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#51 | |
Nerd foru m dweller
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Since many here are determined to compare Spider-Man movies to SR.
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Lets face some facts, both Singer and Sam Raimi are a fan of Donner Superman movies (So is Nolan.) In fact the first Spider-Man movie has many parallels with STM, second Spider-Man movie follows Superman 2 in many areas, third Spider-Man movie is close in many respects to Superman 3. Superman as a Character is often compared to Moses and Jesus both in Comics and Movies, as Singer was making SR a part of existing Donnerverse Superman, it was to be expected. I would say that Spider-Man character was created by taking inspiration form Superman. Anyone who disagrees is not willing to look at these points.
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#52 | ||
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He said that the taget audience was wrong. And guess who was the obvious one to think about it in the first place? Himself. He never said "Audiences didn't get the movie." He said that the target audience for his Superman movie wasn't the right one for a Superman/action/summer blockbuster movie. He even says that he should have thought about it but that "when you're making a movie, you're not thinking about that stuff." That is where he puts the blame on himself. He favored his approach over the target audience for a summer blockbuster movie. And that's the mistake he admits. And even says that if he were to make another Superman movie he wouldn't do it that way. If he were blaming the audience he wouldn't be admitting that a different approach would have been better. Quote:
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#53 | |
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#54 | ||
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#55 |
Side-Kick
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I believe there was indeed a certain romanticism to SR in a similar way to Donners style.
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#56 | |
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How is Superman ever be with Lois or be able to be a father to his son without ruining a decent family and a decent person? Sorry but I don't want these kind of problems associated to Superman or in a summer blockbuster. Moreover, the whole movie based around the idea that Superman left without saying goodbye. Sorry but the Superman I know and the Superman showed in SII specifically said "I won't let you down again". Singer didnt even get the facts right when he wrote his messed up story and sequel that not even him understood what was cannon or not. He simply selected parts from it that he liked or not. Moreover, Superman would call a press conference, like Superman IV or even Lois & Clark, and explain what is going on. And he would also tell Lois if they were romantically involved and that is what a Superman does. This "I was afraid to tell the truth" simply doesn't work with Superman. It's a half-assed explanation thought about someone who didnt know Superman as a character and his motivations at all. These fundamental flaws with the story just makes it a bad Superman movie. Sorry. And didnt even talk about Luthor's plan... |
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#57 |
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Romance with Lois Lane was simply not possible because of the whole circumstance that Richard created. What was shown in the movie wasnt romantic at all. At least not to me.
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#58 | |
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#59 | ||
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He gave Lois that interview as to why he left, so that covers any press conference. Quote:
What a model fella. |
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#60 | |||||||
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What exactly is?
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And what, have you ever heard of families killing each other, unfaithfulness, murdering the person you love? Try Shakespeare and you'll find that in his romantic plays. Best romantic stories are not always about red roses and walking alon g the seashore. Quote:
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But then agauin, wasn't Bryan Singer himself the one saying that "Superman Returns was a bit nostalgic and romantic, and I don't think that was what people were expecting, especially in the summer," and that SR was "probably too "heavy" for a summer movie." So I see you and Singer agree on that. Which makes me wonder why you keep saying he doesn't get it. Quote:
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Luthor's plans, same as Superman motivations can be seen in Donner movies, which this movie is a sequel of. |
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#61 | ||
Clark Kent > Superman
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My interpretation of 'too heavy' = too intelligent, too deep, too thought provoking... But it's NOT thought provoking IMO.
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Superman: "I can only tell you what I believe, Diana. humankind has to be allowed to climb to its own destiny. We can't carry them there."
