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Old 07-03-2011, 03:58 PM   #26
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Default Re: Optimus Prime's characterization (Spoilers)

Keep in mind, Megatron (along with Starscream and Sentinel Prime) weren't exactly diabolical. Each one had their own agenda for their race and planet. Up until the final film, humans were never targets.

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Old 07-03-2011, 04:12 PM   #27
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Default Re: Optimus Prime's characterization (Spoilers)

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Originally Posted by DoomsdayApex View Post
Keep in mind, Megatron (along with Starscream and Sentinel Prime) weren't exactly diabolical. Each one had their own agenda for their race and planet. Up until the final film, humans were never targets.
Exactly. Sentinel Prime saw himself as a god over humans, and believed he had the right to enslave them. He was the one who taught Optimus that freedom is the right of all sentient beings, and Optimus knew that he was not the same Sentinel that he once knew and respected. He was a Decepticon now, and it was Optimus Prime's responsibility as the leader of the Autobots to destroy him. As long as Sentinel lived, humans would never be safe.

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Old 07-03-2011, 04:20 PM   #28
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Default Re: Optimus Prime's characterization (Spoilers)

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Originally Posted by Optimus_Prime_ View Post
Optimus Prime carries a giant shotgun
That was Megatron's giant shotgun.

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Old 07-03-2011, 05:46 PM   #29
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Default Re: Optimus Prime's characterization (Spoilers)

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Exactly. Sentinel Prime saw himself as a god over humans, and believed he had the right to enslave them. He was the one who taught Optimus that freedom is the right of all sentient beings, and Optimus knew that he was not the same Sentinel that he once knew and respected. He was a Decepticon now, and it was Optimus Prime's responsibility as the leader of the Autobots to destroy him. As long as Sentinel lived, humans would never be safe.

With the final Decepticon threat eliminated (Megatron, Starscream, Shockwave, Barricade, Soundwave, etc all K.I.A.) and Cybertron ceasing to exist, what could Sentinel Prime be capable of?

Optimus (along with the Autobots) and humanity could have powered down Sentinel, and imprisoned him for eternality for his crimes.

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Old 07-03-2011, 06:25 PM   #30
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Default Re: Optimus Prime's characterization (Spoilers)

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Optimus killed a ton of red shirt Decepticons in War Dawn in season 2 though.
Thats actually debatable, thou I tend to look at it the way you do, fact is its possible those guys survived, its also possible they were drones.

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Funny thing is none of those guys were killed

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Old 07-03-2011, 08:47 PM   #31
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Default Re: Optimus Prime's characterization (Spoilers)

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Originally Posted by The Chibi Kiriyama View Post
That was Megatron's giant shotgun.
I'm talking about the original toy.
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Thats actually debatable, thou I tend to look at it the way you do, fact is its possible those guys survived, its also possible they were drones.
I don't think it's ever implied they survived, although Transformers frequently have the "I'm a robot get out of jail free card" they can pull when they are "killed". They probably were drones to be sure, but it's about as far as the cartoon could go on killing in a children's show.
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Funny thing is none of those guys were killed
After watching the movie a billion times I've always taken these as "implied non-committal deaths". The Autobots outnumber the Decepticons toy line wise, so when Optimus needed to "kill" some Decepticons they simply showed "deaths" and then didn't commit to them for the sake of the toyline...if that makes sense. Considering Hasbro wasn't discontinuing those Decepticons they couldn't be killed in great number, so they showed a few Decepticons getting shot just to balance the battle a bit.

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Old 07-03-2011, 08:59 PM   #32
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Default Re: Optimus Prime's characterization (Spoilers)

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I don't think it's ever implied they survived, although Transformers frequently have the "I'm a robot get out of jail free card" they can pull when they are "killed".
thats kind of what I'm pointing to.

We have seen a few TF's taken apart, blown apart, decapetated and so much more and still live.
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After watching the movie a billion times I've always taken these as "implied non-committal deaths". The Autobots outnumber the Decepticons toy line wise, so when Optimus needed to "kill" some Decepticons they simply showed "deaths" and then didn't commit to them for the sake of the toyline...if that makes sense. Considering Hasbro wasn't discontinuing those Decepticons they couldn't be killed in great number, so they showed a few Decepticons getting shot just to balance the battle a bit.
I cant completely agree with you there.

Just about all the Decepticons Prime shot when looking for Megatron were seen running into Astrotrain under their own power.I'm sure Hasbro intended to kill most of those characters.....but the way I see it, its obvious they didnt want their "hero" being the one that killed them.

