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Old 07-26-2011, 05:33 PM   #101
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Default Re: So what DIDN'T we like?

But she was a British AGENT. This was touched on when she punches Hodges in the drill sergeant scene. She also says to Steve when he says "I got beat up in that alley" that she's been trying to overcome something her whole life as well which I can only imagine to mean the female stereotype.

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Old 07-26-2011, 05:35 PM   #102
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Default Re: So what DIDN'T we like?

^Yeah, I picked up on that as well. The movie just didn't choose to dwell on that aspect.

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Old 07-26-2011, 05:38 PM   #103
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You misunderstood the movie. The plane never emitted an energy signature. It was the cube. "But the energy signature stop's here." The cube was emitting an energy signature, the plane never did. They didn't actually know where the plane hit the ground. Hence why it was basically impossible to locate.
I think they had way too much information not to know, using traditional means of tracking and triangulation.

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Old 07-26-2011, 05:39 PM   #104
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I think they had way too much information not to know, using traditional means of tracking and triangulation.
What were the traditional means in the 1940's which would pinpoint exactly where he's at? I will wait as you Google.

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Old 07-26-2011, 05:48 PM   #105
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What were the traditional means in the 1940's which would pinpoint exactly where he's at? I will wait as you Google.
before I indulge you, i bid you explain to me exactly what 1940's means Mr. Stark is using to track down the cube "energy" (then explain vita rays, that's always peaked my interest but not enough for a google search you see)

like I said before, they knew the origin point, the speed, the destination the duration, and the time of impact. Cap was intact apparently so I assume his two way was working(unless he wasn't wearing one) they could track that. Someone said the ship was off course, yea cap shifted it 45 degress south. Tracking radio signals is great deal easier than unknown cube energy(even in the faux 1940s).

It does help if the radios are transmitting I'll give you that.

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Old 07-26-2011, 06:00 PM   #106
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So it was emitting an energy up until it hit the ground? So if they know where it went down, just concentrate your search in that area. Would it take even 5 years if you know where to look? Just seems like they want it both ways, Stark has all this crazy cutting-edge technology but oh, we don't have the technology to find this giant ship in the snow. I'm not saying it ruins the movie but again, the filmmakers themselves obviously saw that this way an issue or they wouldn't have added that pre-emptive expository dialouge.
But he didn't have Hydra technology. Remember he couldn't even figure out how that submarine even worked. The only radar that had the ship was that very plane, no one else knew where he was at.

How long did it take to find the Titanic? And added to the fact that people knew where it sunk.

Who's to say SHIELD or whoever even gave him 5 years to even figure out how the Cube gave those vehicles power. I doubt they even gave him 5 days to play with the Cube.

All he had to work with was that small bit of the cube that Cap brought back from the first rescue mission and it blew up on him.

Finding that plane would've been like a blind person looking for a needle in a haystack.

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Old 07-26-2011, 06:06 PM   #107
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before I indulge you, i bid you explain to me exactly what 1940's means Mr. Stark is using to track down the cube "energy" (then explain vita rays, that's always peaked my interest but not enough for a google search you see)

like I said before, they knew the origin point, the speed, the destination the duration, and the time of impact. Cap was intact apparently so I assume his two way was working(unless he wasn't wearing one) they could track that. Someone said the ship was off course, yea cap shifted it 45 degress south. Tracking radio signals is great deal easier than unknown cube energy(even in the faux 1940s).

It does help if the radios are transmitting I'll give you that.
How did they know the speed of the bomber? All they knew was where point of origin was and the destination. We don't know how long it took the ship at sea to even get remotely close to the area. By that time what was remaining of the bomber could've already moved about as the ice and landscape shifted. Radio frequency ended upon crashing to so it wouldn't have remained as that movement occurred.

Stark was able to trace the energy source of the cube IMO because of how strong the energy signal is from the thing and they already had measured that radiation (I'm sure) when they tested it in the lab. You're insinuating that because of Stark's tech saavy, he'd be able to find anything. He clearly has limitations as indicated by the scene with the car and the one with the submarine.

What's next? We gonna sit there and wonder why Cap didn't try to jump off the plane before impact? I mean it's pointless.


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Old 07-26-2011, 06:12 PM   #108
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Default Re: So what DIDN'T we like?

At the begining the guy who called the finding of the wreckage in says pretty clearly that the landscape changes contsantly up there with all the weather.

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Old 07-26-2011, 06:22 PM   #109
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You guys are griping about them being able to find the cube but not the plane and Cap. Well let me tell you why, Cause they aren't suppose to. He's suppose to be found and thawed out in the future. So there you go. Jeez people work with the known origin and history we know of Cap.

