The SuperHeroHype Forums  

Go Back   The SuperHeroHype Forums > X-Men > X-Men: Days of Future Past

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 06-29-2011, 05:53 PM   #676
Nell2ThaIzzay
Banned User
 
Nell2ThaIzzay's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Bay Area, California
Posts: 16,635
Default Re: "Only have one more new character" in sequel says Vaughn

Quote:
Originally Posted by XEdge View Post
Making Wolverine the "main" character of the X-men films wasn't exactly a bad idea. After all, it was important to establish an "outside" character through which the audience can view the world of the X-men.

However, making Wolverine the central and most important character, at the expense of pretty much all other characters WAS a mistake.

Even if Wolverine is the main character, there's NO reason why Cyclops couldn't have been established as the strong, "straight-arrow" team leader of the X-men. The field general who commands the team. The guy who all the young students respect. The guy who is perceived to be Xavier's next-in-line. And, the guy who is in a loving, stable relationship with Jean.

There's no reason why you couldn't have elevated the other characters to importance while still keeping Wolverine as the central character.

Indeed, making Cyclops a stronger character ( both as a leader and lover of Jean ) would have made the dynamics with Wolverine even better.

and that's another reason why I really want to see Jean and Scott "redone" in the First Class series. One reason why I enjoyed FC so much was that, aside from the brief Wolverine cameo, it actually placed emphasis on the OTHER mutants and characters in the X-men universe.
That's pretty much exactly what was established in X-Men.

Nell2ThaIzzay is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-30-2011, 05:13 AM   #677
psylockolussus
The X-Men 5 Advocator!
 
psylockolussus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: X-Mansion and the Baxter Building
Posts: 19,387
Default Re: "Only have one more new character" in sequel says Vaughn

Quote:
Originally Posted by Alexei Belyakov View Post
I literally jumped when I read this

That cameo got the biggest and greatest audience reaction during the five screenings I've attended since the film's release.

Something tells me its not Jackman you dislike - but old Wolvie.

That cameo was gold.
I agree!

__________________
X-MEN RI5E' MUTANT OF THE MONTH | JEAN GREY | PORTRAYED BY FAMKE JANNSEN
"All kind of things." - X1
"This is the only way" - X2
"Kill me before I kill someone else" - X3
"Where else would I be?" - X4
www.twitter.com/xmen5movie2018
psylockolussus is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-30-2011, 04:33 PM   #678
Angamb
Banned User
 
Angamb's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Spain
Posts: 13,348
Default Re: "Only have one more new character" in sequel says Vaughn

For those who keep saying that Wolverine being the main character was the best decision, the main reason the franchise worked well, and all of that....

If that was really true..... his own movie would have had a bigger boxoffice than what it got.

Spiderman, Batman, Ironman, even Thor had bigger boxoffices than Wolverine.

So put in your heads for once and for all that Wolverine isnt as successfull and important for the franchise as you use to think.

Angamb is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-30-2011, 05:32 PM   #679
henzINNIT
Side-Kick
 
henzINNIT's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 1,877
Default Re: "Only have one more new character" in sequel says Vaughn

Quote:
Originally Posted by Alexei Belyakov View Post
Those are facts that are only set in stone in the books.

I can ask a regular GA moviegoer "Who's the leader of The X-Men [films]?" and most of them will answer "Wolverine."

In the films, Wolverine is the main man. Bryan Singer and the studio made that (intelligent) decision when concocting X1.

Cyclops may be "the actual leader of the team and true love of Jean Grey" in the comics, but that doesn't mean it would have worked onscreen.

Singer himself talked alot about pushing for Logan and Jean's love affair. Why? Because unlike her relationship with Scott - it was interesting.

Again, you can't have Jimmy Marsden playing the protagonist of a major summer blockbuster in favor of Hugh Jackman just because he's "The actual leader of the X-Men". Not to mention he was never the actual leader in the first two films.

Jackman commanded all three films.

Those facts were established in the books AND the first two movies actually. Cyclops is clearly the field leader in the first film and Xavier's right hand man in X2 until he is captured. Logan himself tells Cyclops that Jean made her choice between the men and chose Scott. All of that is reversed in the 3rd, the badly written film that annoyed people. I've read very few X-Men comics so my issues are solely with the characters presented in the films.

