MCU: The Marvel Cinematic Universe Official Discussion

[Wolvieboy17]

Oh, and Lord, this is that same thread. I started it in Feb sometime :P

[kedrell]

Can I just say how sad it is to hear all this outer space/cosmic talk and still have to realize that Marvel Studios doesn't have the FF or Silver Surfer rights.

When I think outer space Marvel adventures, Silver Surfer is the first thing that comes to mind.

[Lord]

Originally Posted by Wolvieboy17

No Lord, and I'll tell you why? No matter how good the film itself is, it's part of a franchise that will ultimately go nowhere, as long as it's with Fox. The Marvel Studios films are being built to last, creating characters that can keep existing. The MCU is greater than anyone one film.

First Class looks great, sure, but what happens as soon as Vaughn doesn't want to do the sequel? Or when Donner starts organising X4? It will dip back down straight away because Fox's priorities aren't in the right place.

Well, that's true but with x-men i think that as long as bryan synger is around it will remain good, FC, X4 and 5, the wolverine and possibly secound and third class will be good, in least i hope so.

[Wolvieboy17]

Are you serious? Bryan Singer produced X3 dude, and he didn't save that film.

[Lord]

Originally Posted by Wolvieboy17

Are you serious? Bryan Singer produced X3 dude, and he didn't save that film.

No he didn't.
He was to busy making Superman Returns and even that one wasn't a bad film, but it wasn't a very good superman film.
But x-men, huh, he didn't produce any of the bad x movies, and with FC he made part of the story, and with x-4 and 5, he wants to direct so yeah, i have reasons to think that he will make a good work.

[Alientraveller]

CoulsonFan, thanks for digging that up. I love the possibility Marvel's already made plans for Thanos! Such a shame though Marvel doesn't have the rights to Silver Surfer and Galactus, hell, you don't have to reboot, just carry on from his last film appearance while revealing his backstory.

[kookevin3]

Singers X-men movies were ok at best but no where near as good as they should be. Fox has completely screwed up the continuity. Marvel Studios reboot or bust.

[Tony Stark]

Originally Posted by Whiskey Tango

Getting Spidey and X-Men back has to be on their minds, at least in the long term. Those are big important franchises for Marvel. Surely those licenses won't last forever, even if Fox or Sony keeps cranking out sequels I would think there would have been some sort of clause allowing the properties to revert after a specified period of time.

Here's hoping, anyway. Probably won't matter for another 5-10 years, if that. I know I'd kill for an X-men movie with the same respect given to Iron Man and Thor.

For X-men, I think all they would need to do is write a check. We'll see what first class does, but if it turns out to be another Wolverine, then Fox won't have much interest in continuing the franchise.

For Spider-man it's going to be a tough road to climb. Over a billion dollars domestically for Sony, for the first three movies, and a franchise that plays well in every market, especialy Japan which is a big deal for Sony.

It's hard to tell how the reboot is going to turn out, but I've really liked what I've seen so far. And if it's successful, you can pretty much forget Marvel Studios getting the rights back for at least 10 years.

[Tony Stark]

Originally Posted by kookevin3

Singers X-men movies were ok at best but no where near as good as they should be. Fox has completely screwed up the continuity. Marvel Studios reboot or bust.

I'll agree with you partly. I thought X2 was terrific, but obviously some huge disapointments for me, like with Cyclops being a total non factor. Although the scene at the end and the way Marsden played that, I thought was great.

Needless to say, there are flaws there for sure, but I have to view those movies in the context in which they were made. It's easy to be critical now when we've had Spider-man 2, Iron Man, etc. which really pushed the boundries of the franchise.

[BatsDC]

In an ideal world, Marvel would somehow get FOX and the other companys who own character rights to let their characters be part of this shared universe or at least reference to it/ be referenced to. Like say, if we ever get X-Men 4, have something about the Avengers referenced to on a radio or something, mention them like Cyclops does in the Astonishing X-Men series, or have Spiderman referenced to in a MS movie. Technically, except for cameo roles, Marvel doesn't need these characters (X-Men, Spiderman, Daredevil etc.) until they have a big film such as Civil War or the Secret Invasion, both of which could be rewritten to have other characters in their place. And, even though the films would be the same plot of the iconic stories, they wouldn't be the same. Worst comes to worst Marvel could pay the companys to use the certain characters in their films. I'm sure they could probably even buy back afew characters that most likley won't be used in the franchises, or ones that aren't key to the films.

