What would you rather see next - FIRST CLASS 2 or X4?

[Nell2ThaIzzay]

Originally Posted by blueserenity

Untrue. I've never read a single comic book and I hated TLS exclusively for being a terrible movie. My friends have as much experience with comic books as I do and share my dislike of the film. Things like "what's canon" or what X-Men was in it was never a factor for me. I just liked the first two movies. I'd venture that the majority of people who see these movies aren't comic fans. They probably get the gist of the storyline ("it's about mutants") or may have watched one of the old cartoons. But not comic book fans.

To that end, it'd be illogical and frustrating to retcon stuff with resurrection and such. The comics offer multiple simultaneous universes, right? And there must be hundreds or thousands of volumes. There's a lot of time to give resurrection weight and credibility or make a character go on a journey to achieve that power blah blah blah in a comic. But if you have 2 hours to tell a story you can't quite do that. And if you just snap your fingers and go BOOM, mind swapped! or BOOM, resurrected!, death becomes irrelevant. If THAT happens, how can you worry about the characters?

I don't give TLS much thought, it was a terrible movie that I walked out on when I saw it in theatres 5 years ago and that was that. But when presented with the idea that it could have a sequel vs First Class, I just have to say something :P

And I've never met a person outside of the interwebz that takes such issue with X-Men: The Last Stand. Most general audience members don't have much issue with the movie, and in fact I've had plenty tell me to "get over it" (i.e.: the changes from the source material like Cyclops dying) because the movie was good.

These X-Men movies don't mean nearly as much to the mainstream movie audience as they do to interwebz X-Men fans. To them, it's just another comic book movie. They aren't worried about Cyclops dying, Phoenix not being 100% accurate to the comics, or Brett Ratner pacing his movie fast.

[henzINNIT]

I love talking about "most people" and what they think.

[Angamb]

cant we vote for Third Class instead of Second Class?

[ciscostudent561]

lol did this guy just say most people liked the last stand? lmao no

[Nell2ThaIzzay]

Believe it or not, not everyone has the same tastes as interwebz fanboys.

[esotaric]

Originally Posted by Nell2ThaIzzay

Believe it or not, not everyone has the same tastes as interwebz fanboys.

This, if DVD sales for first class goes well, the general audience might be more interested in this "prequel trilogy" if FC sequel ever gets made that is.

[nite-owl]

X-Men 4

[blueserenity]

Originally Posted by Nell2ThaIzzay

And I've never met a person outside of the interwebz that takes such issue with X-Men: The Last Stand. Most general audience members don't have much issue with the movie, and in fact I've had plenty tell me to "get over it" (i.e.: the changes from the source material like Cyclops dying) because the movie was good.

These X-Men movies don't mean nearly as much to the mainstream movie audience as they do to interwebz X-Men fans. To them, it's just another comic book movie. They aren't worried about Cyclops dying, Phoenix not being 100% accurate to the comics, or Brett Ratner pacing his movie fast.

You and I are destined to do this forever.

Also you're arguing my exact point in the second paragraph. TLS is disliked for being a bad movie, not because "you can't kill off Cyclops!!" or whatever. I am not an internet fanboy and neither is anyone I know (at least not for X-Men). I just really liked the first two movies, hated the two that followed, and loved the third one. My feelings on each one are mercifully devoid of comic and even cartoon attachments.

Like I've said before though, they've really shot themselves in the foot killing off Patrick Stewart's character. His presence in the films was probably a selling point.

[Nell2ThaIzzay]

Originally Posted by blueserenity

You and I are destined to do this forever.

Also you're arguing my exact point in the second paragraph. TLS is disliked for being a bad movie, not because "you can't kill off Cyclops!!" or whatever. I am not an internet fanboy and neither is anyone I know (at least not for X-Men). I just really liked the first two movies, hated the two that followed, and loved the third one. My feelings on each one are mercifully devoid of comic and even cartoon attachments.

Like I've said before though, they've really shot themselves in the foot killing off Patrick Stewart's character. His presence in the films was probably a selling point.

But I'm telling you the general audience doesn't generally feel that way.