Stop using Marsden's fame as a reason for his character being wiped clean for the story. He doesn't have to be the main character to be done justice. I never said he needed to sole focus, and I'm not naive enough to think he'd have a role any more substantial than Jackman. Singer's films found decent excuses for Wolverine to be a major role, the third did not.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Alexei Belyakov View Post

I don't follow your reasoning at all.

-At the end of X2 he chose to be with the X-Men. At the beginning of X3 he was playing the role of a teacher to the X-Men.

How is at making him go backwards?

He never has to learn to choose the team again in X3. He is in the team throughout the entire film. Again, how is at that a step backwards for him?

Some people argue that the problem with X3 was that Logan acted like Cyclops the whole time because the "real" Logan would just pick up and leave rather than playing a leadership role.

Now you argue the opposite.
He's not teaching the X-Men at the start of TLS. He's disrupting Storm's lesson, whilst "passing through". They are the character's own words, and it's further reinforced by painful Halle Berry dialogue throughout that Logan needs to "be with them". His whole arc is about this; and he even ditches the group to recover Jean mid-way through the film before he becomes the leader.

It appears you have mistaken Logan's screen dominance for a group affiliation. It's not surprising, he is everywhere in this film, as if he's absorbed several different roles (heh, my point exactly).


Quote:
Originally Posted by Alexei Belyakov View Post

I tell you, IMO, most people don't even know why they don't like Wolverine in X3. I actually rewatched it with the wife after I read some of the comments on this board and we both kept looking at each other like we missed something.

Wanting Cyclops to have command of the picture and not getting it is not a valid reason to dislike Wolverine.
I don't dislike Wolverine. He's a great character when he's used well.

henzINNIT is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-01-2011, 03:26 PM   #680
Alexei Belyakov
Banned User
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Posts: 2,494
Th Redface Re: "Only have one more new character" in sequel says Vaughn

Quote:
Originally Posted by Angamb View Post
For those who keep saying that Wolverine being the main character was the best decision, the main reason the franchise worked well, and all of that....

If that was really true..... his own movie would have had a bigger boxoffice than what it got.

Spiderman, Batman, Ironman, even Thor had bigger boxoffices than Wolverine.
Angamb, its pretty clear that you don't like Wolverine and that's cool, but the above statements are pretty inaccurate.

Thor will end up Domestically about a million shy of Origins' Domestic BO and when you adjust for inflation that's even less, even more when you factor in Thor's 3D/IMAX boost. You also have to remember that Origins made $20 Million more than Thor on opening weekend (even after the apparent bad taste X3 left in people's mouths).

So basically Thor, a much better film than Origins, still wasn't able to top it at the BO. But I thought it was his own movie?

Also, you're really gonna use movies like the Batmans, the Spider Mans and the Iron Mans to cut Wolverine down? Really?

NO X-Men movie, Bryan Singer or not, will ever break the $400 Million mark of Spider Man. Hell, probably not even the $300+ mark the Iron Mans seem to end up at.

As much as you don't like Wolverine, he's the reason you've gotten 5 X-Men movies the last 11 years, and arguably the reason you've gotten any really serious comic book movies at all.

What happened in X1 was synchronicity. All the right elements came together - budget, director, protagonist and story.

To suggest one of those elements wasn't key just because you dislike a character doesn't exactly add much weight to your argument.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Angamb View Post
So put in your heads for once and for all that Wolverine isnt as successfull and important for the franchise as you use to think.
X-Men First Class, the first non-Wolverine X-Men movie, will end up being the first comic book movie produced by FOX since [the horror of] Elektra that can't make back its production cost Domestically.

And we haven't exactly heard from Elektra ever since, now have we?

Look, I hate the Transformers movies - but that don't mean that just because I hate them I'm gonna go on a message board and suggest they haven't been successful at the BO. Nope.

Wolverine on his own, in a bad movie, made FOX more money than First Class did. I think that makes him pretty important and successful to the franchise.

Alexei Belyakov is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-01-2011, 03:34 PM   #681
Angamb
Banned User
 
Angamb's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Spain
Posts: 13,348
Default Re: "Only have one more new character" in sequel says Vaughn

Its not like I hate the character, alexei. Its just that I really think the world is interested in the x-men, not just in Wolverine.

- Have you seen the foreign gross to date of First Class?

It will surpass Wolverine foreign gross in this weekend or next week.

Without Hugh Jackman on the marketing, posters, and tv spots.

