Christian Bale v.s. Michael Keaton

[terry78]

Bale's Batman is cool and mysterious, but I was actually scared of Keaton's Batman. The eyes, like most people said, were intense as hell. You did not want to run into that ****er alone at night.

[ALP]

Originally Posted by jamesCameronOnl

Burton's bats were in part a German Expressionism. Like Burton said, they were going back to the silent movie acting with presence and stare, with which Keaton did wonders. Burton's movies were art movies, something that we should keep in mind. It was all about art, German Expressionism and Gothic narrative

As I said before, picking one or the other isnt picking an actor, its just picking an approach. Keaton was stunningly perfect for the Gothic expressionist presence he was suppose to imitate, like in Shreck's Nosferatu (another Expressionist Gothic story in which characters worked with presence and eyes) which was cited as influence

Bale on the other hand sold the angry, dedicated and skilled Ninja who also had need for regular' man's life perfectly for the conventional, "regular" movie portrayal. They both fit their roles and world's perfect to a T, and thats exactly the view that the great late Heath Ledger shared about Burton's and Nolan's world. They were both perfect for their own genre

Originally Posted by jamesCameronOnl

Btw, Im working on an article presenting all movie Batmans' personalities and motivations. Of course, as usual Im not gonna write any of my opinions or ideas and everything will be based on facts and supported by quotes and facts. I already started the research (for me the worst part of writing for the GothamAlleys blog since it takes so much time and effort), and I already spent last few days in libraries (yes, my research isnt just online, that wouldnt be satisfactory enough) reading books and old newspapers with interviews and artciles on Keaton's Batman so far. All I do lately is reading, reading and typing up the relevant passages to Word for the future use. I still have vintage magazines to read and naturally I still havent even finished researching Keaton alone, so the article wont showup anytime soon

With your first post I fully agree. With your second post and your blog I applaud your dedication

[Cain]

Thanks indeed jamesCameronOnl for your well researched articles. It's refreshing to see articles on these movies that are actually objective and factual and not biased for a change.

[GothamAlleys]

Thanks a lot, much appreciated. I just want to apologize for typos or some sentences here or there, I never proofread those.

[returntovoid]

jamesCameronOnl posted the entry on the Christian Bale/Nolan Batman depiction.

http://gothamalleys.blogspot.com/201...christian.html

[BatmanBeyond]

Originally Posted by returntovoid

jamesCameronOnl posted the entry on the Christian Bale/Nolan Batman depiction.

http://gothamalleys.blogspot.com/201...christian.html

Thanks jamesCameronOnl for a well-researched and very informative article!

As for the subject of this topic, I must say that I prefer Bale and Nolan's interpretation of Bruce Wayne/Batman. The subtle nuancing of the character is something I really appreciate(as well as a lot of other things, including the much maligned bat-voice ). I've never particularly liked Burton and Keaton's take on the character, although judging by the number of people who appreciate it, it does seem to have quite a bit of merit. I could just never appreciate Burton's Batman as much as I do Nolan's. Granted, I've never really given BatKeaton(thanks Cracked.com! ) a chance to grow on me, but that's probably because back in the 90's I was much more interested in the TAS version of Batman and right now I'm not that interested in giving it a chance.

[GothamAlleys]

Originally Posted by BatmanBeyond

Thanks jamesCameronOnl for a well-researched and very informative article!

Thanks!

As for the subject of this topic, I must say that I prefer Bale and Nolan's interpretation of Bruce Wayne/Batman. The subtle nuancing of the character is something I really appreciate(as well as a lot of other things, including the much maligned bat-voice ). I've never particularly liked Burton and Keaton's take on the character, although judging by the number of people who appreciate it, it does seem to have quite a bit of merit. I could just never appreciate Burton's Batman as much as I do Nolan's. Granted, I've never really given BatKeaton(thanks Cracked.com! ) a chance to grow on me, but that's probably because back in the 90's I was much more interested in the TAS version of Batman and right now I'm not that interested in giving it a chance.