Flash: "But that's what she's saying. What's the point? Why should they need us at all?" Superman: "To catch them if they fall." |
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#62 | ||
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Here I go all over again: He said that the target audience was wrong. And guess who was the obvious one to think about it in the first place? Himself. He never said "Audiences didn't get the movie." He said that the target audience for his Superman movie wasn't the right one for a Superman/action/summer blockbuster movie. He even says that he should have thought about it but that "when you're making a movie, you're not thinking about that stuff." That is where he puts the blame on himself. He favored his approach over the target audience for a summer blockbuster movie. And that's the mistake he admits. And even says that if he were to make another Superman movie he wouldn't do it that way. If he were blaming the audience he wouldn't be admitting that a different approach would have been better. Quote:
Had he said "a summer blockbuster is always too light for my taste" I'd agree with you. |
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#63 | |
Clark Kent > Superman
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When your making a movie, OF COURSE your thinking about that stuff... ESPECIALLY when your making a summer blockbuster superhero movie! And beyond that point, it's still him blaming the audience he aimed it at... He's saying he was aiming it at women, as well as saying he was aiming it at Superman: The Movie nostalgia fans. I'm a woman, and I didn't like the movie. I know plenty of people who loved Superman: The Movie and it's sequels, and find Superman Returns an awful attempt at following it. So IMO he failed to even achieve what he was aiming for. The movie failed because it was a bad storyline, with badly written dialogue, terrible casting and a lack of charecterisation IMO. Not because it was aimed at women, or because it was released in summer and everyone expected a blockbuster.
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Superman: "I can only tell you what I believe, Diana. humankind has to be allowed to climb to its own destiny. We can't carry them there."
Flash: "But that's what she's saying. What's the point? Why should they need us at all?" Superman: "To catch them if they fall." |
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#64 | |||||
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No, many times directors don't think of the audience while making a movie, just the movie they want to make. People like Bay or Snyder do it more than others and yet sometimes they fail to connect the audience (Sucker Punch). That being good or bad is material for discussion. In the end, every Hollywood producer or director agree that no one knows for sure when a movie is going to succeed or not. Quote:
He says he should have done the movie differently if he wanted to make more people go and see it. He even says what things should have been differently. He never blames the audience. Quote:
Really, hopeful, you can't tell me what people do based on 2 or 3 cases. I can immediatelly tell you of people who don't know the old Donner movies and yet they liked SR. Big deal. Quote:
But right or wrong, he's not blaming the audience. Last edited by El Payaso; 04-24-2011 at 04:09 PM. |
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#65 | |
Clark Kent > Superman
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The way that the interview reads, to me, does not sound like he is owning up to the flaws of the movie. It sounds like a man who is reluctant to admit there is anything wrong with his movie, and that it failed due to reasons outside of the movie itself. Other than admitting that he made the movie HE wanted, he doesn't admit any of it's flaws. I personally found the tone of the interview a bit arrogant. I've seen an interview with J.J Abrams where he gets asked about his Superman script and makes a joke at his own expense. He understands that he really missed the mark with that. I just wish that Singer would have that sense of humility and be able to look back and go 'yeah, maybe the super kid was a bad move'.
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Superman: "I can only tell you what I believe, Diana. humankind has to be allowed to climb to its own destiny. We can't carry them there."
Flash: "But that's what she's saying. What's the point? Why should they need us at all?" Superman: "To catch them if they fall." |
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#66 |
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As if the only problem of the movie is to tight the first act. LOL What does he have to say about Luthor's ridiculous scheme?