If you think this isnt relevant, there is no more to discuss, I guess.

Angamb is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-01-2011, 03:43 PM   #682
Alexei Belyakov
Banned User
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Posts: 2,494
Default Re: "Only have one more new character" in sequel says Vaughn

Quote:
Originally Posted by Angamb View Post
Its not like I hate the character, alexei. Its just that I really think the world is interested in the x-men, not just in Wolverine.

- Have you seen the foreign gross to date of First Class?

It will surpass Wolverine foreign gross in this weekend or next week.

Without Hugh Jackman on the marketing, posters, and tv spots.

If you think this isnt relevant, there is no more to discuss, I guess.
I replied to your numbers post in the BO thread. First Class will only end up about $10 Million ahead of Origins internationally (and behind $40 Million Domestically).

The Wolverine character/Hugh Jackman makes the world more interested in the X-Men. At least when it comes to movies (something tells me the Japan film will end up making more than First Class even if it gets stuck in June of 2013).

Alexei Belyakov is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-01-2011, 03:48 PM   #683
Angamb
Banned User
 
Angamb's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Spain
Posts: 13,348
Default Re: "Only have one more new character" in sequel says Vaughn

The movie will surpass Wolverine gross internationally, and you even say the world is more interested in the x-men because of Wolverine??

really??



no more to say.

Angamb is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-01-2011, 03:58 PM   #684
Alexei Belyakov
Banned User
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Posts: 2,494
Default Re: "Only have one more new character" in sequel says Vaughn

Quote:
Originally Posted by Angamb View Post
The movie will surpass Wolverine gross internationally, and you even say the world is more interested in the x-men because of Wolverine??

really??



no more to say.
First Class will surpass Origins by $10 Million (tops) internationally. After 2 years of inflation that's even less.

You ever hear of a movie called Fantastic Four: Rise of The Silver Surfer? FOX produced it about 5 years ago. It cost them $130 Million, made them $132 Million Domestically, and $157 Million Internationally.

Do you see a pattern forming?


Alexei Belyakov is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-01-2011, 04:17 PM   #685
Angamb
Banned User
 
Angamb's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Spain
Posts: 13,348
Default Re: "Only have one more new character" in sequel says Vaughn

Foreign market:

-X3 (2006): $224,997,093
-Wolverine-(2009): $193,179,707

3 years later, with the inflation, Wolverine made less than X3.
2 years later, with the inflation, First Class WILL surpass Wolverine.

anything to argue?

not.

Angamb is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-01-2011, 04:39 PM   #686
Alexei Belyakov
Banned User
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Posts: 2,494
Default Re: "Only have one more new character" in sequel says Vaughn

Quote:
Originally Posted by Angamb View Post
Foreign market:

-X3 (2006): $224,997,093
-Wolverine-(2009): $193,179,707

3 years later, with the inflation, Wolverine made less than X3.
2 years later, with the inflation, First Class WILL surpass Wolverine.

anything to argue?

not.
Angamb, Origins cost $60 Million less than X3.

You gotta take ALL these things into account.

First Class cost $10 Million more than Origins.

It made sooooo much less - 2 years later.

Again, First Class numbers heavily resemble this movie's:

Fantastic Four: Rise of The Silver Surfer (2007)

Budget: $130 Million

Domestic Gross: $132 Million

International Gross: $157 Million

You won't be seeing a sequel to that movie, and you won't be hearing alot of praise for its BO success - which when adjusting budget costs and inflation rates is very close to First Class'.

Origins made FOX a good profit. That's why we're getting a sequel - that will probably despite a June release in 2013 in between IM3 & Thor 2, will bank more than First Class.

Alexei Belyakov is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-01-2011, 04:42 PM   #687
Angamb
Banned User
 
Angamb's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Spain
Posts: 13,348
Default Re: "Only have one more new character" in sequel says Vaughn

dude, Im not talking about budgets, profit or comparitions with other franchises...

Im talking about the rest of the world STILL Interested in this franchise, even with a WHOLE NEW CAST.

Simply that.


Last edited by Angamb; 07-01-2011 at 04:53 PM.
Angamb is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-01-2011, 04:52 PM   #688
By your Command
Danger Room Technician
 
By your Command's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Sal Tlay Ka Siti
Posts: 813
Default Re: "Only have one more new character" in sequel says Vaughn

In defense to Angamb I have to say this:

The "Fantastic Four" franchise never really was a box-office hit, and it was definitely never critically beloved. So the while the money comparison might work, these are two completely different animals.

