Scenes in the movie that made go "Uhhh really?"

[Marvin]

Originally Posted by El Bastardo

Haha. Yeah, this.

Art is not subjective, by the way. How much one likes a piece of art is subjective, by its very nature of being an opinion. Art is quite objective, in all its forms in every medium. Good writing vs. bad writing. Good filming vs. bad filming. Good art vs. bad art. But oh, you'll never understand.

All that action sequence talk, I'll personally avoid. Personally I think if the action sucks that I'm very, very curious what people are going in droves to see the film for...surely not the "writing"

Art is not subjective?
I'd disagree. Perspective, balance, composition, all these things can be criticized and analyzed but their all for nothing in the wake of intent. What is intent...

Someone says the universe is beautiful and someone else says it has no story, no composition(does it?)...someone else says it's a beautiful piece of mindless art. These same three people happen upon a bed of roses, one says it's beautiful, the other says it needs more green to balance it out, the third says according to who? The second guy says according to the rules?

rules...
This goes way beyond one's subjective tastes, who says the bed of flowers needs more green before it becomes balanced, the guy who designed the colour wheel and made green complimentary to red?

Self imposed social rules, meant to control the individual if you ask me. I heard all about them in animation school. Especially when it came down to analyzing the films of Norman Mclaren on Monday and Bicycle thieves on Tuesday and Shrek on Wednesday. Anyone that says any from of art is not subjective is misinformed if you ask me.

[jaganar]

damint kitty im tryin to be serious

at this point im wondering with all the hate of BAYFORMERS how come you guys havent wondered if a THIS AINT TF would be better written

[Donut]

Its been a week since I have seen this & I am still trying to figure this out. The Deceptions knew of Sentinel being on Earths moon so they get there before the U.S. does & then take & hide a bunch of Pillars on Earth. But I am guessing this was Megatron doing this on his own. Then he goes to Earth looking for the Allspark after hiding the Pillars but he ends up getting frozen. If Megatron & Sentinel made the deal with each other before Sentinel left Cybertron then why shoot at his ship in the intro ? Unless that was just a ruse to make sure that the Autobots did not know of Sentinels betrayal & Sentinel & Megatron somehow knew that Sentinel would crash land on Earths Moon ? They should have explained that bit a little better

[Marvin]

Originally Posted by jaganar

1. dont u guys dare make fun of LATINO HEAT MEGATRON (and his poncho of doooooooooooom).

7. NO ONE brought this up yet so ill do it : IN 4 YEARS there have been a fingerfull of autobots arriving on earth YET when the CONs conquer the world they have small jets and zepplins .

cut to the end of the movie you really expect us to believe 9 autos FEND OFF an entire INVASION ?
also the Cons had a strong military force and when the control was destroyed everything disintergrated ? even those on Earth WHAT THE FRAK ??
this is TWILIGHT (CRAPPY BEYOND WORDS) writing at best

Last I heard autobots lost the war is this universe. In the first film Optimus makes a call to any surviving auto's ones to come to earth.
People probably don't bring things up for a reason.

As for a small disadvantaged unit defeating a larger more advanced invading force, um...
Hollywood kinda runs on this theory...has been for years...probably started when the Red Soc's defeated the Yankees few dozen years ago...but you're right it pretty stupid. I'd actually much prefer if the larger force defeated the smaller one for once. Damn You Bay.

[jaganar]

Originally Posted by Donut

Its been a week since I have seen this & I am still trying to figure this out. The Deceptions knew of Sentinel being on Earths moon so they get there before the U.S. does & then take & hide a bunch of Pillars on Earth. But I am guessing this was Megatron doing this on his own. Then he goes to Earth looking for the Allspark after hiding the Pillars but he ends up getting frozen. If Megatron & Sentinel made the deal with each other before Sentinel left Cybertron then why shoot at his ship in the intro ? Unless that was just a ruse to make sure that the Autobots did not know of Sentinels betrayal & Sentinel & Megatron somehow knew that Sentinel would crash land on Earths Moon ? They should have explained that bit a little better

id like to add to this the 67 COSMONAUT camera which had no signs of impact and 68 camera which had the pillars impact on the moon ,does this incorporate TRANSWARP TECH from beastwars ? since MEGATRON and SENTINEL left Cyberton the same time (thousands of years ago as confirmed in BAY 1 and BAY-prequel comics)

2. i think if M followed SENTINEL without firing a shot it would have looked super suspicious since they had the agreement before the shuttle launch (read the prequel COMIC to 1 its from BB'S point of view) where he sees S's shuttle launch and no MEGZ in sight till the final panels.

i think the flashback is from OPTIMUS'S Pov and it was his worst fear with the ship being destroyed.

