Do you wish Katie was in TDK, or do you wish Maggie was in BB?

[GothamAlleys]

Originally Posted by Joker

We're starting to repeat ourselves now, mate. Lets just agree to disagree

Yeah, but hey, it was good to help bring this section to life again

[The Joker]

Originally Posted by storyteller

Maggie in TDK actually looks like a real person that you can find anywhere so you can care far more about Bruce and Harvey being attracted to her for her personality and not just her looks. Also Katie just seemed young. Like she could still pass for a college student while Bruce, Harvey, and Maggie look like they are in their late 20's early 30's.

I think in Begins though the character simply served no purpose in the sequel she actually did.

Agreed.

Originally Posted by jamesCameronOnl

Yeah, but hey, it was good to help bring this section to life again

True

[Szetsilya]

Originally Posted by jamesCameronOnl

She doesnt. At all. And I never said she has to. Im just saying she wasnt in TDK



And what looks did in BB is made her pleasant to look at and added the extra dimension to the character which I already spoke about

Oh good gawd! This is just all kinds of wrong!

[Szetsilya]

Originally Posted by jamesCameronOnl

In that case Alfred is also that prima donna. She was like a guide, a parent to him when he needed it. I guess it depends on POV, but like Nolan said, Rachel was Bruce's moral guide. Rachel was extremely wise and helped Bruce "tune up" when he got lost. She supported him when he needed it (she understood and accepted his will to attend the trial), she was very sweet and open to him (ending scene) and also when he deserved it she was harsh on him and gave him tough love and criticized him when he deserved it. The wise words of "its not who you are underneath" came from her, the whole "Bruce is your mask" statement did as well. She was sometimes sweet, sometims arrogant, sometime tough, sometime supportive, sometime criticizing. She was a trusted, childhood friend, love interest and parent at the same time

Maggie on the other hand didnt even understand Bruce (Harvey may not know when youre making fun of him but I do) and was constantly dismissive and annoyed by even his presence ("Yeah, fancy that"), not even listening to him and being so insensitive to his feelings, not even wanting to talk (Dont make me your only hope for a normal life), being so cold about it and just leaving him standing alone, not even willing to support him with some words and friendly talk or advice. She had only one dimension, one color, and that was a dime a dozen DA office worker who clearly didnt want anything to do with Bruce at all. And nothing but being mean to Bruce was the only thing she did

I agree, Katie's Rachel cared about Bruce deeply though I always felt it was more as a friendship thing. I applauded her when she forced Bruce to look past his personal pain about his parents murder and to see the system that had invented Chill and how it is still in power. That scene in the car is what made me love Rachel Dawes. She cared about him from the start of the movie til the end of it even when he had deeply hurt her by disapearing for 7yrs then showing back up and never contacting her. I felt Rachel in BB served a great purpose as one of the few moral characters who could help Batman establish a change in Gotham. For me she was on the same level as Gordon.

Maggie was all around a "b" to Bruce and she had no reason to be. Bruce had done nothing to offend her or anger her unlike with Katie's Rachel in BB. Taking away from the looks departmen, I can't see why Bruce Wayne would at all be interested in this woman and her condescending attitude and attack remarks upon Bruce's character. Maggie as Rachel just came off as insensitive, arrogant, and a shrill school marm and I can't think of one scene in the movie where she actually was Bruce's friend.

[GothamAlleys]

Originally Posted by Szetsilya

Maggie as Rachel just came off as insensitive, arrogant, and a shrill school marm and I can't think of one scene in the movie where she actually was Bruce's friend.

Fully agree. Does she even smile at least once to him? Or it it always an angry or annoyed face?

[Fudgie]

Originally Posted by storyteller

Maggie in TDK actually looks like a real person that you can find anywhere so you can care far more about Bruce and Harvey being attracted to her for her personality and not just her looks. Also Katie just seemed young. Like she could still pass for a college student while Bruce, Harvey, and Maggie look like they are in their late 20's early 30's.

I think in Begins though the character simply served no purpose in the sequel she actually did.

Yup yup. Katie was like a caricature trying to be a real person.

[GothamAlleys]

Originally Posted by storyteller

I think in Begins though the character simply served no purpose in the sequel she actually did.

