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Old 07-11-2011, 04:51 PM   #76
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Default Re: Scenes in the movie that made go "Uhhh really?"

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Yeah, I guess it makes sense to equate Bay's writing methods to those of a children's cartoon.

But, Spider_rob, Transformers is based on a kid's cartoon so it fits!

Yeah, I don't remember waking up on Saturday to ghetto robots, close ups of supermodel asses, implied usage of the F word, and other depravity.
why are we doing that argument now?
All I said was that if people didn't have a problem with character strength consistency in the cartoon, why should they have one now?

...oh that's right because cartoons didn't have an ass hole director.

But now that you bring it up;
I do remember waking up on Saturday mornings to see jive talking robots, mixed with hick and Asian and even south Bronx talking robots doing and saying silly, stereotypical things. I remember naked bi-peds running all over the place, more ass shots than I can count to be honest. I remember robot farts and other bodily functions.
I don't ever remember hearing the F word in the cartoons though, you've gotta hand it to bay on that one, I know you can only drop the F-bomb once in a pg13 film and he really pushed the envelope on that....damn does the man not know the meaning of restraint. Now he's gone an offended everyone

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Yes, I've seen G1, Beast Wars, and other Japan-exclusive shows like Headmaster and Victory. But Bayformers =/= TF cartoons. And Megatron went from kicking Optimus Prime's ass all over the place after coming out of deep freeze in TF1 to getting owned by him in less than a minute when Prime only had one good arm in TF3? And I thought the fact that Megatron had to team up with Blackout and Starscream in ROTF to beat Prime in ROTF was ridiculous.
I thought it was a cool fight, I thought all fans did.
Someone told me they just figured the optimus of old wouldn't cut loose in a city full of people. Whereas in the forest he was especially driven based on principle. As for what happened in TF3.
Megatron is a walking corpse, his own crew probably doesn't even fear him anymore.
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Not sure how Sam's situation can be comparable with King's Speech. Btw, for all Sam's lamentation about his poor substitute of a car, I guess not everyone can get used to ordinary cars after driving a freakin' Transformer for so many years.
simple, just because he's "rich" doesn't mean he can't have troubles.
ergo the king George comparison.

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Old 07-11-2011, 05:12 PM   #77
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Marvin,

There's really no rules to the Matrix except that it couldn't be found. It is earned. That's it. They never say it can't be physically destroyed.

Yeah, it technically was a sock of dust at one point before it became one again but still, Prime destroyed the Sun Harvester with the Matrix inside.

To me, it's done with and unimportant because the Autobots and Decepticons pretty much existed fine without the thing so it's not really relevant to their survival.

And yeah, I can't get past the retconned stuff in film. I mean, Prime's voice over can't even established how long they've been on Earth in relation to the last film. I couldn't even believe that piece of dialogue made it to the final film ("A year after our arrival?" WTF? How about four years after our arrival...)

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Old 07-11-2011, 05:47 PM   #78
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Default Re: Scenes in the movie that made go "Uhhh really?"

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why are we doing that argument now?
All I said was that if people didn't have a problem with character strength consistency in the cartoon, why should they have one now?

...oh that's right because cartoons didn't have an ass hole director.

But now that you bring it up;
I do remember waking up on Saturday mornings to see jive talking robots, mixed with hick and Asian and even south Bronx talking robots doing and saying silly, stereotypical things. I remember naked bi-peds running all over the place, more ass shots than I can count to be honest. I remember robot farts and other bodily functions.
I don't ever remember hearing the F word in the cartoons though, you've gotta hand it to bay on that one, I know you can only drop the F-bomb once in a pg13 film and he really pushed the envelope on that....damn does the man not know the meaning of restraint. Now he's gone an offended everyone
Yes, character consistency don't always exist in cartoons, comics, and other long-running storytelling medium, but obviously movies are a different matter and just because we accept Spider-man having clones and made a deal with the devil and wipe everyone's memories of his revelation as Spider-man, doesn't mean we'd accept it in the movies. We won't have defended movies like X3 and Batman & Robin by pointing out that in their long history in the comics, those characters have done much sillier things to justify the films' lack of quality. I don't think Transformers should get a free pass, either.

