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Old 07-26-2011, 01:12 AM   #26
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Default Re: So what DIDN'T we like?

not enough cussing or naked women

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Old 07-26-2011, 01:15 AM   #27
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Default Re: So what DIDN'T we like?

Cobra is a pretty good comparison.

One other issue I had is that the movie had a very limited scope. If you consider the sheer size of World War II. Maybe they could have had Steve do some missions in the Pacific Theater. I suppose they just didn't have enough time, since they only had one movie to tell the whole story of Captain America's adventures pre-freezing.

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Old 07-26-2011, 01:20 AM   #28
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Default Re: So what DIDN'T we like?

^You bring up a very good point that Scott Mendelson brought up in his review of the movie. Cap could easily have had a couple of more movies set in the 1940s with different missions during WWII. But they need Cap to be in the present so he can be in the Avengers movie, Mendelson basically said it was a "necessary evil". Doesn't ruin the film but possibly takes away future story lines set in the past.

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Old 07-26-2011, 01:34 AM   #29
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Default Re: So what DIDN'T we like?

How long was Steve Rogers active as Captain America? It seems rather brief in the movie.

I do think it makes his legacy seem a bit strange. Most contemporary stories depict him as a battle hardened, veteran soldier. Here he's a guy who only just got out of basic training, who went on a handful of missions. It just felt rushed. But I understand that they needed him for the Avengers movie.

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Old 07-26-2011, 01:42 AM   #30
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^That time with the USO and the montage of the howling commandos makes it seem like at least a few months or even a year. I mean no way are they like taking out a base every single day, the montage just made it seem that way.

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Old 07-26-2011, 02:40 AM   #31
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Default Re: So what DIDN'T we like?

It's not something I didn't like, but it's something I wish had happened. I would've loved to have seen Cap in an epic "D-Day" like warzone. That scene in the final Hydra base came close to it, but that was more in the background.

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Old 07-26-2011, 03:38 AM   #32
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Default Re: So what DIDN'T we like?

The movie was overall solid. Saw it a second time and liked it better. The acting was pretty decent. My complaints or major one is the freaking musical number. My god it went on for too damn long. Did they have to run through the entire song. It just felt outta place and quite boring. The rest are small gripes and it's a matter of being nit picky.

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Old 07-26-2011, 03:42 AM   #33
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I will add that it would've been nice if the movie had at least given Cap a timeline in battle for a couple of years with him and the commadoes. I know u couldn't show it but at least hinted to it. These guys have been going on mission for the last two years or something. That at least if they wanted to set a sequel also during WW2 it could be plausible.

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Old 07-26-2011, 04:49 AM   #34
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Default Re: So what DIDN'T we like?

As far as complaints, I thought the Howling Commandoes were all pretty one note and fairly boring characters. The ending was a little abrupt and Cap's line I thought was a little weak.

I want to know what happens to Zola and what he is up to.

I didn't like the lack of Nazis and Red Skull "betraying" Hitler. Schmidt was never a turncoat. He was Hitler's protege and I believe he worshipped the Fuhrer. Why do Nazis BETRAY HYDRA? Hydra should just be another division or organization like the SS and the Gestapo.

Those are my nitpicks and I don't care too much about them, but I felt those details simply could've been executed better.

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Old 07-26-2011, 04:57 AM   #35
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-Didn't like Hugo Weaving's German accent. I wish he had used his Agent Smith voice, it was far more sinister. Zola's German accent wasn't great either, but better than the Skulls.

-Felt the Nazi aspect of Skull was too de-emphasized. I couldn't buy Hitler allowing Schmidt to build up pretty much a rival organization, with weapons of such power. It also didn't make sense that Schmidt wasn't giving Hitler at least some of the weapons, if for no other reason to keep him in Hitler's good graces and out of his hair. Didn't like how they replaced the Nazi symbol with the Hydra symbol throughout the movie, even on the little flags used to represent the Hydra bases.

-Thought the Hydra uniforms and tech were way too advanced. I also thought Cap's final uniform was too advanced. I preferred the uniform he had on during the tours, with some streamlining or touch ups, as the one he should've used.