Yea, you may know a couple people. Over the course of 5 years, living in 2 different states, and the many different types of people I have encountered, I have not experienced that same level of hatred from people in real life that I have experienced from the internet fanboy community. I think I can combine for about 3 people combined that dislike X-Men: The Last Stand and X-Men Origins: Wolverine, and one of those people dislikes X-Men period and doesn't find anything special about them, and often goes on anti-X-Men rants to get a rise out of me. Even most of the "fanboys" that I encounter in real life are of the mindset that "outside of Cyclops dying, the movie wasn't bad".

I just can't personally believe that the general audience hates those 2 movies so badly when I get nothing but positive reactions about those 2 movies constantly, or at worst, indifference. Never once have I had a conversation with someone in real life about how horrid and awful those movies were.

[blueserenity]

Originally Posted by Nell2ThaIzzay

But I'm telling you the general audience doesn't generally feel that way.

Yea, you may know a couple people. Over the course of 5 years, living in 2 different states, and the many different types of people I have encountered, I have not experienced that same level of hatred from people in real life that I have experienced from the internet fanboy community.

I've lived in 3 countries and 4 cities in the last 5 years, does that mean I win ? This is really not a valid argument. The number of people you know is not based on how many places you've lived in in a set timeframe. The number of people you know is actually irrelevant as it's not a good representation of the general public.

This will be my last reply on this matter to you. I can accept you don't know many IRL who dislike the film, and you will have to accept the fact that I don't know anyone who enjoyed it.

I don't HATE the film, for the record. I would be pretty pissed if they gave it a sequel instead of FC though. The older trilogy had its time in movie history. It's time to start fresh.

[Nell2ThaIzzay]

Originally Posted by blueserenity

I've lived in 3 countries and 4 cities in the last 5 years, does that mean I win ? This is really not a valid argument. The number of people you know is not based on how many places you've lived in in a set timeframe. The number of people you know is actually irrelevant as it's not a good representation of the general public.

This will be my last reply on this matter to you. I can accept you don't know many IRL who dislike the film, and you will have to accept the fact that I don't know anyone who enjoyed it.

I don't HATE the film, for the record. I would be pretty pissed if they gave it a sequel instead of FC though. The older trilogy had its time in movie history. It's time to start fresh.

Maybe

I guess it's not even just people I know, but also customers that I encountered when I worked at the DVD store when X-Men: The Last Stand came out on DVD and it was a top seller for quite awhile and people were always talking about how awesome the movie was.

I think we can agree though that the original trilogy's time is up. I don't think there's a need to "start fresh", just letting the franchise end is perfectly fine as well - all things have to end eventually. But if more movies absolutely have to be made, then continuing from X-Men: First Class I agree is absolutely the way to continue.

[X-Maniac]

Yes, tastes vary. At the time, TLS was clearly intended to be the end of the road in terms of films set in the present day. I enjoyed TLS but there are many things it could have done better to align itself with the previous two films, but what's done is done.

It's possible to continue the story, of course. And clearly they have ideas with the X4/X5 they have been talking about.

[marvelrobbins]

There are plenty of people who dislike Last Stand.At Best we can say It had mixed reaction from People.There are those In the General audence who like It but others don't.Just like some people online need to accept there are people who like the Star Wars Prequels and Indiana Jones and the Kingdom of the Crystall Skull some have to accept there are those who enjoy the Last Stand.I personally consider the Last Stand as worst In the series,and can actully enjoy watching wolverine more.Neither film are anywhere In My oporion close to being In the league as X-Men,X2,and First Class.

The franchise Isn't ending anytime soon.If X4/X5 get beyond the talk they will not be alternate versions of X3.They will almost certainly be based on Days of Future Past.Even If Fox allows Bryan Singer to pull a Superman Returns with The Last Stand(whick they are doing with Wolverine) It's going to be a brand new story set several years later.The advantage of Ignoring the Last Stand Is we could get the lineup that was alive at end of X2 with maybe Gambit being reintroduced.Even If the last Stand remains In conunity with X4 they won't be spending a lot of time be connected to the Last Stand.People also keep forgeting that the post Credits scene of the Last Stand had Xavier waking up In body which according to commantary was his brain dead twin brother.There Is actully precent for this In comics.To survive the Brood Xavier was cloned and his mind placed In clone body.This Is how In the 1980's he regained the ability to walk.The Twin Brother Idea came from when they suddenly In Grant Morrison's regin they had the very contorvleted Twin Sister Idea.