I think Black Panther and Ant Man are going to be Marvel's main focus after Iron Man 3, and then have Dr Strange, the Inhumans, Guardians of the Galaxy etc. plus the Thor and Captain America sequels follow, until our next Avengers film, which hopefully will then be followed by characters whos rights have reverted to Marvel. After Marvel's The Avengers comes out, I think we'll see afew franchises come back - does Marvel have Blade back yet? I'm pretty sure the Fantastic Four and Ghost Rider will be next back, but who knows after that. Daredevil could even be given back if it's reboot doesn't do well. The only chance we have of getting X-Men and Spidey into this universe is refences and paying them, as they are big money makers and Fox'll want them 'till they don't bring in the cash anymore. Apart from them, I'm fairly sure we will see everyone back soon, and most major characters have a film in the MCU.

[Alientraveller]

I found this, suggesting Marvel intends another event in 2017 (http://www.bleedingcool.com/2010/10/...-two-builds-to), which lends credence to Marvel planning everything five years in advance. If Thanos and the Eternals show up, could we also see the Eternals and the Council of God-heads?

[BatsDC]

Originally Posted by Alientraveller

I found this, suggesting Marvel intends another event in 2017 (http://www.bleedingcool.com/2010/10/...-two-builds-to), which lends credence to Marvel planning everything five years in advance. If Thanos and the Eternals show up, could we also see the Eternals and the Council of God-heads?

The fact it's so far away does sort of give me the impression it's going to be something big, possibly showing they might try and get some characters back before it.

[Alientraveller]

Ah sorry, that should've said Celestials and Council of God-heads. I'd love all the pantheons to cameo at some point in Thor's film appearances.

[Lord]

I don't want a civil war yet since the cinematic universe is still new but i want to see more solo movies leading to another reunion film with the ant-man and more.
I would like to see a hulk prequel and sequel, if marvel studios gets the rights back i would like to see a prequel for Incredible hulk dealing with his origin called Wolverine vs Hulk, wich would also be about the past of the wolverine as a canadian agent.

[Endeavor]

Originally Posted by Lord

But x-men, huh, he didn't produce any of the bad x movies, and with FC he made part of the story, and with x-4 and 5, he wants to direct so yeah, i have reasons to think that he will make a good work.

A lot of people have the opinion that Singer = Good X-Men movies, and that is not necessarily the case. Many people have forgotten that there was a huge factor to the first two X movies being what they were and that factor was Producer Tom DeSanto. HE was the true X-Men fan. He was the one who convinced Singer to take on the franchise and he was a driving force behind FOX greenlighting the movie to begin with. I'm not dissing Singer as a director, I think he's great, but he's not the X-Men guru that some people make him out to be. I think that faith in him is misplaced. I wasn't a fan of his comics work and I guess we will have to see how First Class comes out to then say if he's still got the touch or not. (so far though, on story and character selection alone, I'm not impressed).

[Spider-Fan]

Originally Posted by Lord

No he didn't.
He was to busy making Superman Returns and even that one wasn't a bad film, but it wasn't a very good superman film.
But x-men, huh, he didn't produce any of the bad x movies, and with FC he made part of the story, and with x-4 and 5, he wants to direct so yeah, i have reasons to think that he will make a good work.

I absolutely HATED Superman Returns. HATE IT. I thought Singer's X-Men films were okay, but very flawed and vastly overrated. I think the Marvel Cinematic universe is so far much stronger than anything FOX will ever do with X-Men. First Class I expect to be good, but I have a hard time seeing great. However, Thor and Cap both look great to me.

[Iron_Stark]

Secret Wars or bust. If they're going off timelines (Avengers forming early on) then they should tackle the granddaddy of all crossovers.

Besides its way too early to do Civil War.