-No mention of Isaiah Bradley. I really didn't expect it, but would've been pleasantly surprised if some type of mention had been thrown in there.

-Didn't realize that the film was supposed to take place over several years until I read that on the internet. I think they could've done a better job with that. Like just showing years passing by during that montage when Cap is kicking ass.

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Old 07-26-2011, 08:10 AM   #36
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I agree. I would have liked to have seen Hitler or the Nazis. The Red Skull was supposed to be Hitler's right hand man. Seemed odd they'd shy away from Nazis in a WW2 movie. I don't think we saw one swastika. I was just reading an old issue where the Skull was saying how sickened he was by these inferior 'blacks and jews and fops.' Woulda seemed a bit more real. Instead they seemed to want to keep the bad guys lightweight. Cartoony. Nazi-lite.

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Old 07-26-2011, 08:12 AM   #37
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^You bring up a very good point that Scott Mendelson brought up in his review of the movie. Cap could easily have had a couple of more movies set in the 1940s with different missions during WWII. But they need Cap to be in the present so he can be in the Avengers movie, Mendelson basically said it was a "necessary evil". Doesn't ruin the film but possibly takes away future story lines set in the past.

Don't worry, there's always the inevitable re-boot
Avenger Origins: Captain America.

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Old 07-26-2011, 08:21 AM   #38
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Default Re: So what DIDN'T we like?

I think the opening frame to the avenger teaser with the boxing gloves serves more of purpose than just cap's been releasing some tension. I think he's been working on his sklls. Mainly the boxing aspect.

I have many(many) gripes with the film but the only one that kept me up at night was the inability to find cap at the crash site of a giant wing the size of a base ball park.

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I also thought it was a bit contrived how he became the Army recruitment mascot. Here the goverment just spent untold millions on this super soilder serum, it actually works, people are willing to kill and die for it and then they just dismiss the guy? Why wouldn't they at least send him into battle? You paid for him, you might as well use him. And it would make a lot more sense for the army to hire an actor for these recruitment drives rather than cast this secret government test project, no?
Well they did try and play it off as sending STeve to the "lab" due to his value and ofcourse duplicating the serum. The tour stuff came by way of a business guy I think.

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Old 07-26-2011, 10:20 AM   #39
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I have many(many) gripes with the film but the only one that kept me up at night was the inability to find cap at the crash site of a giant wing the size of a base ball park.
You mean, Howard Stark's inability (/ the inability of the people back in that time period)? I thought the implication was that while Howard was somehow able to find the Cosmic Cube in the middle of the Arctic Ocean (...really? They couldn't even find the final resting place of the Titanic until like the mid 80s), that they couldn't find the crash site of the Giant Flying Wing at all, let alone Cap's body. The scene with Howard seemed to imply that they thought the plane also went down in the ocean, like the Cube.

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The tour stuff came by way of a business guy I think.
I think that was a US senator who arranged all that.


Not a nitpick, but a question -- are we crazy, or did they never actually mention the names of any of the Howlin' Commandos?

Also a question, or a point of confusion...

Okay, when Schmidt first enters the Norwegian church where the Cosmic Cube is hidden, and retrieves the dummy Cube, it looks a LOT like the one that Fury showed to Selvig in the post-credits of THOR. Then, when Schmidt gets the real one, even when he isn't touching it directly (he's holding the wooden box and just opening the lid), it's glowing intensely blue. It continues to glow intensely blue for the rest of the film. I thought it still had at least a bit of blue glow in the scene where Howard's robot retrieves it from the ocean floor (I'm assuming that's how they were able to find the thing at all, that they followed some kind of weird energy signature).

The implication seems to be that the real Cosmic Cube is always glowing, whether someone is touching it or not.

So why does it look inert in the briefcase in the scene with Fury?

(Perhaps we'll get an explanation later; I'm just wondering if anyone has any theories.)


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Old 07-26-2011, 10:38 AM   #40
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Default Re: So what DIDN'T we like?

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As far as complaints, I thought the Howling Commandoes were all pretty one note and fairly boring characters. The ending was a little abrupt and Cap's line I thought was a little weak.

I want to know what happens to Zola and what he is up to.