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I thought it was a cool fight, I thought all fans did.
Someone told me they just figured the optimus of old wouldn't cut loose in a city full of people. Whereas in the forest he was especially driven based on principle. As for what happened in TF3.
Megatron is a walking corpse, his own crew probably doesn't even fear him anymore.
I don't understand why Megatron would become so pathetic in TF3, just because he lost in TF2 and got battle wounds to show for. He's a freakin' ROBOT, he can be repaired or even augmented. And Megatron basically were useless in TF3 until the final fight, when he decided to insert himself into the battle after Carly touched a nerve with a few choiced words. Basically, he can be written out of the movie and then showed up in the last 5 minute, and no one would've noticed.

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simple, just because he's "rich" doesn't mean he can't have troubles.
ergo the king George comparison.
I just think if you don't really care about the character, you won't care about their troubles, either, esp, if he was sleeping with a Victoria's Secret model.

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Old 07-11-2011, 07:04 PM   #79
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Default Re: Scenes in the movie that made go "Uhhh really?"

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Marvin,

There's really no rules to the Matrix except that it couldn't be found. It is earned. That's it. They never say it can't be physically destroyed.

Yeah, it technically was a sock of dust at one point before it became one again but still, Prime destroyed the Sun Harvester with the Matrix inside.
Which is why it's such a non issue in my humble opinion.

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Old 07-11-2011, 07:15 PM   #80
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Yes, character consistency don't always exist in cartoons, comics, and other long-running storytelling medium, but obviously movies are a different matter and just because we accept Spider-man having clones and made a devil with the devil and wipe everyone's memories of his revelation as Spider-man, doesn't mean we'd accept it in the movies. We won't have defended movies like X3 and Batman & Robin by pointing out that in their long history in the comics, those characters have done much sillier things to justify the films' lack of quality. I don't think Transformers should get a free pass, either.
All understandable, but the issue of someone being more or less effective in a fight based on circumstance is hardly a stretch. Superman almost always works on this principle.

Kryptonite renders him useless, then it just stuns him, then depending on if lois needs him or not, it has no effect. Then if he's mad he can beat up doomsday, then depending on if it's wednesday he can't. It's all circumstantial if even that. What remains consistent is that Lex Luthor isn't beating him in a foot race. But weather or not he can go toe to toe with darksied really depends on the day of the week and his state of mind.

Optimus probably has it in him to take out the entire con squad if his back is against the wall, but he could just as easily be taken out by a well placed missile. It's always been that way, why complain now?

Batman maybe be the top pure martial artist in the DCU, but that doesn't mean he can't be put down by 4 thugs on an off day. I think Optimus' prowess was best represented in part 3. This isn't the same issue as giving a free pass to spider clones.

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I don't understand why Megatron would become so pathetic in TF3, just because he lost in TF2 and got battle wounds to show for. He's a freakin' ROBOT, he can be repaired or even augmented. And Megatron basically were useless in TF3 until the final fight, when he decided to insert himself into the battle after Carly touched a nerve with a few choiced words. Basically, he can be written out of the movie and then showed up in the last 5 minute, and no one would've noticed.
Megatron is not only crippled, he's mentally and spiritually defeated. Gone is the Sovereign that tore Jazz in two whilst perched on a building top. I think it's interesting...I can understand it bothering fans.

Secondly, not all injuries can be fixed, especially when your on the run and especially when you don't have a medic bot around. Take a look at bee's voice.

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Old 07-11-2011, 07:32 PM   #81
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Default Re: Scenes in the movie that made go "Uhhh really?"

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Secondly, not all injuries can be fixed, especially when your on the run and especially when you don't have a medic bot around. Take a look at bee's voice.
Well, Bumblebee is around Ratchet and they still couldn't fix his voice box. Okay, it was fixed at the end of TF1, but Bay decided to recon it so he can be more "lovable" this way. But I digressed.

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Old 07-11-2011, 07:45 PM   #82
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Well, Bumblebee is around Ratchet and they still couldn't fix his voice box. Okay, it was fixed at the end of TF1, but Bay decided to recon it so he can be more "lovable" this way. But I digressed.
That's one thing I've never believed to be bay's choice alone.
No chance.