Singer's is clearly arrogant in that interveiw, doesnt know the flaws of the movie and is clueless about Superman. Big Surprise. This is the same guy that wasted 300 million to make SR. May he never be close to a Superman movie again. Im sure he won't. The only good thing he did for Superman was that Up in the Sky documentary. |
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#67 | |||||||
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Now, if you tell me he's blaming the audience at least tell me how. Because he keeps saying that it was the movie that wasn't aimed to the right audience and that he would make it different if he were to make another one, not that the audience was uanble to 'get it' or anything of the like. Quote:
Nolan liked the movie and also did Raimi, what can I tell you? Different people, different opinions. Quote:
Second thing: "and I don't think that was what people were expecting, especially in the summer." Is that blaming the audience? He knows what people wants to see but he was thinking of something else. Is that blaming the audience? Now, what seems to be unforgivable for you is that he's not saying the things you want to hear about the movie. Just his opinion. Hopeful, as you are well-educated on what opinions are, you'll understand. Quote:
I can respect your opinion, but what Singer says tells me a different thing than arrogance. Quote:
In Singer's case, why admitting the kid was a bad move if he doesn't think so? And sincerely neither do I. SR needed more action, yes. But not everybody will think the same things as you, and not doing it is not being arrogant. Now, expecting other people to do it or you'll label them as arrogant on the other hand... **************** Quote:
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Well, next Superman movie's director has a couple of underdeveloping films and one fresh mega-bomb. Let's just hope and pray. Last edited by El Payaso; 04-24-2011 at 06:25 PM. |
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#68 | |
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#69 | |||
Clark Kent > Superman
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I don't feel he's done that at all. He seems to have turned a blind eye to all that, and given an opinion of why his films failed that makes him sound good. The 'mistakes' that he admits too, are IMO very reluctant. By saying that he made a 'nostalgic' movie and that if he had a chance again he'd make a balls to the wall action movie, it feels as though he's saying that if he could do it again, he'd make a movie that catered more towards people that don't go to the cinema for anything but thrills. As a girl, I would probably have loved a girly, sentimental superman movie in some ways. A Lois and Clark love story, with some cool action moments. SR could have been this in a lot of ways, and there are parts of it that I do like. There just is so much more to the reasons it didn't work, than it being directed at the wrong audience IMO. Quote:
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Superman: "I can only tell you what I believe, Diana. humankind has to be allowed to climb to its own destiny. We can't carry them there."
Flash: "But that's what she's saying. What's the point? Why should they need us at all?" Superman: "To catch them if they fall." |
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#70 | |||
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What is he going to say? Hey Bryan, people thought the kid was a bad idea. Ah well, good for them, I liked it. Quote:
According to most reviewers the movie was good enough. Singer happens to agree. Quote:
Now, more or less opinions about the movie, Singer was admitting things and was far from blaming the audience, as you claimed. What you wanted to hear is not a set-in-stone standard for where arrogance starts. |
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#71 |
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Sorry but anyone that defends Luthors plan as something acceptable for a villain in modern times just loses respect with me. Nothing cant be said about the subject anymore.
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#72 |
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Welcome to the world of different opinions. Try to adapt.
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#73 |
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Lets do this. You stick with SR, a movie you love so much and defend Singer all the time and Ill stick with the Cavill reboot. Theres no point in discussing this stuff with you anymore. Lets agree to disagree and hopefulsuicide should do the same.
What you dont see to get is that the target audience isnt the problem of the movie and thats what we're complaining. All the women that I know and went to see the movie didnt like it, i like romantic movies and didnt like SR and didnt find romantic at all. Lois is not a trainwreck because she is reckless in SR. Its because she is out of character, MISCAST and almost annoying as Lana in Smallville. The point is that, in our opinion, he didnt make a good movie for any target audience at all. Certainly not for Donner fans like me, certainly not for people who expected a modern take on Superman and a fun blockbuster and certainly not for the devil wears prada audience, whatever that means. The facts are and the results of SR are that it disappointed, split the fanbase in half, Routh will be the Goerge Lazenby of the Superman movies, it will not get a sequel, the Donner movies will be in the past as they need to and we're movin on and geting a reboot. Oh..And people dont respect Singer as a filmaker anymore as they did before. I like the guy, he directed on of my favorite movies of all time, the usual suspects, and i really like his X-men movies. He should just stay the hell away from Superman and im sure he will! Im done with you and dont want to talk about this movie anymore. Last edited by SuperDaniel; 04-24-2011 at 08:02 PM. |
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#74 | ||
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#75 | |
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So was Mary Jane Watson in Spider-man 2 and Spider-man 3, maybe even more.
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You are entitled to your opinion, but same goes for the director of SR.
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