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Old 07-06-2011, 02:33 AM   #33
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Default Re: Optimus Prime's characterization (Spoilers)

I think I covered this on the review thread. Once Optimus had the chance to take the kid gloves off in TFTM, he was once ruthless SOB. Ordering the Dinobots to destroy Devastator, mowing down every Decepticon that got in his way, and confronting Megatron with the intent to kill him. And had he not blown his chance by wasting time mocking a pleading Megatron, he would've done to him what Bay's Optimus did to Megatron and Sentinel. It seems Bay's Optimus just watched TFTM on the break and got a little genre savvy with traitorous scum.

Like the 10th Doctor would put it: "No second chances. I'm that nice of a man."

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Old 07-06-2011, 05:46 PM   #34
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Default Re: Optimus Prime's characterization (Spoilers)

I don't mind Optimus killing Decepticons in battle. It's Optimus being an executioner that gets me.

Optimus talking to Megatron and Sentinal Prime at the end: "You will not stop until you rule in tyranny and humans are enslaved. I have read the humans' comics; you are the Jokers, but I am no Batman to let you have yet another chance" - BANG BANG.

Hehehe.

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Old 07-06-2011, 06:12 PM   #35
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I don't mind Optimus killing Decepticons in battle. It's Optimus being an executioner that gets me.
He was going to execute Megatron in TFTM.

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Old 07-06-2011, 06:45 PM   #36
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Default Re: Optimus Prime's characterization (Spoilers)

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He was going to execute Megatron in TFTM.
Thats actually debatable.

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Old 07-06-2011, 07:03 PM   #37
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Default Re: Optimus Prime's characterization (Spoilers)

Based on what? All the dialogue in the scene pointed to killing intent for Optimus.

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Old 07-06-2011, 07:08 PM   #38
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Based on what? All the dialogue in the scene pointed to killing intent for Optimus.
Based on the fact that when he had the chance he didnt take it.
\
Based on the fact that he didnt lkill a single Decepticon on his run to Megatron.

Based on all the times he had the same chance and still didnt follow trew.

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Old 07-06-2011, 07:21 PM   #39
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Based on the fact that when he had the chance he didnt take it.
Because someone got in the way.

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Based on the fact that he didnt lkill a single Decepticon on his run to Megatron.
Which tells us that Decepticons are tough bastards (Joker Immunity's a *****), not that Optimus wasn't trying to kill them. Putting aside the fact that even the softest lovetap amounted to a lethat hit in TFTM for some reason, those weren't exactly Kira Yamato-shots Prime was taking (except for the ones he ran over in truck form). Are you saying that he can order his men to kill, but can't have the conviction to carry through himself?

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Based on all the times he had the same chance and still didnt follow trew.
Optimus pretty much said that time it was for real, and TFTM was as final a stage to do it.

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Old 07-06-2011, 07:31 PM   #40
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Default Re: Optimus Prime's characterization (Spoilers)

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Because someone got in the way.
I suggest you rewatch the film.

Prime had close to 1/2 a minute [23 seconds to be exact] from the time he grabed his gun to the time Hotrod interfered.

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Which tells us that Decepticons are tough bastards
What itb tells us is that Hasbro didnt want their heros killing anyone.

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Are you saying that he can order his men to kill, but can't have the conviction to carry through himself?
Trew out the whole film, not a single Decepticon was killed by asn Autobot.
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Optimus pretty much said that time it was for real, and TFTM was as final a stage to do it.
His dialog contradicts his actions.

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Old 07-06-2011, 07:53 PM   #41
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I suggest you rewatch the film.

Prime had close to 1/2 a minute [23 seconds to be exact] from the time he grabed his gun to the time Hotrod interfered.
He picked an inappropriate time to chastize Megatron for prostrating himself. How does that change what his intent was, what his men were practically goading him to do?

If somebody interfered when Optimus was going to execute Sentinel, does that mean he wasn't going to kill him?

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What itb tells us is that Hasbro didnt want their heros killing anyone.
Trew out the whole film, not a single Decepticon was killed by asn Autobot.
Villains living in spite of the heroes' attempts to kill them doesn't change the fact that the heroes WERE going to kill them.

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His dialog contradicts his actions.
No, it doesn't.

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Old 07-06-2011, 09:36 PM   #42
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Default Re: Optimus Prime's characterization (Spoilers)

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He picked an inappropriate time to chastize Megatron for prostrating himself. How does that change what his intent was, what his men were practically goading him to do?
As I already said, its not the first time Optimus had Meg's in that potion, its not the first time his men were "practically goading him to do it".

The fact that he hesitated is more in line with g1 Primes character, and its likely he would have granted mercy, like he had done before.
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If somebody interfered when Optimus was going to execute Sentinel, does that mean he wasn't going to kill him?
Irrelevant.

They are 2 different characters.
Quote:
Villains living in spite of the heroes' attempts to kill them doesn't change the fact that the heroes WERE going to kill them.
Theres no realy evidence they even tried to kill any cons.
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No, it doesn't.
He didnt fire when he had the chance, his actions do contradict his dialog.They indicate he had doubts.

