What should come next? Transformers 4 or a reboot?

[bell110]

Originally Posted by Optimus_Prime_

That's ultimately the problem here. People say Bay makes them 'turn off their brain' as a knock against what he made, yet those same people will happily do just that to enjoy an episode of Transformers, specifically G1, which was by and large crap sprinkled with a few tolerable and exciting moments. IMO Bay has some issues, but what he produced was generally on par with the source material. I've always thought his sense of humor was his general drawback. Not being able to distinguish between the humor that is necessary in an action movie to balance the light and dark and the humor that is necessary in The Hangover. Some of Bay's scenes are downright hilarious except they're incredibly awkward because of how out of place they are in the general setting of the movie. For example in Live Free or Die Hard Bruce Willis tells Kevin Smith "how about I beat you to death in your own house". This line is a throwaway piece of dialogue that breaks the tension and gives you a chuckle, but it's perfectly appropriate for his character. In Bayformers you get guy getting tased in the nuts, which is funny, but inappropriate for the setting. You can still add humor to scenes like those but it has to mesh well with the general tone of things around it.

Originally Posted by Optimus_Prime_

Most Transformers fans are critical of G1. Most fans also hate Armada and the very weird Japanese cartoons, so no, it's not that, it's that most Transformers understand that Transformers is not oscar worthy material, and there is no reason to believe everything is or can be. This is why I hate critics, they have no filter usually to distinguish between a film whose goal it is to entertain (or make you laugh, or make you frightened) and those whose goal it is to win oscars. Transformers goal has always been to sell toys, and the fact that you can 'turn off your brain' and enjoy TFTM, which you admit is a shallow little toy commercial, but hold Bay to this extremely high standard is hypocritical. It's a classic fanboy mentality of seeing any change good or bad as an afront to your pet property.

I like how you skipped over this:

Originally Posted by bell110

They spent millions of dollars to bring these guys to the big screen, yet they made them "every bit as good" as a toy commercial from 25 years ago. That says alot about Bayformers.

It shouldn't be "on par" with TFTM, let alone worse.

And can you please stop with the Oscar talk. It's a strawman arguement.

I don't believe you when you say most Transformers fans are critical of the G1 cartoon.

What exactly are you a fan of regarding Transformers? You really do not seem to like them other than Bayformers.

[roach]

From Don Murphy's site:

What happens next? Certainly not a reboot. We haven't lost the Transformers. They didn't grow up or become expensive like Toby Maguire. I don't know what happens next. I'm pretty sure there will be a second trilogy. I am pretty sure it will kick ass. And I am pretty sure some of you will hate it because it wasn't all bots."

[def28]

Hahaha. How about 50/50 for screen time with humans and bots at least?

Bring on Galvatron!

[WarBlade]

Originally Posted by Hotwire

I imagine most of us were around 10 or so when TFTM was released. That being said, we all thought it was the most awesome movie ever. As Optimus Prime points out though, it had huge problems. At age 10, we couldn't see them. Now, at 35, we choose not to see them, because when we watch it, or remember it, we're 10 again, and we don't care.

No, we didn't "all" think it was the most awesome movie ever. I hated it. I recall my friends' reactions ranging from dislike to disappointed acceptance as well.

[Optimus_Prime_]

Originally Posted by bell110

It shouldn't be "on par" with TFTM, let alone worse.

And can you please stop with the Oscar talk. It's a strawman arguement.

But...that's...what...he's...adapting.

Would it be My Little Pony if it were all dark and gothic? Would it be good to turn the Flash into Se7en meets The Matrix (as was suggested)? No! Transformers is a 22 minute toy commercial that is extremely hokey, incredibly nerdy and more than a little silly. I know it must be hard to watch something you thought was brilliant at 10 and realize it was more than a little stupid to an adult but that's life. I would rather have a Transformers movie that...ya'know...seems like Transformers than some brooding, serious, nerd fantasy that tries to turn it into Lord of the Rings. I know fanboys think that fan fiction they write that tries to make Silverhawks seem like The Shawshank Redemption is good, but I'm sorry, it's rubbish and no one wants to see it. Most people who were familiar with Transformers must have liked the movie because, I'm sorry, money talks and these movies made a sh**load of it.

I don't believe you when you say most Transformers fans are critical of the G1 cartoon.