I would prefer the return of the Jedi of X-Men films not be Last Stand.Seeing the Sentinles and several of the characters reunited are other reasons to do It.

I can live with X4 not being made and only having The Wolverine,Deadpool,and First Class sequels to look forward to.I already have three really good films with X-Men,X2 and First Class.If that goes up to 7 I am happy.I have no Intrest In a reboot anytime soon.

[Angamb]

X4 can be epic and amazing.

But at the same time, I think that if Third Class includes Scott, Jean and Ororo and is amazing, it would be cool to make a last sequel with them.

Having young Scott, Jean and Ororo on just one sequel would be kind of sad. Specially if the movie turns out to be excelent.

But if they do just a trilogy, I will be fine with it too, I suppose.

[marvelrobbins]

Especilly If they make Cyclops the member of third class with the most focus,and show how he and Jean fell In Love.And show how he rises to be team Leader.

I am fan of Cyclops but also remember he hasn't always been well served by those In the comics.I am also glad Emma Frost Is older so there Is no chance of romance.I always hated how they destroyed scott and Jean to put him with emma.And If they did a reboot my fear would be they wouldn't even use Jean and focus on Emma as female telepath and her Involved with Scott.

[ciscostudent561]

Originally Posted by marvelrobbins

Especilly If they make Cyclops the member of third class with the most focus,and show how he and Jean fell In Love.And show how he rises to be team Leader.

I am fan of Cyclops but also remember he hasn't always been well served by those In the comics.I am also glad Emma Frost Is older so there Is no chance of romance.I always hated how they destroyed scott and Jean to put him with emma.And If they did a reboot my fear would be they wouldn't even use Jean and focus on Emma as female telepath and her Involved with Scott.

Dude let go lol...
I'd like the same thing too but the more you expect that the movie be like the comic the more disappointed you become. All in all as long as the film is good- I like it

[Sebastos]

A First Class sequel, no question. Of course X4 later down the road but it's not something I heavily anticipate.

[Nell2ThaIzzay]

Originally Posted by ciscostudent561

Dude let go lol...
I'd like the same thing too but the more you expect that the movie be like the comic the more disappointed you become. All in all as long as the film is good- I like it

This is how X-Men: The Last Stand and X-Men Origins: Wolverine became so hated. So many fan expectations that when they didn't get met, caused chaos.

[Superhero 101]

I want to See a First Class Sequel but i also really want to see X4 properly done with a good director possibly Singer. I just hate that the X Trilogy ended with The Last Stand.

[henzINNIT]

Originally Posted by Nell2ThaIzzay

This is how X-Men: The Last Stand and X-Men Origins: Wolverine became so hated. So many fan expectations that when they didn't get met, caused chaos.

There's also the far lesser quality of those films, don't forget that factor. I don't think there was a lot of expectations for Wolverine after TLS and yet many were still disappointed.

[Nell2ThaIzzay]

Originally Posted by henzINNIT

There's also the far lesser quality of those films, don't forget that factor. I don't think there was a lot of expectations for Wolverine after TLS and yet many were still disappointed.

While I won't deny that the actual film making is better in Singer's films, the quality in the others isn't as low as some people make it out to be.

[ThanosOfTitans]

X4. I enjoyed First Class, but I honestly have no interest in any of the new characters it established.

[fallenAngel]

So I've been watching X-men TAS on netflix and have found it positively shocking to see something with the name X-men on it that features Cyclops so heavily. I'm serious, I had long since forgotten.

But personal grudge aside, really the one thing that I hate, and I mean absolutely loath about the Last Stand as a movie and not a comic book adaption is the last two scenes of the movie. The cure may not have worked? Xavier has implanted his mind into his "brain dead twin brother?" (the very idea of this is so retarded it makes me wish I was brain dead. Its the big budget equivalent of putting a question mark on "The End.") If the filmmakers knew how much they were going to piss of the fan base then why bother at all. Either show your conviction to your controversial (and some would argue unavoidable decisions) and make people understand and accept them or pull a Mathew Vaughn and get the heck out of the production while you still can. Or better yet, don't pull off an hour and forty minute tease of a much better, and albeit great movie. A lot of critics loved the cure idea, it really did make for instant built in drama worthy of a film series climax.