Incorrect. According to Nolan she was the moral guide for Bruce, and she was someone who derailed him form the wrong path and made him change his life. Plus everything Szetsilya said

In begins, she had plenty of functions and she was crucial to Bruce's development, his friend, support and love interest. In TDK shes only a damsel in distress, nothing more. Gylenhal admitted she is. And Maggie looks like shes in mid 40s btw, but we moved from the look talk

[The Joker]

Originally Posted by jamesCameronOnl

Incorrect. According to Nolan she was the moral guide for Bruce, and she was someone who derailed him form the wrong path and made him change his life. Plus everything Szetsilya said

In begins, she had plenty of functions and she was crucial to Bruce's development, his friend, support and love interest. In TDK shes only a damsel in distress, nothing more. Gylenhal admitted she is. And Maggie looks like shes in mid 40s btw, but we moved from the look talk

I'd like some links to where both of these statements were made, please, particularly Gyllenhaal's because this is what I've read from Gyllenhaal about the role:

"I met Chris and he was lovely and smart and thoughtful. He gave me the script to read and he said to me when he gave it to me, he said, 'She's not quite finished yet, this character.' It was early on and I guess it was a sort of early draft. I read it and I had a lot of ideas, and I guess for me there were two chief worries. One was that I wanted to make sure that I had Katie Holmes' blessing and I didn't want to get involved with it if I didn't. I also wanted to make sure that Chris wanted the character to be smart and feisty and fierce and a real whole thinking woman who cares just as much about making Gotham an honorable and safe place to live as any of these guys did. When I realized that Chris wanted exactly that, then I had to do it."

http://movies.about.com/od/thedarkkn...night70108.htm

“She’s trying to figure out in a lot of the movie which of these two very honorable men is going about trying to change the world they live in a way that is more effective and better,” she says. Rachel’s final decision is a dramatic highpoint of the film that has far-reaching and devastating consequences for all three characters.

http://www.newsarama.com/film/080710...rk-knight.html

[GothamAlleys]

Smart and fiesty, but still a damsel in distress. She has no other function in TDK, as oppose to Rachel in the first one thats so important. Anyway, the link

About Katie in BB
Christopher Nolan: Katie also has a maturity beyond her years that comes across in the film and is essential to the idea that Rachel is something of a moral conscience for Bruce. (indielondon.co.uk)

I dont think a link is even needed. If not her, he would still be the lost spoiled brat that wanted to kill Chill. Instead he rethought his life after her speech and ran off

Anyway, Maggie:
Maggie: "Chris Nolan, the director, would joke about how I had to resign myself to being a little bit of a damsel in distress. But he pushed me in other ways to make her a powerful character. .(Metro.co.uk)

Theres more when I was diggin for interviews when I planned to do an objective writeup on Rachel, but as of now I put it on hold. I need to know first why a fictional woman was created and not an existing character, I cant seem to find an explanation

[raybia]

Originally Posted by Rocketman

The past is the past, I know.

BUT, when I watch both films back to back, it's sooo annoying to see the lack of continuity in Rachel's casting.

So, for the sake of continuity, if you had the choice to go back in time, would you originally cast Maggie as Rachel in BB, or would you have Katie return for TDK?

Personally, I would have Maggie in both films.

NOTE: Ignore Tom Cruise and their personal lives, and just look at both ladies' performances themselves.

Jennifer Connelly.

[Fudgie]

Originally Posted by raybia

Jennifer Connelly.

I have loved her ever since Labyrinth. She was wasted in Hulk.

[HisMagicTrick]

Well, I don’t actually like Rachel Dawes as a character, but I’d still choose Maggie to play her in BB and TDK. I’m not exactly sure why… maybe because I watched TDK first so I was used to her.

[Hound55]

Katie Holmes.

Maggie's GENERALLY the better actress but her delivery was painful in TDK. To the point that I was relieved when she bew up because it meant she wouldn't have any more lines.

[hopefuldreamer]

I vote Katie.

It would have been a lot easier to care about Rachel and remember their history if she was played by the same girl. Call me simple all you want, but re casting a role does screw up my ability to see them as the same girl... Especially as they almost had nothing in common, in the way each actress played her, and in the way they were written.

I like BB's Rachel better. And when I try to imagine Katie in TDK, it does seem better. Because even when she's not smiling, she looks sweet. She will always have that warm, girl next door face. Maggie just looked tired and pissed off most of the way through the film. Her kiss with Bruce was like the opposite of chemistry (tho it was arguabley awkward on purpose).

I mean, I am not a big fan of Katie... But in this scenario she would definitely have been better.

[El Payaso]

Originally Posted by Hound55

Katie Holmes.