Okay, don't. Generation 1 cartoon is widely regarded as amongst the worst of the fictions, not the best. Heck, most of the plot heavy elements that inform the mythos today like "The Twelve", "Protoforms", "Leige Maximo", and "The Fallen" (not invented by Bay - Simon Furman invented the Fallen) come from the comics, not the cartoon. The cartoon is really a very small piece of the Transformers mythos, and for a film that roughly took most of it's bearings from that cartoon it did a relatively good job of replicating it.

What exactly are you a fan of regarding Transformers? You really do not seem to like them other than Bayformers.

The Toys original. I have a good 300 or so Generation 1 toys (which I may be selling soon), and I liked the cartoons FOR WHAT THEY WERE. Which is ultimately you're problem here, you want the movies to reflect the cartoon yet you simultaneously want them to somehow, by some cosmic black magic, be a super-serious, super-intelligent, super-story telling version of the cartoon which would, in effect, be a poor adaptation of the cartoon. I'm really amused as how you cannot understand how someone without fanboy glasses would view of show or comic about anthropormorphic robots who are caricatures of stereotypical people fighting each other.

[Optimus_Prime_]

Originally Posted by def28

Hahaha. How about 50/50 for screen time with humans and bots at least?

Bring on Galvatron!

I think next time they need to give the villains more to do other than just attack humans. I liked what Bay did this time with Laserbeak, but perhaps next time Dylan should return and act like a "Spike" for the Decepticons so the Decepticons have someone they can interact with throughout the course of the film.

[Hotwire]

Let me try an example of what Optimus is getting at.

Imagine if the Adam West version of Batman, was the original. Let's make that our G1. Now, would Batman Begins be a good adaptation of that? Not even close.

[Hotwire]

Originally Posted by WarBlade

No, we didn't "all" think it was the most awesome movie ever. I hated it. I recall my friends' reactions ranging from dislike to disappointed acceptance as well.

Fair enough. A lot of us though it was the most awesome movie ever. If you don't believe that, we can start a poll.

[Chris B]

Personally, I'm leaning toward a reboot. Granted, I think the more obscure Decepticon leaders getting some attention could be interesting. Its just that I'd hate not seeing Megatron, Starscream, Soundwave, and Shockwave around.

I think the key would just to try and tell a new story. For starters, I think they'd be better off skipping all of the arrival stuff like 'Prime' and IDW did.

[Thundercrack85]

Revive Megatron again? Third time's the charm?

As for a reboot, it's not like there's a lack of villains. Starscream could hold a movie if he was properly written. They could also try a human villain.

[MessiahDecoy123]

Originally Posted by Hotwire

Let me try an example of what Optimus is getting at.

Imagine if the Adam West version of Batman, was the original. Let's make that our G1. Now, would Batman Begins be a good adaptation of that? Not even close.

Batman Begins is a decent adaptation of the Batman comics and there are plenty of G1 comics to draw from for a TF movie.

[bell110]

Originally Posted by Optimus_Prime_

But...that's...what...he's...adapting.

Would it be My Little Pony if it were all dark and gothic? Would it be good to turn the Flash into Se7en meets The Matrix (as was suggested)? No! Transformers is a 22 minute toy commercial that is extremely hokey, incredibly nerdy and more than a little silly. I know it must be hard to watch something you thought was brilliant at 10 and realize it was more than a little stupid to an adult but that's life. I would rather have a Transformers movie that...ya'know...seems like Transformers than some brooding, serious, nerd fantasy that tries to turn it into Lord of the Rings. I know fanboys think that fan fiction they write that tries to make Silverhawks seem like The Shawshank Redemption is good, but I'm sorry, it's rubbish and no one wants to see it. Most people who were familiar with Transformers must have liked the movie because, I'm sorry, money talks and these movies made a sh**load of it.


Okay, don't. Generation 1 cartoon is widely regarded as amongst the worst of the fictions, not the best. Heck, most of the plot heavy elements that inform the mythos today like "The Twelve", "Protoforms", "Leige Maximo", and "The Fallen" (not invented by Bay - Simon Furman invented the Fallen) come from the comics, not the cartoon. The cartoon is really a very small piece of the Transformers mythos, and for a film that roughly took most of it's bearings from that cartoon it did a relatively good job of replicating it.

The Toys original. I have a good 300 or so Generation 1 toys (which I may be selling soon), and I liked the cartoons FOR WHAT THEY WERE. Which is ultimately you're problem here, you want the movies to reflect the cartoon yet you simultaneously want them to somehow, by some cosmic black magic, be a super-serious, super-intelligent, super-story telling version of the cartoon which would, in effect, be a poor adaptation of the cartoon. I'm really amused as how you cannot understand how someone without fanboy glasses would view of show or comic about anthropormorphic robots who are caricatures of stereotypical people fighting each other.