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Old 07-11-2011, 08:08 PM   #83
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I loved Sam in this movie, it allowed Shia to really show that he has some great range as an actor. I only have two scenes that I thought uh really and that was when Frances Mcdormand put on those weird looking shoes and when Ken Jeoung pulled out the two guns. Both were too dumb and too unneccessary. Everything else I was fine with.

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Old 07-11-2011, 09:04 PM   #84
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Optimus got stuck upside-down in crane wire despite having bladed weaponry he could pull forth to cut himself free.

Clearly, Optimus in Dark of the Moon is an ***clown.

Oh, wait, that was probably the intent of the filmmaker and writers, not an unforeseen consequence like making a craptastic movie.

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Old 07-11-2011, 09:14 PM   #85
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Optimus got stuck upside-down in crane wire despite having bladed weaponry he could pull forth to cut himself free.

Clearly, Optimus in Dark of the Moon is an ***clown.

Oh, wait, that was probably the intent of the filmmaker and writers, not an unforeseen consequence like making a craptastic movie.
your point, exactly?

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Old 07-11-2011, 10:27 PM   #86
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Well, Bumblebee is around Ratchet and they still couldn't fix his voice box. Okay, it was fixed at the end of TF1, but Bay decided to recon it so he can be more "lovable" this way. But I digressed.
What makes no sense is when he finally spoke it was so enchanting .... I would've preferred that voice over the stupid cut and paste transmissions.

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Old 07-11-2011, 10:51 PM   #87
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Two scenes

1) Deep wang, of course.

2) The Wreckers FINALLY coming to rescue Optimus from...a bunch of cables he was caught in? C'mon that makes him the Autobot equivalent of a fly or some stupid crap. What a lame epic fail getting caught in the cables was.

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Old 07-11-2011, 10:58 PM   #88
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Two scenes

1) Deep wang, of course.

2) The Wreckers FINALLY coming to rescue Optimus from...a bunch of cables he was caught in? C'mon that makes him the Autobot equivalent of a fly or some stupid crap. What a lame epic fail getting caught in the cables was.

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Old 07-11-2011, 11:04 PM   #89
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Coming from a guy that REALLY liked TF 3, one scene that I groaned at was the scene where Carly looks up the car that Dylan got her. It was probably the worst product placement in the ENTIRE series, even worse than the Mtn Dew and Xbox 360 robots. It really was like "Dylan got me a car, it's called the fill in blank, here's the website, here's a montage, back to the plot!". I guess another thing was how completely useless the Wreckers were.

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Old 07-11-2011, 11:42 PM   #90
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What makes no sense is when he finally spoke it was so enchanting .... I would've preferred that voice over the stupid cut and paste transmissions.
I did notice that they put a line of two of Spock from the Wrath of Khan movie via Bee's voice box (and Nimoy is, obviously, voice of Sentinel Prime).

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Old 07-12-2011, 01:12 AM   #91
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Perhaps it takes a foot in the industry to appreciate another group of peoples work (the animation aspects in TF are top of the line after all).

Maybe that's why Nolan has been mentioned as being a fan of this type of work, perhaps that's why Cameron has been on record saying nothing but good things about the style. Perhaps, my sig needs to be read by more people. Why is it such a big deal to everyone what kinda films you enjoy, or tell everyone you enjoy...it's very lame in my honest opinion.

Guess what, I enjoy Mac & Cheese! I know!
It's not quite french gourmet but I really like it, and not just because I'm cheap. The weird thing is I've taken some cooking classes and stuff and yet I still "support bad food." Isn't that insane.

People need to stop acting like what they enjoy (and enjoy talking about) makes them a greater or lesser person, especially on forums. By the way, comedies are almost by definition flawed films if you look at them in certain ways...better be careful not to let anyone around these parts know you enjoy those.

cartoon film thingies eh...thanks I guess.
Art is subjective, it's hard to define a "bad" film.
Wow, I couldn't disagree with your sig more. I can't think of single movie that I thought played worse in the theater. If it sucked in theater, it certainly sucks at home too. But I literally can't think of one movie that isn't already bad that wouldn't play better on the big screen with an appreciative audience.