Maggie's GENERALLY the better actress but her delivery was painful in TDK. To the point that I was relieved when she bew up because it meant she wouldn't have any more lines.

You mean Katie is generally the better actress but she was painful to watch in TDK. Wgereas Katie ahs always been painful to watch so we were used to that in advance for BB.

Originally Posted by hopefulsuicide

I vote Katie.

It would have been a lot easier to care about Rachel and remember their history if she was played by the same girl. Call me simple all you want, but re casting a role does screw up my ability to see them as the same girl... Especially as they almost had nothing in common, in the way each actress played her, and in the way they were written.

Maybe it would have been a lot easier to care about Rachel and remember their history if she was played by the same girl, but it'd have been impossible not to celebrate when the character died.

[Hound55]

Originally Posted by El Payaso

You mean Katie is generally the better actress but she was painful to watch in TDK. Wgereas Katie ahs always been painful to watch so we were used to that in advance for BB.

No. I meant it how I said, your way makes no sense.

Originally Posted by El Payaso

Maybe it would have been a lot easier to care about Rachel and remember their history if she was played by the same girl, but it'd have been impossible not to celebrate when the character died.

You weren't?

[El Payaso]

Originally Posted by Hound55

No. I meant it how I said, your way makes no sense.

Your way makes no sense. Maggie was painful, but also was Katie. That's why I tried to make some sense out of your post.

Now at least Maggie looked like a DA, not a girl playing adults.

Originally Posted by Hound55

You weren't?

I didn't mind it as I never cared for the character to start with. But Katie was just too annoying not to celebrate her fictional death.

[frodawgg]

Originally Posted by El Payaso

Your way makes no sense. Maggie was painful, but also was Katie. That's why I tried to make some sense out of your post.

Now at least Maggie looked like a DA, not a girl playing adults.

His post made PERFECT sense. He was saying that, although Maggie is a superior actress, it was painful to watch her in TDK. Your response came across as that you thought the casting was reversed and you were correcting him, although I know that wasn't the intent.

[Cobblepot]

The Joker seemed to like her..."Well hello beauuutifulll..."

[Travesty]

Originally Posted by El Payaso

Now at least Maggie looked like a DA, not a girl playing adults.

She was an ADA, and she was at the right age to be one, too. My friend went into law, and was an ADA at the age of 27.

[hopefuldreamer]

Originally Posted by El Payaso

Maybe it would have been a lot easier to care about Rachel and remember their history if she was played by the same girl, but it'd have been impossible not to celebrate when the character died.

I think I prefer loving to hate someone, over just simply wishing they'd shut up because i'm bored.

If i'd been watching that death scene and been ethusiastically yelling 'Just die already' it would have been better than '*yawn* is this bit over yet?'

At least i'd have been engaged in the scene

[thebatandthecat]

I didn't hate Katie in BB. I actually liked Maggie in TDK. So either way would have been fine with me I just wish it had been the same person in both movies.

Having said that, If I could have cast the character it would have been Rachel McAdams!

[El Payaso]

Originally Posted by frodawgg

His post made PERFECT sense. He was saying that, although Maggie is a superior actress, it was painful to watch her in TDK. Your response came across as that you thought the casting was reversed

My response came the way it came because the subject of the thread is to compare both actresses, not just talking about one.

Originally Posted by frodawgg

and you were correcting him, although I know that wasn't the intent.

Then if you know it's not the intent, what was the problem?

Originally Posted by Travesty

She was an ADA, and she was at the right age to be one, too. My friend went into law, and was an ADA at the age of 27.

I don't remember talking about her age but what she looked like.

Originally Posted by hopefulsuicide

I think I prefer loving to hate someone, over just simply wishing they'd shut up because i'm bored.

If i'd been watching that death scene and been ethusiastically yelling 'Just die already' it would have been better than '*yawn* is this bit over yet?'

At least i'd have been engaged in the scene

An nap before the movie could also help.

[Travesty]

Originally Posted by El Payaso

I don't remember talking about her age but what she looked like.

But you did imply her being a "girl playing adults". I'm saying, that she wasn't even a DA in BB, she was an ADA, and she looks to be of age to be playing one at that.

[El Payaso]

Originally Posted by Travesty

But you did imply her being a "girl playing adults".

No, I implied she looked likeone ("Now at least Maggie looked like a DA, not a girl playing adults).

Originally Posted by Travesty

I'm saying, that she wasn't even a DA in BB, she was an ADA, and she looks to be of age to be playing one at that.

She looks 21.