3. my only question is since cybertron is the Technological version of MOGO/EGO how come the planet didnt SIMPLY reformat the bodies of the dead bots ?? because as far advanced as they were i think they would have beeb able to transfer and contain some of the allspark energy to ensure the survival of the race (this would explain why FALLEN'S ship still had the nurseries to me atleast)

[El Bastardo]

Originally Posted by spider_rob

I would even go as far to say that a majority of the action scenes in Transformers do suck. Yes, they're engineered well, but there's no emotion, no sense of danger. Just underdeveloped, trite characters running around avoiding stuff while the cool characters (Autobots) are offscreen.

This is certainly a prevalent point for Dark of the Moon, in which the Autobots, most of the time, are a bunch of ineffectual nipples.

[Thundercrack85]

Seeing Optimus tangled really killed the atmosphere.

Though, it's true that the characters are so underdeveloped you really couldn't care less if they died. Let us all take a moment to remember Jazz and possibly Arcee.

[El Bastardo]

Originally Posted by Marvin

Art is not subjective?
I'd disagree. Perspective, balance, composition, all these things can be criticized and analyzed but their all for nothing in the wake of intent. What is intent...

Yeah? Good for you. Disagree all you want - then go and study the arts, literature, and analysis and learn why you're wrong.

Your musings about intent might be all well and good, but they have nothing to do with objectivity, or even your attempted point that art is actually subjective. Intent matters nothing at all in any analysis, outside of asking the following question for d-baggery's sake: "Did the maker/s intend to make a piece of ****?"

I'm sure Bay intends to make pieces of quality art - or, at the least, he intends to make exciting blockbusters that wow and woo and awe his audience - but he generally does not, in the first case, and definitely has not with this movie. It is not a good movie.

Here's a very easy one: Bad Santa vs. Bad Teacher. Or do you contend that the makers of Bad Teacher had the intent of creating an inferior version of Bad Santa with none of the charm, humor, character growth? (Or, see aforementioned question: "Did the maker/s intend to make a piece of ****?") Because, if so, boy, they succeeded admirably, and guess what? Yep. Bad movie.

Geez, it really isn't hard to grasp.

[Spider-Man Luvr28]

Originally Posted by spider_rob

The opening ass shot of Carly. Made me kind of embarrassed to be seeing the movie.

I had quite a few problems with her. The opening ass shot was definitely one of them because I was like "Um...okay..." and then the fact that throughout the whole film, she didn't have one single scratch on her face or anywhere else for that matter even after everyone survived a collapsing building ( ) and everything else, meanwhile Sam's all banged up.

And there was this other random shot of her where she was just standing there on top of the rubble & they just put the camera to her.... & the speech she gave to Megatron as others have mentioned was just ridiculous.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not bashing her acting ability or anything, because she was good, but it was just those moments with her that made me go . Heck even if it had been Fox I still would've said the same thing.

Josh Duhamel though....

[El Bastardo]

If I was Megatron, I would have pinched her head so her facial features looked even more squished-together.

[Spider-Man Luvr28]

Originally Posted by El Bastardo

If I was Megatron, I would have pinched her head so her facial features looked even more squished-together.

[Thundercrack85]

What was Megatron even doing when she gave that speech? It seemed like he was literally just sitting there...

[El Bastardo]

Hiding. And pouting.

[Marvin]

Originally Posted by El Bastardo

Yeah? Good for you. Disagree all you want - then go and study the arts, literature, and analysis and learn why you're wrong.

Your musings about intent might be all well and good, but they have nothing to do with objectivity, or even your attempted point that art is actually subjective. Intent matters nothing at all in any analysis, outside of asking the following question for d-baggery's sake: "Did the maker/s intend to make a piece of ****?"

I'm sure Bay intends to make pieces of quality art - or, at the least, he intends to make exciting blockbusters that wow and woo and awe his audience - but he generally does not, in the first case, and definitely has not with this movie. It is not a good movie.