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Old 07-12-2011, 01:15 AM   #92
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you're point, exactly?
He thought Optimus Prime was ineffectual in the movie? Seems pretty obvious to me.

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Old 07-12-2011, 07:46 AM   #93
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He thought Optimus Prime was ineffectual in the movie? Seems pretty obvious to me.
I was referring actually, to the blanket statement he seemingly closed with.

Considering the title of this thread, I'm not sure why more people aren't mentioning said scene. However to say Optimus was ineffectual during the movie would be akin to the same out cry that was generated after the first movie, later giving the filmmaker incentive to "over power" the character in the opinion of many. Really take into consideration what Optimus was seen to do in this film and re-evaluate your conclusion.

As for the scene in question. It bothered my date as well. As a fan I can't see how such a thing doesn't bother you, but as a movie goer it just comes with the territory. Sometimes the hero ends up in a bind that could go either way. With bayformers, this of this nature tend to backfire on epic proportions.

Why it doesn't bother me (personally)
-Optimus isn't a natural flyer(I doubt the same would happen to star scream
-Construction/building cables of that nature can hold a lot more than the weight of a truck, wrecking balls come to mind(sorry if I offend anyone with that word)
-Optimus has on a lot of extra tech, enabling his movement(on his back and front, and his wings are wrapped, it's not a simple jet back he's wearing.
-The cables are wrapped around his arms and legs effectively crucifying him.

There's a few more points that I brought up at the time that are escaping me at the moment. Sure it's ironic that he has super heating blades that can possibly cut through steel cables, but that's all for nothing giving the nature of the cables. For example what good are adamantium claws if you're wrists are crucified? Like I said I don't care if it made people go "uhhh really?"
I do however care when people tie such a thing to blanket statements like the one you referenced. Me personally, I think it could have been handled better, I also think shockwave and SS should have been pressed the attack on him at that moment and the wreckers could/should really have saved the day. The execution of several things could have been better but like I said before, the intent (optimus incapacitated) is fine by me. I have a feeling a lot of people just hate the idea.

Again, it's easy to say why didn't he cut himself free, the thing is, it's just as easy to say the opposite. Given this is Bayformers, why even bother right.

Moreover, this is hardly the first time a hero has been circumstantially ineffective where he should have been otherwise. Batman, Spiderman, Ironman, Superman...it happens everywhere and all the time.

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Old 07-12-2011, 07:53 AM   #94
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Default Re: Scenes in the movie that made go "Uhhh really?"

Here's the thing though. Not all of his arms were caught up in the wires. He was actually trying to free himself with his left arm. But apparently completely forgot that he has blades in his arms.

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Old 07-12-2011, 08:51 AM   #95
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I'd have to see the scene again but that was the impression I got, plus I wasn't aware prime had blade on both arms in this movie, I could be wrong but I always seen him with a shield or gun in the other arm.

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Old 07-12-2011, 10:30 AM   #96
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He had a sword and an axe, both of which he was able to produce at points in the movie (in the case of the blade, also in Revenge of the Fallen and, I believe, the first movie) either from his arm or from somewhere on his back out of nowhere, kind of like the old days of video games where you could run around with no weapon showing and then POOF, weapon.

I'm pretty sure he could manage that upside-down.

Also, I made no blanket statement, thank you very much. Do you know what a blanket statement is? No, I made just a statement - a statement designed to mock.

Also, ineffective is fine, given situation and context. Laughably ineffective to the point where it becomes character development throughout the movie is not fine.

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Old 07-12-2011, 12:50 PM   #97
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He had a sword and an axe, both of which he was able to produce at points in the movie (in the case of the blade, also in Revenge of the Fallen and, I believe, the first movie) either from his arm or from somewhere on his back out of nowhere, kind of like the old days of video games where you could run around with no weapon showing and then POOF, weapon.

I'm pretty sure he could manage that upside-down.
I remember he had a bunch of gear in his trailer, I don't remember the axe coming out of his arm. I just recall the single sabre in this film. As scene in the super bowl spot.

being pretty sure he could manage something is pretty far removed from validating a statement about intent to make craptastic films...but that's (apparently) just me.

