she remembering her true mother, or Senator [King?] Bail Organa's first wife?

Was she remembering her birth mother trew the force, and because she was too you, she didnt know the difference?

Any of those scenarios fit and would plug any continuity issues.

This is all that matters. That is what a contradiction is. You can do all the mental masturbation you want after the fact, but it doesn't change the fact that you had to for it to fit.

[sto_vo_kor_2000]

Originally Posted by Optimus_Prime_

This is all that matters. That is what a contradiction is. You can do all the mental masturbation you want after the fact, but it doesn't change the fact that you had to for it to fit.

Sorry but thats not the case.

A true contradiction is something that cant easily be rectified with a little thought.

This is fiction, and fiction is intended to be thought provoking at the same time that its entertaining.

Maybe not deep and philosophical, but not everything is spelled out in a film.

Leia's comments are extremely easy to reconsil, theres no true contradiction.Hell, here memories could be from the womb, there are some people that claim to remember such.

[Optimus_Prime_]

Originally Posted by sto_vo_kor_2000

Sorry but thats not the case.

A true contradiction is something that cant easily be rectified with a little thought.

This is fiction, and fiction is intended to be thought provoking at the same time that its entertaining.

Maybe not deep and philosophical, but not everything is spelled out in a film.

Leia's comments are extremely easy to reconsil, theres no true contradiction.Hell, here memories could be from the womb, there are some people that claim to remember such.

None of what you presented is a simple explanation that required little thought, they require lots of though, and I'm sorry, flat out stubborn stupidity to reconcile any of what you just said (in previous posts). You really have watched entirely too much television.

[sto_vo_kor_2000]

Originally Posted by Optimus_Prime_

None of what you presented is a simple explanation that required little thought, they require lots of though, and I'm sorry, flat out stubborn stupidity to reconcile any of what you just said (in previous posts).

Sorry but they hardly required any thought at all.

I formulated those theories before I finished watching the film the first time.

"stubborn stupidity" is what your displaying by denying that those ideas need very little thought.

Even the "non-geek" fan, who doesnt know much about the force, would had considered the possibility that Leia was talking about her adopted fathers first wife.

Its standardized soup opera and sti-com story telling.

You really have watched entirely too much television.

The same can be said about a person arguing about the same topics.

How about you keep to the debate issues, and keep your personal little petty comments to yourself?

They dont serve any positive purpose.

[sto_vo_kor_2000]

Not to mention that Leia never claimed to remember "actually" seeing her mother.

Look at the dialog itself.

LUKE
Leia... do you remember your mother? Your
real mother?

LEIA
Just a little bit. She died when I was very
young.

LUKE
What do you remember?

LEIA
Just...images, really. Feelings.

LUKE
Tell me.

"Images, Feelings"...these were her only claims.And I'm sorry but thats not a definitive statement.Its vague.

If this is beyond your imagination to have considered, with very little effort, that it was the Force that gave her these "memories"?

I'm sorry but thats just pretty sad.

And even the first wife theory would not have taken any imagination.

There is no real contradiction or plot hole. Only a difference from what you perceived and what was actually said..

Same with the Constructicon origin.

[The Caped Knight]

Leonard Nimoy unretires for Transformers sequel

Leonard Nimoy knows this sounds a little illogical. After announcing his retirement last April in the wake of his Spock role in J.J. Abrams' 2009 Star Trek reboot and his guest turn on TV's Fringe, the 80-year-old actor has now signed on as the voice of long-lost Autobot leader Sentinel Prime in Transformers: Dark of the Moon. "I'm doing it! I'm doing it! I'm back-back after, what is it, 25 years or something?" says Nimoy, referring to his work as the voice of Galvatron in 1986's animated The Transformers: The Movie.

"I have been through many resurrections in my career," he says. "I have died and come back. I have left and come back. I've been canceled and come back. I did intend to not do any more work. And the fact is, I don't consider this work. This is great fun." Nimoy is also rumored to be the voice of the dragon Smaug in Peter Jackson's The Hobbit, though he says only: "I have heard about that rumor, and that's all I know about it."

Nimoy has already recorded two sessions with Transformers director Michael Bay. "I don't think I'm very privy to any plot points, but I'm seeing some interesting footage." Asked to describe Sentinel Prime, Nimoy says, "Complex," and then "Why are you laughing?" Then he laughs too. -Anthony Breznican

http://transformerslive.blogspot.com/

[Marvin]

awesome find