Here's a very easy one: Bad Santa vs. Bad Teacher. Or do you contend that the makers of Bad Teacher had the intent of creating an inferior version of Bad Santa with none of the charm, humor, character growth? (Or, see aforementioned question: "Did the maker/s intend to make a piece of ****?") Because, if so, boy, they succeeded admirably, and guess what? Yep. Bad movie.

Geez, it really isn't hard to grasp.

Geez, I wonder if I punctuate my points with a resounding "Geez" that maybe they too will finally hit home.

I for one find it hard to believe that these so called critics even consider Bad Santa a good film, then again considering how "objective" all this is, I'd be a hypocrite to start questioning them now.

While we're on the topic of Santa, art and willful intent. What happens when some schmucks start running around the film boards telling everyone to hate a somewhat cult classic titled bad Santa because it's a silly an offensive, low denomination geared "commentary" on the role the character that Santa Clause has on society, kids, and a mans struggle with identity. They go one to proclaim that you instead watch George Seaton's 1947 classic Miracle on 34th street to see the material handled in a far greater more tasteful and down right more artistic fashion...objectively speaking of course...wouldn't that be something.

Bad Santa is a Bad Movie...at least when compared to you know a real filmmakers take on the material. But hey, perhaps Terry Zwigoff intent wasn't to make a "good film"

Bay intends to do what he does and he does it well most of the time. When the audience score is in the 90 percentile and the film is en-route to box office glory, I'd say the producers intent to success ratio are probably on point.

As far as artistic analysis, I think it's shaky at best, that Marla Olmstead documentary a few years back pretty much stomped all over the argument and that wasn't even it's intent.

[El Bastardo]

Wow. Yep. At some point I just have to stop trying to educate people.

I'm with Spoons: tl;dr.

Good luck with your illusions, sir.

[Marvin]

Originally Posted by El Bastardo

Wow. Yep. At some point I just have to stop trying to educate people.

I'm with Spoons: tl;dr.

Good luck with your illusions, sir.

how eloquent.
hows about you focus on "educating" yourself, you might find more success.

The concept of a bad film isn't lost on me, but everyone and their mother knows the hate for bayformers starts with it's intent before anything else.

Why are there so many humans anyways
Why is John Turturro playing a comedic character(for the first time in his career)?
I myself have had many problems with the films execution, but never with it's intent.

peace

[Raiden]

1. Carly lecturing to Megatron, who even in its down-trollen state shouldn't have enough listened to a human and even gotten pursuaded by her. I'm still surprised at just how pathetic Megatron has become during the course of these three films.

2. Ken Jeong.

3. Bumblebee's peril. Bay's decision to slow-down the execution scene just made it more obvious.

4. Optimus Prime taking out Megatron with just one arm in 2 seconds after a lengthy battle against Sentinel Prime. Even with half a face Megatron shouldn't be this weak.

5. Sam. Even after being out-of-work, he's got a superhot girlfriend and lived in a big apartment. Yeah, you can really feel sorry for him. /sarcasm

[Marvin]

Originally Posted by Raiden

4. Optimus Prime taking out Megatron with just one arm in 2 seconds after a lengthy battle against Sentinel Prime. Even with half a face Megatron shouldn't be this weak.

Have you seen the cartoons?

5. Sam. Even after being out-of-work, he's got a superhot girlfriend and lived in a big apartment. Yeah, you can really feel sorry for him. /sarcasm

And here is my personal gripe of intent in action.

I'd understand if one said the writing didn't give Shia enough attention to have us "feel sorry for him," though I'm not sure they ever wanted us to be crying for his blight. But I've heard this numerous times now, how can someone in such a great (social) position be down, and why should it matter to us?

The Kings Speech just won the Oscar in spite of this very crux. Imagine a critique about how stupid it is to feel sorry for a European king dealing with a bad social or personal time of his life? He's a King! Hey, it's fine if it bothered you, me, myself, I could relate fully. I thought it was rather poignant and a brief commentary on the state U.S. employment at this time in history.

[spider_rob]

Originally Posted by Marvin

Have you seen the cartoons?



And here is my personal gripe of intent in action.

I'd understand if one said the writing didn't give Shia enough attention to have us "feel sorry for him," though I'm not sure they ever wanted us to be crying for his blight. But I've heard this numerous times now, how can someone in such a great (social) position be down, and why should it matter to us?

The Kings Speech just won the Oscar in spite of this very crux. Imagine a critique about how stupid it is to feel sorry for a European king dealing with a bad social or personal time of his life? He's a King! Hey, it's fine if it bothered you, me, myself, I could relate fully. I thought it was rather poignant and a brief commentary on the state U.S. employment at this time in history.

