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Old 07-29-2011, 07:34 PM   #151
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Default Re: The Official Captain America: The First Avenger Review Thread! - Part 1

I don't see what's so wrong with genuinely good natured characters. I don't think they're boring at all. They serve as something we as people should strive to be. Although it's difficult since we live in such cynical and ****ed up times. The fact that someone like Cap or Superman go about their ways and want to do good in the first place because they want to do good is a thing we need. Without these characters, it would suck. We need them. Yes, they're fictional, but their ideals and character can be possible and made real.

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Old 07-29-2011, 07:49 PM   #152
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Old 07-29-2011, 07:50 PM   #153
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Default Re: The Official Captain America: The First Avenger Review Thread! - Part 1

Steve would make a perfect role model. I mean who wouldn't look up to him. Every time I hear the song "Head Strong" by Trapt it reminds me of pre-serum Steve.

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Old 07-29-2011, 08:24 PM   #154
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I don't see what's so wrong with genuinely good natured characters. I don't think they're boring at all. They serve as something we as people should strive to be. Although it's difficult since we live in such cynical and ****ed up times. The fact that someone like Cap or Superman go about their ways and want to do good in the first place because they want to do good is a thing we need. Without these characters, it would suck. We need them.Yes, they're fictional, but they're ideals and character can be possible and made real.
Itís refreshing to see a lead hero be just that... a hero. Steve is no morbid vigalante or narcissitic self absorbed anti-hero. Heís the real deal. His tough life hasn't made him bitter or jaded. In fact, itís done just the opposite. Heís needed to develop character because his body didnít develop and his parents died whe he was young. This is the key to Cap both in the books and in the film. Heart and character trump the physical elements and are what truly makes the character itself special. Even after he's given the great gift of being a ďsuper soldier,Ē he still continues to do the right thing. Itís not to prove anything to anyone other than himself because he has a high moral code. I love the fact that they choose his character for the experiment because he wouldnít take advantage of the gift. Thatís smart writing. Shades of gray are great in film (and there are those tones present here) but sometimes itís good to have character of pure heart, pure integrity and true morality take it to what history and everyone knows was pure evil. Itís refreshing to sit back and root for the ultimate good to take it to the ultimate bad guys. Itís why I loved Raiders of the Lost Ark and itís why I now love this film.

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Old 07-29-2011, 08:49 PM   #155
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Default Re: The Official Captain America: The First Avenger Review Thread! - Part 1

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I don't see what's so wrong with genuinely good natured characters. I don't think they're boring at all. They serve as something we as people should strive to be. Although it's difficult since we live in such cynical and ****ed up times. The fact that someone like Cap or Superman go about their ways and want to do good in the first place because they want to do good is a thing we need. Without these characters, it would suck. We need them.Yes, they're fictional, but they're ideals and character can be possible and made real.

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Old 07-29-2011, 09:07 PM   #156
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Default Re: The Official Captain America: The First Avenger Review Thread! - Part 1

We're in a ver cynical age in both society and cinema, and I am glad Captain America didn't go that route and that Marvel Studios is giving us more fun films. I hate that all blockbusters have to be "edgy" or "dark" in order to be liked. It's a stupid trend, and I am tired of it.

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Old 07-29-2011, 09:14 PM   #157
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Default Re: The Official Captain America: The First Avenger Review Thread! - Part 1

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I don't see what's so wrong with genuinely good natured characters. I don't think they're boring at all. They serve as something we as people should strive to be. Although it's difficult since we live in such cynical and ****ed up times. The fact that someone like Cap or Superman go about their ways and want to do good in the first place because they want to do good is a thing we need. Without these characters, it would suck. We need them.Yes, they're fictional, but they're ideals and character can be possible and made real.
This is why Cap has remained my favorite out of all the Avengers.

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Old 07-29-2011, 09:24 PM   #158
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Default Re: The Official Captain America: The First Avenger Review Thread! - Part 1

It's the same with Superman. People don't seem to realize it, but imagine a world without Superman and Batman came first. That wouldn't even be possible I don't think. Superman had to be first. Super Hero comes from Superman. The word hero is taken heavily into account for Superman and Cap. Then comes Batman which is the complete opposite and is fine, but he could have never have come first. Superman maintains the idea of the do gooder. The man we all strive to be do do right and good. Then in the years to come, the idea of a super powered man is there, but he's not a hero through and through. It's a variation of things now. So yes, the real genuine do gooder had to come first.

These characters morals and ideals are as real as anything outside the page and in this world. It's why I love superheroes and call ******** on the whole, "But they're ficitonal" arguement. The people who object to this are just jaded or just snobs while they go on with their hypocritical thinking of worshipping sports stars they've never met and can only dream to be where some of them will wind up in jail. Some role model. It's not about how real it is of becoming the person, it's about their characterisitics.