Things that work in favor of an "X-Men: First Class" Sequel:

- It recovered its money, and it did well after what was arguably the worst movie in the franchise ("XMO:W).

- It will do very well in the home-movie release as all X-Movies have done.

- It has been a hit with critics.

- It's one of two top grossing pictures FOX studios had this year so far.

- Its cast it's gonna explode in the next three years, it would be ridiculous on so many levels to let these future A-listers off their respective contracts.

Against "X-Men: First Class" sequel:

It didn't bring 80 or 90 Million more back to the bank.

__________________
WOLVERINE: "What "X-Men: The Last Stand" and "X-Men Origins: Wolverine" did to the franchise can't be undone"

BRYAN SINGER: "Don't be so sure..."
By your Command is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-01-2011, 05:06 PM   #689
Alexei Belyakov
Banned User
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Posts: 2,494
Default Re: "Only have one more new character" in sequel says Vaughn

Quote:
Originally Posted by By your Command View Post
In defense to Angamb I have to say this:

The "Fantastic Four" franchise never really was a box-office hit, and it was definitely never critically beloved. So the while the money comparison might work, these are two completely different animals.
Not true.

While it wasn't critically praised, that's not really detrimental with popcorn movies (Transformers).

The first film churned a hell of a profit with a production cost of $100 Million, a Domestic Gross of $157 Million and an International Gross of $178 Million. That's a better profit than Marvel's Thor and FOX's First Class.

Quality does not amount to quality in this business [unfortunately].

Quote:
Originally Posted by By your Command View Post
Things that work in favor of an "X-Men: First Class" Sequel:

- It recovered its money, and it did well after what was arguably the worst movie in the franchise ("XMO:W).
It won't make back its budget Domestically which is a kiss of death for popcorn movies. Not to mention Origins - the last [and terrible movie] made good money for the studio.

A sequel to First Class has alot of things against it.

Alexei Belyakov is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-01-2011, 05:13 PM   #690
By your Command
Danger Room Technician
 
By your Command's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Sal Tlay Ka Siti
Posts: 813
Default Re: "Only have one more new character" in sequel says Vaughn

Quote:
Originally Posted by Alexei Belyakov View Post
Not true.

While it wasn't critically praised, that's not really detrimental with popcorn movies (Transformers).

The first film churned a hell of a profit with a production cost of $100 Million, a Domestic Gross of $157 Million and an International Gross of $178 Million. That's a better profit than Marvel's Thor and FOX's First Class.

Quality does not amount to quality in this business [unfortunately].

It won't make back its budget Domestically which is a kiss of death for popcorn movies. Not to mention Origins - the last [and terrible movie] made good money for the studio.

A sequel to First Class has alot of things against it.
I think it has actually more things in favor than against, I actually listed some of them.

On the FF thing, I mean, the first movie did some money, the second didn't. It was never a hit. The X-Men movies have made money, this was a real bad year for Superhero Movies (financially speaking), but if you think about, this is the only Superhero Franchise in the hands of FOX, and its most recognizable. Defeat it's not an option, not without trying one more time.

__________________
WOLVERINE: "What "X-Men: The Last Stand" and "X-Men Origins: Wolverine" did to the franchise can't be undone"

BRYAN SINGER: "Don't be so sure..."
By your Command is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-01-2011, 08:25 PM   #691
Majik1387
Casting Extraordinaire ;D
 
Majik1387's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Theme Park central
Posts: 38,769
Default Re: "Only have one more new character" in sequel says Vaughn

Something I think some are forgetting in terms of First Class's box office is that it isn't finished in theaters, it's still making money.

Majik1387 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-01-2011, 08:36 PM   #692
Angamb
Banned User
 
Angamb's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Spain
Posts: 13,348
Default Re: "Only have one more new character" in sequel says Vaughn

yeah, lol

It will end around 350 ww.

hopefully more.

Angamb is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-01-2011, 08:48 PM   #693
Weadazoid
Side-Kick
 
Weadazoid's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: The Illadel
Posts: 4,030
Default Re: "Only have one more new character" in sequel says Vaughn

Wolverine had moments, but it failed in many ways

X 3 had moments but failed in many ways

Both deviated HEAVILY from what SInger established in his first 2 X men movies..........