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Old 07-07-2011, 01:44 PM   #43
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Default Re: Optimus Prime's characterization (Spoilers)

Wow, people are arguing about Optimus being too brutal all across the WWW. It was harsh in the final battle in Chicago, but he had to do this. Megatron showed no signs that he was going to offer a truce, and he was very weak, and still could kick ass. Optimus couldn't take the chance. The same with Sentinel. He was too powerful, too knowledgeable, but warped in a psychotic mind set that would have been unsafe. Optimus had enough of the treachery, time to end it. If he was really as brutal as you all say he is, he would have killed Wheelie for simply being a Decepticon, but he doesn't.

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Old 07-07-2011, 01:49 PM   #44
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Wow, people are arguing about Optimus being too brutal all across the WWW. It was harsh in the final battle in Chicago, but he had to do this. Megatron showed no signs that he was going to offer a truce
Except for the fact that he said. "We need a truce." >_>

The guy even lowered his gun.

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Old 07-07-2011, 02:00 PM   #45
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Except for the fact that he said. "We need a truce." >_>

The guy even lowered his gun.
No he didn't, he was mocking Optimus, or did you miss that in the film when he says "What would you do without me!" He was mocking and making fun of Optimus at how his own mentor has abandoned him, Optimus had enough.

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Old 07-07-2011, 02:03 PM   #46
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Are you saying he didn't suggest the truce, or that he didn't intend to actually uphold it? Because if you mean the former, you need to watch the Movie again.

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Old 07-07-2011, 05:22 PM   #47
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Default Re: Optimus Prime's characterization (Spoilers)

You guys have a serious problem with Prime being a soldier, don't you? He's the leader of a military that is earth's only (and pretty much last) line of defense against something that they could never take out themselves.

Prime was PISSED. He had seen the war from his planet spill onto an innocent planet's land, granted, the humans in charge of the space exploration lied to the Autobots, but Megatron crashed landed a long, LONG time before NASA existed.

Sentinel also killed one of his best friends, in THE MOST cold blood of actions, point blank with a extremely high powered shotgun, and let him die there...I'd say he was really fed up with the fact that he kept reiterating "I won't stand by and let you take the boy, or his fellow man ______ (insert any decepticon's name"

Also, Prime capturing and basically handcuffing decepticons? Are you effing kidding me? No offense, but either you're seriously hopelessly in love with a flawed justice system and promoting a over idealized, hopeless romantic "cops n robbers" or you're just really put off by doing what NEEDS to be done.

As I recall it was the decepticons who were mercilessly leading the autobots to horrific execution, not the other way around. Prime was tired of having the last of his kind mutilated, maimed and torn apart for some stupid idealogy the decepticons chased after and did what he needed to do.

Haters gonna hate, and Optimus Prime is gonna be Prime.

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Old 07-07-2011, 06:55 PM   #48
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Default Re: Optimus Prime's characterization (Spoilers)

I havent seen the movie yet but I do have serious issue with people thinking Prime is too brutal in these movies, he gets pretty brutal at times in the comics as well you know? In some of the more recent comics, he killed Thunderwing and Glavatron (although he has since come back) and in All Hail Megatron, WOULD have killed Megatron if it was not for Starscreams intervention.

Also in another recent comic, when the Autobots were fighting Sixshot, he told them all to remove all safety protocols from their weapons to put him down. It has always been that when Prime needs too, he gets his hands dirty and puts people down who need to be.

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Old 07-11-2011, 08:29 AM   #49
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As an ex-soldier and long time Prime-fan, I must say I did'nt like how Optimus commited war-crimes. Excecuting unarmed and defeated soldier like that is way out of character. Did not like it, like killing a prisoner of war. Although understandable (the impact a war has on a man makes them do awfull acts), I always expect Optimus to be a leader who does'nt lose his freakin' mind like that. Then again, he's alien with different ethics than a human-soldier.

That is not the hero Optimus I played with 20 years ago. So I like the more "pacifist forced to pick up a gun" G1-version over this. Still had a great time with the movie.

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Old 07-11-2011, 08:48 AM   #50
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As an ex-soldier and long time Prime-fan, I must say I did'nt like how Optimus commited war-crimes. Excecuting unarmed and defeated soldier like that is way out of character. Did not like it, like killing a prisoner of war. Although understandable (the impact a war has on a man makes them do awfull acts), I always expect Optimus to be a leader who does'nt lose his freakin' mind like that. Then again, he's alien with different ethics than a human-soldier.

That is not the hero Optimus I played with 20 years ago. So I like the more "pacifist forced to pick up a gun" G1-version over this. Still had a great time with the movie.
he's changed
two movies ago he was one way, years later he's this way.
who'd have thunk.

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