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Old 07-26-2011, 06:28 PM   #110
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But he didn't have Hydra technology. Remember he couldn't even figure out how that submarine even worked.
Reverse engineering aside, Stark and co had crazy tech of their own.

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The only radar that had the ship was that very plane, no one else knew where he was at.
So your sure the Hydra flight deck had no way of tracking it's own ship? I recall a shot of at least one or two radar screens that were operating.

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How long did it take to find the Titanic? And added to the fact that people knew where it sunk.
1945 and 1912 is along time to compare such a task.

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Finding that plane would've been like a blind person looking for a needle in a haystack.
That's an analogy based on an assumption. The script could have just as easily read that they found him in 2 hours and we'd all accept it.

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You guys are griping about them being able to find the cube but not the plane and Cap. Well let me tell you why, Cause they aren't suppose to. He's suppose to be found and thawed out in the future. So there you go. Jeez people work with the known origin and history we know of Cap.
That doesn't excuse a plot hole(that was changed from the source material)

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Old 07-26-2011, 06:43 PM   #111
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How did they know the speed of the bomber?
The same way any launch terminal knows the speed it the aircraft that depart and arrive, radio tracking. We know origin, destination, (speed), and time. The scientists of the time and even before it were tracking and predicting the movement/impact and locations of celestial bodies with less information and tools at their disposal. If people in comic books are as smart as they seem I'd just imagine it'd be simple fun. I swear Reed Richards could find such a thing in a few minutes with less intel. (And Reed won't be inventing elements anytime soon)

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All they knew was where point of origin was and the destination. We don't know how long it took the ship at sea to even get remotely close to the area. By that time what was remaining of the bomber could've already moved about as the ice and landscape shifted. Radio frequency ended upon crashing to so it wouldn't have remained as that movement occurred.
Though I'm not sure why they would only take a ship out there in the first place. How far are you implying the ice moved this thing(in the many days it took to get out there) anyways? over or less than 100 square kilometers?

Quote:
Stark was able to trace the energy source of the cube IMO because of how strong the energy signal is from the thing and they already had measured that radiation (I'm sure) when they tested it in the lab. You're insinuating that because of Stark's tech saavy, he'd be able to find anything. He clearly has limitations as indicated by the scene with the car and the one with the submarine.
You see if your going to imply that it was indeed the radiation signature that Stark studied and was tracking, you've gotta admit that the ship(and it's massive cube powered engines) would have carried the same signature as well. You don't just turn that stuff off. The half life is like in the many thousands of years.

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What's next? We gonna sit there and wonder why Cap didn't try to jump off the plane before impact? I mean it's pointless.
That's actually a very interesting question my friend, would have solved a lot of problems for him and or me.

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Old 07-26-2011, 06:43 PM   #112
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Hail Hydra

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Old 07-26-2011, 07:06 PM   #113
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Default Re: So what DIDN'T we like?

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Reverse engineering aside, Stark and co had crazy tech of their own.

So your sure the Hydra flight deck had no way of tracking it's own ship? I recall a shot of at least one or two radar screens that were operating.

1945 and 1912 is along time to compare such a task.


That's an analogy based on an assumption. The script could have just as easily read that they found him in 2 hours and we'd all accept it.

That doesn't excuse a plot hole(that was changed from the source material)
Again, it wasn't Hydra tech. Remember Howard was limited by the technology of his time as he put it in Iron Man 2.

Not really, not when it took multiple atempts to look for Titanic even through the 40s. And Titanic was about 3 times the size of the ship Cap went down in. And people knew the spot where it sunk.

But it wasn't an assumption, Stark was stearing blind looking for a ship that obviously wasn't getting picked up by his radar.

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Old 07-26-2011, 07:21 PM   #114
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I think they had way too much information not to know, using traditional means of tracking and triangulation.
How? They obviously couldn't track Skull's technology easily, or else they would have found all his bases and attacked him much sooner. Steve obviously wasn't tech savvy enough to set up some kind of tracking system, and he didn't have much time.

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Old 07-26-2011, 08:18 PM   #115
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Default Re: So what DIDN'T we like?

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I agree. I would have liked to have seen Hitler or the Nazis. The Red Skull was supposed to be Hitler's right hand man. Seemed odd they'd shy away from Nazis in a WW2 movie. I don't think we saw one swastika. I was just reading an old issue where the Skull was saying how sickened he was by these inferior 'blacks and jews and fops.' Woulda seemed a bit more real. Instead they seemed to want to keep the bad guys lightweight. Cartoony. Nazi-lite.
The Nazis Skull dealt with clearly had the Swastika arm-band on. I'm pretty sure fake Hitler had one too.