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Old 07-29-2011, 09:30 PM   #159
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Default Re: The Official Captain America: The First Avenger Review Thread! - Part 1

Now if Zack could manage to make a great Superman film, maybe it will be successful.

The genre will always go back to the Christopher Reeves. We need a great Superman film right now. He is the most iconic and he is the best there is. If it turns out bad, it will be more tragic than anything else.

This Captain America film is a big step in the right direction with these kind of heroes. A great movie that will hopefully inspire people and younger kids to do more good in this world...which unfortunately isn't all that good.

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Old 07-29-2011, 09:34 PM   #160
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Default Re: The Official Captain America: The First Avenger Review Thread! - Part 1

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Now when Zack manages to make a great Superman film.

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Old 07-29-2011, 09:40 PM   #161
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Default Re: The Official Captain America: The First Avenger Review Thread! - Part 1

I see what you did there

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Old 07-29-2011, 09:48 PM   #162
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Default Re: The Official Captain America: The First Avenger Review Thread! - Part 1

Just came back, I had a great time, it's a very very good movie!!!
I loved the vibe, the atmosphere of it, all the links to the other Marvel movies (did I hear an Iron Man-related sound any time an Hydra artifact was shooting?), the characters and specially the superhero-retro-war movie mix, I think it worked perfectly.
I may write a longer review later, just wanted to come by and say how great the film actually is.
(On a box-office related note, the film was #1 here in Argentina on opening day)

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Old 07-29-2011, 10:08 PM   #163
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Default Re: The Official Captain America: The First Avenger Review Thread! - Part 1

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I don't see what's so wrong with genuinely good natured characters. I don't think they're boring at all. They serve as something we as people should strive to be. Although it's difficult since we live in such cynical and ****ed up times. The fact that someone like Cap or Superman go about their ways and want to do good in the first place because they want to do good is a thing we need. Without these characters, it would suck. We need them. Yes, they're fictional, but their ideals and character can be possible and made real.
^This.

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Old 07-29-2011, 10:11 PM   #164
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Default Re: The Official Captain America: The First Avenger Review Thread! - Part 1

Cap needs to be the ideal, genuine good guy. People may love Wolverine and Punisher, but if you where to study there characters through the years you see that both respect and at time try to live up to the example captain america sets. he is the one guy in the Marvel universe every person respects and everyone will follow. to me if a man is willing to go stand and fight for what he thinks is right, even as others are saying no and throwing things in his way. That is a hero. Cap is in the same vein as so many soilders before who put there lives on line to defend others.

Anyway loved the movie. It may be my fav marvel studio yet I said that about thor to and then said it wqas tied with iron man so it may end up being a three way tie lol.

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Old 07-29-2011, 10:13 PM   #165
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Default Re: The Official Captain America: The First Avenger Review Thread! - Part 1

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We're in a ver cynical age in both society and cinema, and I am glad Captain America didn't go that route and that Marvel Studios is giving us more fun films. I hate that all blockbusters have to be "edgy" or "dark" in order to be liked. It's a stupid trend, and I am tired of it.
Agreed; I think we've come to the point where seeing a tormented hero, or a person who's rise towards becoming a hero is due to some type of tragedy, or unwillingness, of if the protagonist themselves are more anti hero like...is becoming somewhat of a tired trend now.lol

I'd say that it was the start of Burton's Batman that people wanted to see a more edgier and grittier type of hero in contrast to the clean cut image of what CR presented as Superman in the media.

Now, some of us are yearning for the heroes that started the whole hero trend to begin with, and those are the good old fashioned heroes who are just plain good to begin with.

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Old 07-29-2011, 11:16 PM   #166
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Default Re: The Official Captain America: The First Avenger Review Thread! - Part 1

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I don't see what's so wrong with genuinely good natured characters. I don't think they're boring at all. They serve as something we as people should strive to be. Although it's difficult since we live in such cynical and ****ed up times. The fact that someone like Cap or Superman go about their ways and want to do good in the first place because they want to do good is a thing we need. Without these characters, it would suck. We need them. Yes, they're fictional, but their ideals and character can be possible and made real.
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It’s refreshing to see a lead hero be just that... a hero. Steve is no morbid vigalante or narcissitic self absorbed anti-hero. He’s the real deal. His tough life hasn't made him bitter or jaded. In fact, it’s done just the opposite. He’s needed to develop character because his body didn’t develop and his parents died whe he was young. This is the key to Cap both in the books and in the film. Heart and character trump the physical elements and are what truly makes the character itself special. Even after he's given the great gift of being a “super soldier,” he still continues to do the right thing. It’s not to prove anything to anyone other than himself because he has a high moral code. I love the fact that they choose his character for the experiment because he wouldn’t take advantage of the gift. That’s smart writing. Shades of gray are great in film (and there are those tones present here) but sometimes it’s good to have character of pure heart, pure integrity and true morality take it to what history and everyone knows was pure evil. It’s refreshing to sit back and root for the ultimate good to take it to the ultimate bad guys. It’s why I loved Raiders of the Lost Ark and it’s why I now love this film.