I didn't like the lack of Nazis and Red Skull "betraying" Hitler. Schmidt was never a turncoat. He was Hitler's protege and I believe he worshipped the Fuhrer. Why do Nazis BETRAY HYDRA? Hydra should just be another division or organization like the SS and the Gestapo.

Those are my nitpicks and I don't care too much about them, but I felt those details simply could've been executed better.
Well Schmidt openly lamented how he no longer fit the Fuhrer's image of perfection .....

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Old 07-26-2011, 10:40 AM   #41
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.
I have many(many) gripes with the film but the only one that kept me up at night was the inability to find cap at the crash site of a giant wing the size of a base ball park.
Again, in the movie they tell you why that is. The assistant in Stark's ship says they can't find a trace of the energy from the cube anywhere else so they had no other beacon to finding him. Although Stark says, "keep looking" .... we also see that the wing is sinking deeply into the ice.

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Old 07-26-2011, 10:46 AM   #42
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Again, in the movie they tell you why that is. The assistant in Stark's ship says they can't find a trace of the energy from the cube anywhere else so they had no other beacon to finding him. Although Stark says, "keep looking" .... we also see that the wing is sinking deeply into the ice.
Right. They were able to trace the Cube's energy. They expected to find the Cube with the plane. That's why it was significant that the Cube fell out so long before the plane actually crashed.

No satellites to help pinpoint the crash location, in the 40s. Even with satellites today, and other advanced technology, there are a surprising number of plane crashes on land that aren't located for a very, very long time.

At the start of the movie, they also lampshade this -- I think one of the arriving SHIELD agents (if that's who they are) says something like, "Why wasn't this found before?", and the guy who was there to greet them responds with, "this landscape is changing all the time".

Not only did the ending show the Wing settling/melting into the ice, but snowstorms would have soon covered all of the wreckage and the scars of the crash.

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Old 07-26-2011, 10:46 AM   #43
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-Gains power in experiment gone wrong (Spider-Man, Hulk)
-Kindly mentor dies (Iron Man, Spider-Man)
-Action set peice avenging mentors' death (Spider-Man, Iron Man)
-Originally using powers for wrong reason (Spider-Man)
Wrong on these counts...

-Cap gains his powers from an experiment that went completely right. After the experiment is when things went wrong.
-Yinsen was in no way Stark's mentor
-see above...also Stark wasn't avenging his friend, he was trying to escape, avenging just happened to coincidentally fit in due to the ensuing carnage
-Rogers never used his powers for the wrong reason. He was shoe horned into the USO since he had nothing else to do, the military didn't except him...then, when the chance presented itself, he immediately went into action.

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Old 07-26-2011, 10:51 AM   #44
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Loved the movie overall -- BUT...

1. Bucky's apparent death lacked the proper impact and emotion.
I've seen this point posted several times and I completely disagree. There was an entire scene taking place in a bar afterwords dedicated to his sadness and trying to get drunk because of it (though he can't because of the serum effects). I don't know how that's not proper impact...he was clearly effected for awhile and depressed.

You want to talk about not having proper impact due to a death...look at Matrix Revelations and Trinity's death...that was ridiculous. "OH NOES! you is impaled and now dead...*sad face*...anyways, moving on."

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Old 07-26-2011, 11:01 AM   #45
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I have a few .....

- I thought some of the green screen work was really tacky. It's the difference between a $140million budget and a $200million budget. So I guess they just had to make due.

- The rescue of the Howling Commandos was weak. Don't get me wrong, there were a couple of funny moments. I LULZ'd when Morita responded to Dum Dum "I'm from Fresno" and when Morita asks the french guy if he knows how to use the gun. I just thought Cap too easily tip-toed his way into the facility. I did however like the scene within it when he met The Red Skull for the first time. That was my favorite exchange between the two of them.

- The missions montage watered down the action.

- You never got to see Cap's full abilities in this movie, partricularly his acrobatic ones. I mean we're talking about a guy who's supposed to be better than the best Olympic gymnast.