[CoulsonFan]

If the Fantastic Four aren't going to revert to Marvel, there's no future for those characters outside of Marvel buying them back. Fox already used the two biggest FF stories they had. They announced their intent to do a remake, but that would just result in the same movie they already made. I wondered if they would try to adapt Ultimate Fantastic Four, which started out as something to do with the cast as kids going to some kind of super science Hogwarts school, but the Ultimate stuff is quite probably material that Fox don't even have the rights to.

The FF could be integrated into Marvel Studios' "MCU," but I don't know if Marvel are interested in paying what Fox would ask for them.

[Spider-Fan]

FOX can use ultimate material. It's not the same line or universe, but they're still the same characters.

[CoulsonFan]

Originally Posted by Spider-Fan

FOX can use ultimate material. It's not the same line or universe, but they're still the same characters.

I wonder because they have "Fantastic Four" and yet they don't have a whole lot of stuff you might assume they'd get with that--Black Panther, Inhumans, Skrulls, etc. The terms of that deal seem to be very specific, and they may be specific enough that a derivative work like an "Ultimate" book could be considered outside of its scope. Even if there's nothing stopping Fox from doing "teenage Fantastic Four," they wouldn't be able to use other characters or concepts from that book.

[Spider-Fan]

Originally Posted by CoulsonFan

I wonder because they have "Fantastic Four" and yet they don't have a whole lot of stuff you might assume they'd get with that--Black Panther, Inhumans, Skrulls, etc. The terms of that deal seem to be very specific, and they may be specific enough that a derivative work like an "Ultimate" book could be considered outside of its scope. Even if there's nothing stopping Fox from doing "teenage Fantastic Four," they wouldn't be able to use other characters or concepts from that book.

They have film rights to the Fantastic Four characters plus the villains and Galactus/Silver Surfer. This includes their ultimate versions. No matter what is different between 616 Reed and Ultimate Reed, one thing is the same: It is Reed under copyrights. There is no distinction. That'd be like saying you own the rights to Spider-Man, except Web of Spider-Man. Such a rule doesn't exist.

The only case of something like what you're outlining existing is the rights to Superboy not being owned by DC (I think that is how that currently works). But, the Seigal/Shuster estates won that in a lawsuit. Such a lawsuit has not come from FOX/Marvel in regard to FF film rights, and if it ever did, I highly doubt they'd ever seperate them.

[Wolvieboy17]

Also, Singer WAS in fact involved in the bad X films too, as much as fanboys hate to admit it. We was still a producer on X3 and Wolverine.

[Spider-Fan]

Doesn't list him on IMDB for being so.

[Sebastos]

My mistake, I meant to say after the Avengers...I could see IM3 and maybe Dr. Strange in 2013, with Iron Fist coming out in 2014, although 2013 is also a possibility. Found this awesome Iron Fist movie logo.

[CoulsonFan]

Originally Posted by Spider-Fan

They have film rights to the Fantastic Four characters plus the villains and Galactus/Silver Surfer. This includes their ultimate versions. No matter what is different between 616 Reed and Ultimate Reed, one thing is the same: It is Reed under copyrights. There is no distinction. That'd be like saying you own the rights to Spider-Man, except Web of Spider-Man. Such a rule doesn't exist.

The only case of something like what you're outlining existing is the rights to Superboy not being owned by DC. But, the Seigal/Shuster estates won that in a lawsuit. Such a lawsuit has not come from FOX/Marvel in regard to FF film rights, and if it ever did, I highly doubt they'd ever seperate them.

Everything that really distinguishes Fantastic Four from Ultimate Fantastic Four, apart from the age difference, is in the context they're placed in, and that context is largely made of characters and concepts Fox don't have. I'm pretty sure I've seen Feige, when questioned about FF, indicate that there's a list of every character Fox can exploit under the terms of their deal. If they had every character that was introduced as a FF villain or part of the FF supporting cast, they'd have Black Panther, they'd have the Skrulls, they'd have the Inhumans. The only characters we really know Fox can use are the ones they either used already or mentioned as possibilities for Fantastic Four 3. I think that list looks like:
Mr. Fantastic, Invisible Woman, Human Torch, The Thing, Doctor Doom, Galactus, Silver Surfer, Alicia Masters, Puppetmaster, probably the Mole Man.
That may be most of the list. Maybe they have a few others (Dragon Man? Diablo?)
It sounds like they don't have a lot of room to move around in with these characters.