No, he's not adapting TFTM.

I don't know what you mean by that Flash analogy.

It made ****s load of money because it's a pretty film, not because people familiar with Transformers liked it.

I don't know what you think "seems like Transformers", and how that excuses bad movies.

I don't care about the comics because comics are silly and are for kids.

No, I don't want "super" anything. I just want "good". Again, I think it's lack of imagination that you don't think Transformers can have an actual good story just because it's based on a cartoon.

Originally Posted by Hotwire

Let me try an example of what Optimus is getting at.

Imagine if the Adam West version of Batman, was the original. Let's make that our G1. Now, would Batman Begins be a good adaptation of that? Not even close.

We had that. It was Batman Forever and Batman and Robin. Obviously, if you can take a comic book character and make a good movie out of it, you can do the same thing with cartoon characters. I assume Optimus also loves Batman and Robin because, hey, it's based on a silly comic.

[psylockolussus]

TF4 without Bay and Shia

[Hotwire]

Originally Posted by bell110

I don't care about the comics because comics are silly and are for kids.

So was the original cartoon.

We had that. It was Batman Forever and Batman and Robin. Obviously, if you can take a comic book character and make a good movie out of it, you can do the same thing with cartoon characters. I assume Optimus also loves Batman and Robin because, hey, it's based on a silly comic.

You missed my point. What I was getting at, is that Nolan's are Batman in name only, if you compare them to the TV show.

[def28]

Originally Posted by Optimus_Prime_

I think next time they need to give the villains more to do other than just attack humans. I liked what Bay did this time with Laserbeak, but perhaps next time Dylan should return and act like a "Spike" for the Decepticons so the Decepticons have someone they can interact with throughout the course of the film.

Wouldnt mind that. They definitely need a new scheme for the Decpeticons. Even if the plot was just The Decepticons wanting to wipeout the Autobots for good I would probably be cool with it. They will need a new main villain and I know most people say Unicron will never work but I have a feeling someone will try it sooner or later. Im actually surprised Bay never went for it. Thought he would be all for it. Bigger explosions haha.

[Crockett]

I wonder how long we'll have to wait for new TF movie, they better not rush it. A fresh start for the next movie, that's one what I'm hoping for.

[bell110]

Originally Posted by Hotwire

So was the original cartoon.

You missed my point. What I was getting at, is that Nolan's are Batman in name only, if you compare them to the TV show.

I was being sarastic about that. I find it weird that people excuse Transformers for being only a silly cartoon for kids when comics are silly and for kids as well.

[SPIDER-MAN-ROX]

Bring back Megan as a Pretender to cause trouble between Sam & Carly.

[Superhero 101]

I WANT to see BEAST WARS!!!!!

How kick@$$ would that be no humans just neanderthals running around doing their thing and more robots!!!

[Hotwire]

Originally Posted by Superhero 101

I WANT to see BEAST WARS!!!!!

How kick@$$ would that be no humans just neanderthals running around doing their thing and more robots!!!

Will never happen.

[Tony Stark]

This franchise needs a total reboot, with a mature director, who takes the source material seriously and who can make this into a franchise fans can be proud of, instead of the male geek's "Twilight". (i.e. a movie that is successful financially but is a complete joke and has no value beyond the fanboy dynamic).

[chrisguyver]

Originally Posted by Tony Stark

This franchise needs a total reboot, with a mature director, who takes the source material seriously and who can make this into a franchise fans can be proud of, instead of the male geek's "Twilight". (i.e. a movie that is successful financially but is a complete joke and has no value beyond the fanboy dynamic).

do you not get it. It will never happen these movie have made to much money for them to risk trying something new. These movie weren't made for just the fans and will never will be. I hope it stays the same humans and all.

[Thundercrack85]

I can't see them making a Beast Wars movie. I could however see them using beast transformers. I'm surprised they haven't done so yet.

[TheIncredibleSk]

As a person who loved Transformers 1 and 3, Im hoping Speilberg comes on to direct 4. Also I good with the human/bot ratio. The building scene is my favorite part of the movie.

[MessiahDecoy123]

Originally Posted by chrisguyver

do you not get it. It will never happen these movie have made to much money for them to risk trying something new. These movie weren't made for just the fans and will never will be. I hope it stays the same humans and all.

But if they reboot the franchise why would they do the same thing as the previous trilogy?