But they were scared of their own ideas, its ridiculous.

anyway, I think people who say that the trilogy was done with Last Stand are right, but there is no reason to feel that a sequel with the remaining characters can't be made. They can set it several years later and actually make characters out of Iceman, Colossus and Kitty. These characters alone are still much more popular and engaging than Havok and Banshee. Plus they have Angel too. They just need to recast and take the story in a new direction, which I personally would find much better than the Xavier vs. Magneto retread that unfortunately a first class sequel will probably deal with.

And the whole Last Stand is hated/loved by random people debate is kind of pointless by this point. I know plenty of people who liked the movie, as I know plenty (and I mean plenty) who thought First Class was okay at best and really didn't give a **** about it. But I will say that even those who liked Last Stand always bring up the callous killing of characters (mainly Scott, who even non comic readers recognized as an important character) as a negative. And strong one. They may not lose sleep, but there is no one who would ever defend such a stupid decision. But trying to get millions of viewers on your own side to prove a point is not only impossible but the very nature of the debate brings one and only one conclusion and that is reactions were "mixed." Done and done.

[Nell2ThaIzzay]

Originally Posted by fallenAngel

So I've been watching X-men TAS on netflix and have found it positively shocking to see something with the name X-men on it that features Cyclops so heavily. I'm serious, I had long since forgotten.

But personal grudge aside, really the one thing that I hate, and I mean absolutely loath about the Last Stand as a movie and not a comic book adaption is the last two scenes of the movie. The cure may not have worked? Xavier has implanted his mind into his "brain dead twin brother?" (the very idea of this is so retarded it makes me wish I was brain dead. Its the big budget equivalent of putting a question mark on "The End.") If the filmmakers knew how much they were going to piss of the fan base then why bother at all. Either show your conviction to your controversial (and some would argue unavoidable decisions) and make people understand and accept them or pull a Mathew Vaughn and get the heck out of the production while you still can. Or better yet, don't pull off an hour and forty minute tease of a much better, and albeit great movie. A lot of critics loved the cure idea, it really did make for instant built in drama worthy of a film series climax.

But they were scared of their own ideas, its ridiculous.

anyway, I think people who say that the trilogy was done with Last Stand are right, but there is no reason to feel that a sequel with the remaining characters can't be made. They can set it several years later and actually make characters out of Iceman, Colossus and Kitty. These characters alone are still much more popular and engaging than Havok and Banshee. Plus they have Angel too. They just need to recast and take the story in a new direction, which I personally would find much better than the Xavier vs. Magneto retread that unfortunately a first class sequel will probably deal with.

And the whole Last Stand is hated/loved by random people debate is kind of pointless by this point. I know plenty of people who liked the movie, as I know plenty (and I mean plenty) who thought First Class was okay at best and really didn't give a **** about it. But I will say that even those who liked Last Stand always bring up the callous killing of characters (mainly Scott, who even non comic readers recognized as an important character) as a negative. And strong one. They may not lose sleep, but there is no one who would ever defend such a stupid decision. But trying to get millions of viewers on your own side to prove a point is not only impossible but the very nature of the debate brings one and only one conclusion and that is reactions were "mixed." Done and done.

I do agree greatly with the part that I bolded. That was rather ridiculous of them.

Now, I have a couple theories as to why I can personally accept Magneto still having his powers, while keeping the cure very much permanent, but they are just that - personal theories - that I'm sure weren't the film makers intent. Those scenes reeked of Kinberg and Penn wanted to seem "cool".

[The Guard]

The cure not working makes perfect sense metaphorically speaking. You cannot just cure differences. I'm glad they put that in the film. I don't think it was put there to be "cool" any more than I think any of the other social commentary and talk about differences was in THE LAST STAND to be "cool".

The Xavier thing gave me pause originally, and I still don't love it and think its fairly cheesy, but it makes sense in the context of the film...and it's a deliciously "Xavier" moment. I almost thought they were setting us up for Xavier as the villain in a possible sequel. That or clones.