Webbing formula

[White_widow]

Whether you love the franchise or just like chemistry, you've probably thought about spidey's webs. As a continuation of How to make the spiderman webshooters (http://forums.superherohype.com/showthread.php?t=343420), This place is only for the discussion of the webs themselves. Properties, unique traits, and possible mollecular formulas will all be studied here. For those who want the shooters feel free to visit the web shooter shop class.(http://forums.superherohype.com/show...3#post20110783)

[White_widow]

So the fluid is what you call a polymer. A polymer is a linking of several small mollecules (called monomers) into long chains. These can be pretty much be made of anything (synthetic and natural). If you have no idea what I am talking about, plastics and fabrics are both considered polymers.

Now chances are, parker's polymer is a copolymer, or a mix of polymers. He probably mixed a polymer with an elastomer and a glue. The reason for this is, most polymers aren't adhesive or stretchy. Another reason is that is shares properties of not only spiderwebs but of spandex. Spandex is a mixture of a polyurea and a polyurethane.

It's interesting to note that replacing one of the chemicals used to make polyurethane can make nylon. That is the first theory. It is a polyurea nylon copolymer. Polyurethane is naturally adhesive, so that would need tweaking but it's what we have so far in this formula.

[spidey44]

how are you going to mix the polyurea and the nylon.

[White_widow]

That's one of those things that only Stanleewannabe and Thebatsam can make. You'd need a school or company to allow yourself to get the chemicals.

A wikipedia entry on dryspinning spandex

Solution dry spinning
Step 1: The first step is to produce the prepolymer. This is done by mixing a macroglycol with a diisocyanate monomer. The two compounds are mixed together in a reaction vessel to produce a prepolymer. A typical ratio of glycol to diisocyanate is 1:2.[2]
Step 2: The prepolymer is further reacted with an equal amount of diamine. This reaction is known as chain extension reaction. The resulting solution is diluted with a solvent to produce the spinning solution. The solvent helps make the solution thinner and more easily handled, and then it can be pumped into the fibre production cell.

Nylon is prepared with the diamine. You just have to switch one of the prepolymers.

[White_widow]

Now one of the next theories is to actually make Spiderwebs. This is again one of those things that can only be made in a lab. What one would need to do is take powdered fibroin and liquify it. Getting fibroin isn't too hard but the solvent for spiderwebbing is very very dangerous. It's I think sulferic acid.

There is another way to make it a liquid. That would be to radiate it. After a certain amount or irradiation, it is actually soluable in cold water. Add an adhesive and you're in business.

[spidey44]

do you know if you can melt a spiderweb or would it burn.

[White_widow]

I just looked it up and someone said," They're not really flammable, but any high heat makes the proteins in the silk coagulate and denature, and the whole thing collapses almost instantly. Just bringing a match near a spider web will clear the whole thing before the flame can even touch the web."

[spidey44]

...

[White_widow]

The next theory of chemical composition is The gum glue theory. Gum (a very stretchy elastomer) is made of vinyl acetate. The ingedient in white glue is polyvinyl acetate, connected chains of the same substance. finally when a chemical reaction occurs, it becomes polyvinyl alcohol, a relatively strongish polymer. I don't know how to combine this data, but it's convenient that a few minor chemical tweaks can create an elastomer, an adhesive, and a polymer.

[White_widow]

The fourth theory is one that's been cycling through all spiderman related forums and yet noone has tried it because of the possible chemical burns.

Nylon 6,10 with an attached adhesive.

Mix hexamethylene diamine and sebacoyl chloride to make nylon in a few seconds. Add a glue to make is sticky and a plasticiser to make it strong. It's acidic.

[White_widow]

The fifth theory is to use a thermoplastic that is regulated with heat. This is the glue gun theory. Since glue sticks change in formula so much, just assume that they are easy to mess with so long as you have sufficient heat.

[White_widow]

The sixth theory is the plastic solvent theory. When partially dissolved, the plastic will act like an elastomer. This was first tested with polystyrene which isn't strong enough, but was a good test model. This is the basis of the current formula that is completed with crosslinks.

[Symbiote-Man]

As for a new webshooter I have in mind, I think the fourth theory best would work. What's that about chemical burns? What is the worst that could happen, and how can I stop it from happening?

I laugh in the face of burns! (Burn is my middle name!)

[Symbiote-Man]

If it will burn the things (Or people) I shoot, then I won't do it. Then I'll look for something else. Any recommendations for something that will allow me to swing from buildings?

[thebatsam]

You probably misunderstood Symbiote-man
The synthesis of the Nylon is dangerous....the reactants used can cause pretty bad chemical burns, the product created is fine
I haven't even tried it myself due top the polymer lab being busy most of the time....it's thesis season on campus

[White_widow]

If you want to swing, then I would invest in a grappling hook and steel cord with gloves that increase friction.

[thebatsam]

Dude, If you want to swing.....I suggest you don't, its really dangerous

Hypothetically, even if we had the perfect webshooter i.e. the one that PP has, we could still not swing on it without hurting ourselves badly.

[spidey44]

even if we did have the perfect web shooter and formula it would take a lot of strength to swing. you might as well web up some guy trying to rob you, while your walking down the street.

[JMA610]

Originally Posted by thebatsam

Dude, If you want to swing.....I suggest you don't, its really dangerous

Hypothetically, even if we had the perfect webshooter i.e. the one that PP has, we could still not swing on it without hurting ourselves badly.

Why not? People swing from vines in the jungle. Like in this video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vg2_9iet3qw
And this one: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VeLnRfxlbX4

While these are only examples, there is still a risk of injury while swinging. White_widow posted the formula for swinging a while back:

Net Force = Force of gravity + Force applied= m (v squared/r) + mg

where:
m is mass in kilograms
v is velocity or speed in swinging in meters/second
r is the length web line in meters
g is gravity's constant or 9.8 m/s squared

All we need is a really strong adhesive bond.

[thebatsam]

I understand what you're trying to say, but there's still a difference between starting from stationary swinging from a vine that's already attached to hundred year old plus tree and trying to swing spider-man style from some sort of artificial wire.

Obviously, no one is stupid to leap off a building with a webshooter and start swinging away, but saying that is impossible to do as your arms will probably come out of their sockets.

I get your point though, 'swinging' is a loose term and obviously some forms of swinging can be done.

[Symbiote-Man]

Oh well! Then... Next is third theory. How would I do that?

Grappleing hooks are not my thing!

[JMA610]

Originally Posted by Symbiote-Man

Oh well! Then... Next is third theory. How would I do that?

Grappleing hooks are not my thing!

Well you could make a mini CO2 projected grappling hook. That is actually more simple than an actual webshooter. Fishing line would work for this, too. It would retract kind of like Rorschachs from the Watchmen movie.

[spidey44]

JMA610 that would be cool.

[Symbiote-Man]

Cool, but I'm working on something that will be close to the comic. But it's still awesome!

[Symbiote-Man]

Originally Posted by White_widow

Now one of the next theories is to actually make Spiderwebs. This is again one of those things that can only be made in a lab. What one would need to do is take powdered fibroin and liquify it. Getting fibroin isn't too hard but the solvent for spiderwebbing is very very dangerous. It's I think sulferic acid.

There is another way to make it a liquid. That would be to radiate it. After a certain amount or irradiation, it is actually soluable in cold water. Add an adhesive and you're in business.

This sounds great! If I knew where to get powdered fibroin and how to irradiate it, couldn't I use superglue as an adhesive? By the way, where DO I get powdered fibroin and how DO I irradiate it?