Wolverine BUTCHERED the concept of Weapon X IMO, and really ruined seveal other characters



the Wolverine cameo in Origins while being a crowd pleaser, made like no sense..........


Essepcially considering SInger was at the helm of this and had input into it..... so they walk into a bar to meet WOlverine and he tells them get the F out


wow....really..... considering clearly both Mags and Charles seemed to know ALOT more about him in X Men and X Men 2 it really made no sense.



THor is a bigger hit internationally then any X Men movie...... so lets not go there

__________________
100 chimps working in unison to create the next great American Novel... It was the best of times it..... it was the blurst of times??? You have to love Mr. Burns.
Weadazoid is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-01-2011, 09:42 PM   #694
RachelDawes
Gotham Attorney
 
RachelDawes's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: In a courtroom or tied up in a warehouse
Posts: 8,884
Default Re: "Only have one more new character" in sequel says Vaughn

Quote:
Originally Posted by Alexei Belyakov View Post
It won't make back its budget Domestically which is a kiss of death for popcorn movies. Not to mention Origins - the last [and terrible movie] made good money for the studio.

A sequel to First Class has alot of things against it.
XFC cost $135 million after taxes. It should end its domestic run with more than that.

__________________
RIP Heath Ledger, the Best Joker Ever.
RachelDawes is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-01-2011, 10:34 PM   #695
BMM
Side-Kick
 
BMM's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Posts: 7,443
Default Re: "Only have one more new character" in sequel says Vaughn

Quote:
Originally Posted by Weadazoid View Post
Wolverine had moments, but it failed in many ways

X 3 had moments but failed in many ways

Both deviated HEAVILY from what SInger established in his first 2 X men movies..........


Wolverine BUTCHERED the concept of Weapon X IMO, and really ruined seveal other characters



the Wolverine cameo in Origins while being a crowd pleaser, made like no sense..........


Essepcially considering SInger was at the helm of this and had input into it..... so they walk into a bar to meet WOlverine and he tells them get the F out


wow....really..... considering clearly both Mags and Charles seemed to know ALOT more about him in X Men and X Men 2 it really made no sense.
How does that make no sense? It's the 1960s. After first using Cerebro, Xavier already finds Wolverine... and it is still decades before Wolverine does anything noteworthy, like encounter Stryker, join Team X, or undergo the adamanitum bonding process. If this film were set in the 1980s, you might have more of a point. And just because Wolverine tells Erik and Xavier to f--- themselves, and they leave, doesn't mean Xavier doesn't know anything about him yet. He obviously knows Wolverine's a mutant, and probably has some idea of what he's capable. That's not a bad start.

BMM is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-01-2011, 11:32 PM   #696
Nell2ThaIzzay
Banned User
 
Nell2ThaIzzay's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Bay Area, California
Posts: 16,635
Default Re: "Only have one more new character" in sequel says Vaughn

Quote:
Originally Posted by Weadazoid View Post
Wolverine had moments, but it failed in many ways

X 3 had moments but failed in many ways

Both deviated HEAVILY from what SInger established in his first 2 X men movies..........


Wolverine BUTCHERED the concept of Weapon X IMO, and really ruined seveal other characters



the Wolverine cameo in Origins while being a crowd pleaser, made like no sense..........


Essepcially considering SInger was at the helm of this and had input into it..... so they walk into a bar to meet WOlverine and he tells them get the F out


wow....really..... considering clearly both Mags and Charles seemed to know ALOT more about him in X Men and X Men 2 it really made no sense.



THor is a bigger hit internationally then any X Men movie...... so lets not go there
I don't know if I could disagree with a post more than I disagree with this one.

Nell2ThaIzzay is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-01-2011, 11:41 PM   #697
Quetzal
Side-Kick
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Posts: 301
Default Re: "Only have one more new character" in sequel says Vaughn

I heard ~ 120 after tax rebates

But even with 135, slight domestic profit.

Not much though albeit.

Quetzal is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 02:40 PM.

monitoring_string = "dee460792f24517621e3ca080805de7e"
Contact Us - Mobile - SuperHeroHype - ComingSoon.net - Shock Till You Drop - Lost Password - Clear Cookies - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service - Top - AdChoices


Powered by vBulletin®
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
SuperHeroHype.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. 2014 All Rights Reserved.