Hmm, well, TAS was virtually an extension or, if some prefer, a spinoff of Burton's world. The world is virtually the same, the music, the feel, the gadgets and Batman's behavior and movements and more. I always saw TAS as a sequel to Returns which ignores some events of the movie but took place in the same world with mostly the same characters, so basically the early 90s were filled with Burtonesque Batman for me. Good old times, and I must finally get myself the DVD set

[Ponyboy]

I agree with your last comments about BTAS. Those early episodes were extremely dark. I would've liked to see Burton's take on Mister Freeze and Two Face for sure. I loved the Dr. Fries "Heart of Ice" episode... brilliant, scary, sad and beautiful.

[Hobgoblin]

Originally Posted by jamesCameronOnl

Thanks!



Hmm, well, TAS was virtually an extension or, if some prefer, a spinoff of Burton's world. The world is virtually the same, the music, the feel, the gadgets and Batman's behavior and movements and more. I always saw TAS as a sequel to Returns which ignores some events of the movie but took place in the same world with mostly the same characters, so basically the early 90s were filled with Burtonesque Batman for me. Good old times, and I must finally get myself the DVD set

According to the book Batman: Animated, the artists from BTAS visited the set of Batman Returns and made sketches of DeVito as the Penguin and Michelle as Catwoman at Warner Bros insistence. Looking at the animated and film Penguins, they do look a lot alike.

[GothamAlleys]

Originally Posted by Hobgoblin

According to the book Batman: Animated, the artists from BTAS visited the set of Batman Returns and made sketches of DeVito as the Penguin and Michelle as Catwoman at Warner Bros insistence. Looking at the animated and film Penguins, they do look a lot alike.

Oh sure, but thats only an appearance of Penguin and Catwoman, while by their own admission on the audio commentary and in many other places, the whole BTAS world is Burton's, as is the technology and music and feel inspired by his movies (first one more so than the second) and of course then theres tons of homages

[Valaquen]

I vote Keaton. Love his silent, sad, but wicked looking eyes. He's almost like what Bale's Batman would become after years of prowling Gotham.

[Xtroid]

I think Burton's insane freak version of the character would have fit in the more drab Nolan universe (let's face it, if a guy dressed as a bat popped up today in New York or Los Angeles kicking mugger asses, he'd totally have a few screws loose to say the least), while Nolan's more traditionally heroic Batman would have been believable in Burton's stylized comic book world.

[Pittman4Two]

I skimmed through this thread tonight.

Obviously, Begins was released around the time this thread started. It's intriguing to see how much love Bale received initially, but as the thread progressed and the newness started wearing off, the tide slowed a bit. Then the thread picked back up around the time Dark Knight ran. Bale lost quite a bit during that period it seemed. His portrayal of Bruce and Batman did not have the same aura as it did in Begins and it showed in everyone's posts.

Now, as the posts became more recent, I've read a ton more positive Keaton posts than Bale's.

So I go back to my original theory. I believe Bale's lead in the votes were mostly due to the reboot of the franchise. I think if this thread started over today, the votes would be much closer.

In my opinion, I would choose Keaton to play the character of Bruce Wayne/Batman.

[Fudgie]

Bale.

[Elevator Man]

VIDEO-CLick to Watch!:

This is a good example of how intimidating Keaton is even without the cape and cowl. I know the video get's right to the point. But he was having a calm converstaion with a psychopath and all of a sudden he just snaps. Joker even took a step back.

Someone had an interesting theory or whatever on Keaton's performance in that scene saying that Bruce Wayne and Batman persona merged in that moment where he shouts. But reverts back to Wayne the moment Nicholson says the "pale moonlight" line. Interesting.

[Hobgoblin]

Originally Posted by Elevator Man

VIDEO-CLick to Watch!:

This is a good example of how intimidating Keaton is even without the cape and cowl. I know the video get's right to the point. But he was having a calm converstaion with a psychopath and all of a sudden he just snaps. Joker even took a step back.

Someone had an interesting theory or whatever on Keaton's performance in that scene saying that Bruce Wayne and Batman persona merged in that moment where he shouts. But reverts back to Wayne the moment Nicholson says the "pale moonlight" line. Interesting.

My new ring tone.

[elgaz]

I love both performances, and I happen to think Bale's is underrated if anything.

Yes, it's true that the popularity of his performance seems to have risen and fallen in time with the release of both Batman Begins and TDK. But I think the problem is that, in terms of TDK at least, Bale is overshadowed by a hugely unique and enigmatic performance from the Heath Ledger as Joker. The character of Batman is always going to appear slightly ............... - well, 'boring' for lack of a better word - against the totally psychotic and crazy Joker.