- Evans performed better than I expected, but I still stand by my comments that there was still not enough range there. I started getting bored with him and no it has nothing to do with "how Captain America is". I thought he played Skinny Steve better than he played Cap. I mean in the beginning Steve was the guy getting feisty with Bucky because other men are putting their lives on the line, so he should be too. I never really saw that again for the rest of the movie. I can't tell if it was because the script didn't call for it or Evans was trying too hard too hard to be straight laced.

- The scene with Bucky rescuing Steve in the alley was pure cheese.

- The Howling Commandos were wasted in this. I thought it really odd how Cap recommended them to Col. Chester even though at that stage he barely knew them.

- I liked the Cap/Skull fight, but I felt it could've been done even better. They just looked like two boxers going at each other when it's supposed to be two nearly super-powered humans.

- The scene with Bucky falling off the train should've been held longer for more dramatic effect. It felt like it was on fast forward to me.

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Old 07-26-2011, 11:04 AM   #46
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Default Re: So what DIDN'T we like?

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At the start of the movie, they also lampshade this -- I think one of the arriving SHIELD agents (if that's who they are) says something like, "Why wasn't this found before?", and the guy who was there to greet them responds with, "this landscape is changing all the time".

Not only did the ending show the Wing settling/melting into the ice, but snowstorms would have soon covered all of the wreckage and the scars of the crash.
Ya, I was telling Marvin about that comment in the beginning of the movie a few days ago .... he didn't like that answer either. LOL.

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Old 07-26-2011, 11:06 AM   #47
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I've seen this point posted several times and I completely disagree. There was an entire scene taking place in a bar afterwords dedicated to his sadness and trying to get drunk because of it (though he can't because of the serum effects). I don't know how that's not proper impact...he was clearly effected for awhile and depressed.

You want to talk about not having proper impact due to a death...look at Matrix Revelations and Trinity's death...that was ridiculous. "OH NOES! you is impaled and now dead...*sad face*...anyways, moving on."
I actually agree with that guy. Evan's appeared somber, but depressed? I dunno about that.

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Old 07-26-2011, 11:08 AM   #48
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@ rock and sganna

I still don't.

The Titanic went down in the first decade of that century, moreover no one was really watching it and it almost literally went straight into the water.

Everyone knew where the wing launched from, they new where it was heading and they knew it's exact path. Given it's speed and the time of Steve's last transmission I'm sure even a grade 6 math student could tell you where it went down. They were so on top of the situation that (if I remember correctly) the Atwell character is prepared to give Steve coordinates on where to touch down. I sorry but I'm having a hard time believing the tech (even in the marvel verse) had advanced so little in the 30 years post 1912 that they couldn't have pulled a better(more urgent) search and rescue op than what they hare trying to pass off in said film.

And when exactly would they have been able to find it? I mean sputnik was launched in the 50's right. Was Stark jut too busy inventing a new element to care anymore.

They can track the cube, one switch of the script and they would be able to track he ship energy signature by the very same means...unless it wasn't convenient to the plot.

Moreover, the post credit commercial/scene in Thor spoke about shield wanting to tap the power source of the cube? huh? Fury can't have possibly meant the same thing Zola and co. accomplished 70 years prior. I won't believe it...again, stark and his obsession with that damn element lol.

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Old 07-26-2011, 11:13 AM   #49
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Not enough 40's slang. I didn't want it to be cartoonish or over the top with it, but I didn't really hear much of any of it and a couple of those crazy 40's-isms would have been nice.

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Old 07-26-2011, 11:14 AM   #50
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@ rock and sganna

I still don't.

The Titanic went down in the first decade of that century, moreover no one was really watching it and it almost literally went straight into the water.

Everyone knew where the wing launched from, they new where it was heading and they knew it's exact path. Given it's speed and the time of Steve's last transmission I'm sure even a grade 6 math student could tell you where it went down. They were so on top of the situation that (if I remember correctly) the Atwell character is prepared to give Steve coordinates on where to touch down. I sorry but I'm having a hard time believing the tech (even in the marvel verse) had advanced so little in the 30 years post 1912 that they couldn't have pulled a better(more urgent) search and rescue op than what they hare trying to pass off in said film.
You're still not understanding. They got within the general vicinity, it wasn't a question of that. However they still weren't able to find it. The landscape, weather, and no trace of the cube's energy readings prevented it.

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