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Also, I made no blanket statement, thank you very much. Do you know what a blanket statement is? No, I made just a statement - a statement designed to mock.

Also, ineffective is fine, given situation and context. Laughably ineffective to the point where it becomes character development throughout the movie is not fine.
I assumed it meant a generalization with little evidence. But I should have known that it was simply to mock, hard to take anything seriously when bay's involved.

I'm curious how you've come to this ineffective conclusion. Optimus did the best he could with what he had and very much in line with his source material. This isn't Chris Nolans batman we're talking about here, Optimus is actually like he's always been though some would say he may need some more pacifism in his language.

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Old 07-12-2011, 01:47 PM   #98
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I never stated the axe came out of his arm. Given, I didn't differentiate, but I figured anyone who'd seen the movie would know themselves.

He did have gear in his trailer, which he had recovered by that point and was where he got the fly-tech from (off-screen). But regardless, we never see the axe on him until he pulls it out of nowhere from his back once he faces off against Sentinel Prime. As such, we can establish that he has access to it in the finale of the film.

Regardless, he had two arm blades in Revenge of the Fallen, one for each. Oh, maybe he lost that power-up when he died, like when Mario respawns as a midget.

This is discounting the physics of the situation, any and all. Momentum, size, weight, thrashing, not to mention the sheer size of the blade that he could have popped from the right arm and should have been able to pop from his left arm (but that's RotF, so I won't make it a sticking point).

Optimus is not how he's always been. The Autobots in the third movie are laugh-out-loud idiots, though I'll make an exception to that statement in the case of Bumblebee, who still comes off as deadly. Optimus only shines when he auto-kills Megatron at the end, like something out of Dragon Ball Z where the hero finally wins the battle because he's supposed to. Anywhere else in the movie, Prime and the Autobots (again, with the exception of Bumblebee) are ineffective and inept in battle when compared to the first - notably Ironhide and Ratchet warding off Starscream and the attack against whoever Decepticon-Tank was, and Prime vs. Bonecrusher and Megatron - and even the second movie - where Prime shined in general, and the rest of the Autobots were involved in the big siege at the end.

I have no gripe with Prime being evenly-matched or over-matched, as was the case in different situations in the first two movies. My gripe comes from him and the Autobots being ineffective and inept to the point of both being accurate character descriptors in the case of the third movie. My other gripe is we have no way of knowing or understanding as a viewing audience that Sentinel Prime is supposed to be more powerful than Optimus, and the only action we see of him prior to the finale is a surprise attack on Ironhide with acid rounds or some unexplained whatever, and then a big temper-tantrum on the Nest hangar.

Seriously, how is it hard to see the difference between that and the instances we have in the first two movies? There's a difference between ineffective/inept and over-matched. Megatron is built as a legitimate threat and recognized by the Autobots with fear by the time he's flying around in the first movie. Come the second movie, when Prime is over-matched he's fighting off three enemies simultaneously.

And please, get off your high-horse thinking it's all about Bay. I don't give a rat's *** about Bay. The first movie is a fine film, which he directed.

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Old 07-12-2011, 03:32 PM   #99
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This is a pretty awesome breakdown of some of the issues:



Also, the entire setup of the movie is heavily flawed.

1) We, the USA, have NEVER landed on the "Dark Side" of the Moon. The time of radio silence is when the orbiter is circling the far side of the Moon. EVERY landing from the US and other nations (manned and unmanned) have been on the "front side" of the moon.

Why? Communication. We don't have geosync satellites around the moon that would allow for constant communication no matter the location. To argue they could have lifted out and re-landed on the moon is beyond preposterous.

Bay is terrible when it comes to actual space travel. He tremendously screwed the pooch on Armageddon (Space Shuttle taking off like a plan on the asteroid??!?!?!) and has done so again here.

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Old 07-12-2011, 03:35 PM   #100
Colossal Spoons
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Default Re: Scenes in the movie that made go "Uhhh really?"

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Originally Posted by El Bastardo View Post
And please, get off your high-horse thinking it's all about Bay. I don't give a rat's *** about Bay. The first movie is a fine film, which he directed.
I think Micheal Bay himself might be posting in this forum. I've never seen a film defended with such tenacity.

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