Let's not forget that although Keaton's performance was liked by critics at the release of Batman (just as Bale's was), there were also similar complaints that he was totally overshadowed by Nicholson's Joker. This is as much to do with the script and story as it is to do with the lead actor - perhaps Batman just needs more screentime in both films.

I thought Bale did a great job in BB portraying the young Bruce Wayne searching for some meaning in his life, and especially after he begins his training with Ra's Al Ghul. You can almost smell his enthusiasm when he realises he has to take on crime and make himself a symbol. And then in TDK, after Rachel dies he's on the verge of a complete U-turn and comes across as broken man. Sitting slumped in his penthouse staring into the Batman mask (aka, himself) conveys a very deep sense of loss and lack of direction which I never really felt Keaton conveyed quite as strongly in times of doubt.

I think we're so used to his performance now that we don't acknowledge the 2 very different roles he's playing. As Bruce Wayne, Bale exudes an effortless charm and suavity in his tailored suits, but as soon as he puts on the Batsuit he immediately switches to this aggressive, dangerous persona. Although I loved Keaton's performance, I didn't find the shift in persona quite as dramatic - his Bruce Wayne had some very clear hints of Batman in terms of his solitude and somtimes sombre reflective moods, and his Batman also had some very clear hints of Bruce Wayne. He combined elements of both characters without playing them totally separately; I don't necessarily think this made it any deeper a performance, but it certainly made it harder to believe that no-one could work out his Batman was actually Bruce Wayne.

Whereas with the Bale version of Bruce Wayne, it's sometimes difficult to reconcile that he is one of the most feared crime fighters in the world when he's not in the suit.

[Pittman4Two]

I would tend to agree that Bale made a clearer contrast in his portrayal of Bruce Wayne vs. Batman, however I do also believe that Keaton did separate the two quite vividly when given the chance. A clear example is below:

- Party where we initially meet Bruce Wayne. Clumsy (champagne glass almost falling over, fork being stuck in that wild plant or whatever that was), charismatic (playful discussion with Knox and Vale), and a playboy (once he set eyes on Vicki, it was game time).

It was mentioned earlier in this thread that Keaton only played two characters while Bale played three (Batman, Playboy Wayne, and Troubled Wayne). With this reasoning, Keaton most certainly played three as well. If you take the previous example as the Playboy Wayne, you could see Keaton in Troubled Wayne-form more often than not. The best example for me was:

- In the cave when he is staring at the still shot of the Joker on the video screen. The theme in the background was perfect while he sits in the chair conflicted whether or not to kill the man who killed his family, bring him to justice, or just outright quit.

Bale as Playboy Wayne had much more script to play with than Keaton did in that aspect.

[Ryan]

I think both are great actors and I think some of their best work was done outside of the Batman films. I give the edge to Bale, mainly due to the scripts. He was able to play Bruce Wayne (scenes with Alfred), Bruce Wayne billionaire (party scene in Begins) and Batman. Keaton (i'm going by memory) seemed to stay stoic, reserved in most of his scenes, but who knows, maybe thats how an older Batman would behave. Also, Bale gave me that "swear to me" and "where are they!?" scenes which were the first times I'd seen a truly intimidating Batman on screen.

[Indy1Jones]

Both are great as Batman/Bruce Wayne but I choose Bale.

[Marx]

Michael Keaton is the standard by which all other "Batmen" are measured. He was intense, brooding, and knew how to carry a scene without being gimmicky or coming across as forced.

[Batman4ever]

Bale by a mile. He has totally understood the fight Bruce has within to not full want to be Batman. But, as we all know he does. But he has really nailed it.

[GothamAlleys]

Each of them nailed the versions they were portraying to a T. Keaton was based on the early Kane Batman while Bale was based on Modern Age Batman. Both nailed it

[El Payaso]

Originally Posted by Batman4ever

Bale by a mile. He has totally understood the fight Bruce has within to not full want to be Batman. But, as we all know he does. But he has really nailed it.

Keaton's Bruce didn't fully weant to be Batman either. That's why he saw redemption in Selina Kyle and offered her to renounce being Batman and Catwoman, much as Bale's approach saw redemption in Rachel.

[GothamAlleys]

Thats right. And does nobody remember the "I tried to avoid it but I cant" speech?