My complaints:

. Lack of Nazis, I do wish we could of seen atleast one action scene with Cap taking on Nazis.

. I wanted to see Hitler's reaction to HYDRA leaving. It would of been cool if the final battle scene also had Nazis attacking the Skull's lair & fighting the Army troops at the same time.

. I wish it was longer just because it was so damn entertaining!

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Old 07-26-2011, 08:24 PM   #116
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You also see a swastika on a flag during the newsreel where Steve tells that guy to shut up and then gets the crap beaten out of him. Schmidt also has the swastika arm band on during Erskine's recalling montage the night before the proceedure on Steve.

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Old 07-26-2011, 08:34 PM   #117
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The whole part about Hydra splitting from Germany seemed rushed. And it does raise a few questions. Exactly how did Hydra continue to operate after that in Axis territory?

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Old 07-26-2011, 08:42 PM   #118
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That's the kind of question sequels are made to answer.

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Old 07-26-2011, 08:44 PM   #119
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First ever post.About the Stark Expo.Wouldn't all the lights attract all sorts of trouble from U-Boats?I believe that most of the East Coast had a blackout policy so as not to silouhette ships.Then again,if anyone could pull it off,Howard Stark could.

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Old 07-26-2011, 08:48 PM   #120
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That's the kind of question sequels are made to answer.
I feel that should have been addressed in the movie. Hitler was a guy who had his best general killed, because he might have heard that someone was going to try to kill him. Seems like the Red Skull openly betraying him, and vaporizing his men would have ticked him off.

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Old 07-26-2011, 09:24 PM   #121
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Again, it wasn't Hydra tech. Remember Howard was limited by the technology of his time as he put it in Iron Man 2.
As limited as the (US) tech was, it was advanced enough to create a super soldier in that day and age, refine and mold the strongest metal probably ever conceived in fiction, develop prototype hover cars...etc Stark and co, had a lot of advanced tech in their deck and more importantly, the means to create more wonderful things to help them do(and find) other wonderful things.

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Not really, not when it took multiple atempts to look for Titanic even through the 40s. And Titanic was about 3 times the size of the ship Cap went down in. And people knew the spot where it sunk.
If the Titanic was carrying nukes and terrorists, launched from a then allied occupied base and was brought down en route to the largest city in the free world within minutes and without radio silence, I have a feeling the greatest American Scientists of the day would be able to find it within a few hours. More importantly they would have the urgency too. And even if they couldn't, that much should inform how different the situation in fact was. The 1912 ship went down silent in the night with only flares and the hope that some boats would reach it long after it was in the black water. Survivors were saved and then I'm sure they got around to actually going down for the ship whenever they developed the tech to do so(I'm assuming not the next day). The world of CA had subs that would put batman and robin to shame. Why not send the hydrofoils? Helicopters were around in the 40's, I'd even say the marvel verse had them in abundance) Did peggy just assume it was pointless?

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How? They obviously couldn't track Skull's technology easily, or else they would have found all his bases and attacked him much sooner. Steve obviously wasn't tech savvy enough to set up some kind of tracking system, and he didn't have much time.
Actually all a level headed Steve would have needed was a two way radio, just about any soldier even one with half the intelligence cap is supposed to have would only be so lucky...a one way radio even, though a passionate goodbye did seem more urgent I suppose.

Never said they could track skulls tech or his bases, but a ship, they were in radio contact with right up until and after it's crash is hardly a hidden hydra base.

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Old 07-26-2011, 09:38 PM   #122
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I don't think they needed to explain for 20 minutes why the plane couldn't be found. Suspension of disbelief is good enough here. AKA, I don't care.

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Old 07-26-2011, 09:40 PM   #123
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Well we all knew they weren't going to find him. I mean, how else was he supposed to be trapped in ice for 70 years.

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Old 07-26-2011, 09:43 PM   #124
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This conversation is so patently ridiculous it's not even funny. Marvin, give it a rest man. They offered an explanation ..... that's better than no explanation .... and yet that scene seems to have you losing sleep over it. You make a lot of conjecture about what "would have been done" back then and you assume because Stark can create one thing he most certainly can create the other. It's not necessary. The scene did exactly what it was designed to do, effectively in most peoples' eyes.

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Old 07-26-2011, 09:45 PM   #125
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I don't think they needed to explain for 20 minutes why the plane couldn't be found. Suspension of disbelief is good enough here. AKA, I don't care.
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