LOL, Marvin is comparing Transformers to King's Speech!

BTW, according to the first movie, Megatron can easily kick Optimus's ass. Are you going to by the cartoon continuity or the movie's?

[J.Howlett]

The whole plot made me sigh. It just doesn't fit with the mythology set forth in the first two films.

Sentinel Prime crashes on the Moon in 1961, having made an alliance with Megatron. How the hell does that happen if Megatron is at the Hoover Dame, frozen in ice at the time?

If you start thinking about this film in relation to the first two, your brain starts to hurt.

Honestly, Optimus giving Sentinel Prime the Matrix of Leadership is what did it for me...considering Prime blew it to hell at the end of the second film....

[Marvin]

Originally Posted by spider_rob

LOL, Marvin is comparing Transformers to King's Speech!

BTW, according to the first movie, Megatron can easily kick Optimus's ass. Are you going to by the cartoon continuity or the movie's?

lol I know right
Figure if I go for the top, the complaint would look even more ridiculous.

I'm going by the cartoon. One day optimus can clean house the next he's taken down by starscream or whomever. This is even more present in beastwars. When a new character shows up he's all powerful, then he's a joke for the rest of the season. (optimal optimus)
Honestly all kids shows work this way, Especially power rangers

Originally Posted by J.Howlett

The whole plot made me sigh. It just doesn't fit with the mythology set forth in the first two films.

Sentinel Prime crashes on the Moon in 1961, having made an alliance with Megatron. How the hell does that happen if Megatron is at the Hoover Dame, frozen in ice at the time?

If you start thinking about this film in relation to the first two, your brain starts to hurt.

Honestly, Optimus giving Sentinel Prime the Matrix of Leadership is what did it for me...considering Prime blew it to hell at the end of the second film....

The former compliant is obviously a retcon, if you can't get past that, no one can blame you.

As for the latter
I wasn't aware that the matrix could be destroyed.

[spider_rob]

Originally Posted by Marvin

lol I know right

I'm going by the cartoon. One day optimus can clean house the next he's taken down by starscream or whomever. This is even more present in beastwars. When a new character shows up he's all powerful, then he's a joke for the rest of the season. (optimal optimus)
Honestly all kids shows work this way, Especially power rangers.

Yeah, I guess it makes sense to equate Bay's writing methods to those of a children's cartoon.

But, Spider_rob, Transformers is based on a kid's cartoon so it fits!

Yeah, I don't remember waking up on Saturday to ghetto robots, close ups of supermodel asses, implied usage of the F word, and other depravity.

[Raiden]

Originally Posted by Marvin

Have you seen the cartoons?

Yes, I've seen G1, Beast Wars, and other Japan-exclusive shows like Headmaster and Victory. But Bayformers =/= TF cartoons. And Megatron went from kicking Optimus Prime's ass all over the place after coming out of deep freeze in TF1 to getting owned by him in less than a minute when Prime only had one good arm in TF3? And I thought the fact that Megatron had to team up with Blackout and Starscream in ROTF to beat Prime in ROTF was ridiculous.

And here is my personal gripe of intent in action.

I'd understand if one said the writing didn't give Shia enough attention to have us "feel sorry for him," though I'm not sure they ever wanted us to be crying for his blight. But I've heard this numerous times now, how can someone in such a great (social) position be down, and why should it matter to us?

The Kings Speech just won the Oscar in spite of this very crux. Imagine a critique about how stupid it is to feel sorry for a European king dealing with a bad social or personal time of his life? He's a King! Hey, it's fine if it bothered you, me, myself, I could relate fully. I thought it was rather poignant and a brief commentary on the state U.S. employment at this time in history.

Not sure how Sam's situation can be comparable with King's Speech. Btw, for all Sam's lamentation about his poor substitute of a car, I guess not everyone can get used to ordinary cars after driving a freakin' Transformer for so many years.

[Thundercrack85]

The character of Sam was fairly irrelevant to the plot. At least in the second movie, he was doing something important. Here he's just present for the sake of being present.

[spider_rob]

Originally Posted by Thundercrack85

The character of Sam was fairly irrelevant to the plot. At least in the second movie, he was doing something important. Here he's just present for the sake of being present.

Hey, gotta give those failures in life with really hot girlfriends and badass transforming sportscars someone to relate to!