Cap was great and Evans did a fantastic job. His performance was in that Christopher Reeve/Mark Hamill class of good guy performances.

The movie was so awesome, I was so shocked it was go excellent. I literally had a smile on my face the whole time.

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Old 07-29-2011, 11:29 PM   #167
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Default Re: The Official Captain America: The First Avenger Review Thread! - Part 1

if only cyclops would of gotten the same treatment another guy people label as boring when the really dont get him

same with supes

also to be honest captain america was more a intriguing character than thor and iron man imo

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Old 07-29-2011, 11:31 PM   #168
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Default Re: The Official Captain America: The First Avenger Review Thread! - Part 1

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I don't see what's so wrong with genuinely good natured characters. I don't think they're boring at all. They serve as something we as people should strive to be. Although it's difficult since we live in such cynical and ****ed up times. The fact that someone like Cap or Superman go about their ways and want to do good in the first place because they want to do good is a thing we need. Without these characters, it would suck. We need them. Yes, they're fictional, but their ideals and character can be possible and made real.
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Itís refreshing to see a lead hero be just that... a hero. Steve is no morbid vigalante or narcissitic self absorbed anti-hero. Heís the real deal. His tough life hasn't made him bitter or jaded. In fact, itís done just the opposite. Heís needed to develop character because his body didnít develop and his parents died whe he was young. This is the key to Cap both in the books and in the film. Heart and character trump the physical elements and are what truly makes the character itself special. Even after he's given the great gift of being a ďsuper soldier,Ē he still continues to do the right thing. Itís not to prove anything to anyone other than himself because he has a high moral code. I love the fact that they choose his character for the experiment because he wouldnít take advantage of the gift. Thatís smart writing. Shades of gray are great in film (and there are those tones present here) but sometimes itís good to have character of pure heart, pure integrity and true morality take it to what history and everyone knows was pure evil. Itís refreshing to sit back and root for the ultimate good to take it to the ultimate bad guys. Itís why I loved Raiders of the Lost Ark and itís why I now love this film.
That describes exactly why I love the character and the movie. That is why I love Doc Savage too. Someone out to help people...because it's the right thing to do. It's as simple as that.

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Old 07-29-2011, 11:32 PM   #169
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also to be honest captain america was more a intriguing character than thor and iron man imo
I agree. Cap's always been my favorite Marvel character though.

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Old 07-29-2011, 11:35 PM   #170
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I'm loving the discussion Cap has inspired on the whole hero vs. anti-hero thing. I saw the movie for the second time today and enjoyed it even more than the first; having gotten past the surprises from my first viewing, I was able to really soak in everything: the acting, the cinematography, the action, the music. This is certainly in the top tier of superhero films for me. As soon as I came out of the screening, I ended up buying the movie soundtrack, a Captain America graphic novel and a copy of the Ultimate Avengers DVD.

Really, the only complaint I would have about this movie is that it was too short. Everything else, as far as I was concerned, was pretty much perfect, and I don't think I could have asked for a better Captain America movie. Maybe this sounds like hyperbole, but if a movie makes me feel this strongly about it it must be doing something right.

Chris Evans IS Captain America. Although I was skeptical when he was first cast - mainly because he had already played the Human Torch, I admit - throughout the production I gradually warmed up to him. I would say it was after watching Sunshine that I became convinced he had a fair shot of playing a good Cap. The interviews with him further reinforced in my mind that this guy really got the character of Steve Rogers, and when we started seeing production stills, trailer footage, I was amazed by his appearance and the fact that he seemed to nail Steve's heart and gumption. But actually seeing him in the movie...wow. Kudos to the special effects team - the effects used for skinny Steve were absolutely seamless, and you could easily accept that this was a real guy, both before and after Project: Rebirth.

I definitely don't buy the argument that by being a good man, Steve Rogers is a boring character. On the contrary...as many people have pointed out, the fact that he was able to retain a strong moral center despite having so many obstacles thrown at him was really inspiring. I think that's why Superman is my favourite superhero - I like the idea of a hero you can look up to. But in that sense, Rogers is even more heroic, because he spent most of his life being beat up, bullied, with no parents, etc. He never let that stuff get him down. Some people might think that's bland. Personally...it makes me want to be a better person. I think that really says it all: when a movie character makes you want to improve yourself, THAT is a hero, and it really explains why Cap is the leader of the Avengers, and why I think Chris will be able to convey that sense even alongside heavyweight stars like Robert Downey Jr. Tony Stark is incredibly cool and charismatic, but I never felt the desire to emulate his example. Steve Rogers, thanks to the script and Evans' performance, seems to make it cool to be a do-gooder, and that's something we need more of in such a cynical and jaded modern world.

I can't say enough about the supporting cast. Stanley Tucci is the heart and soul of this movie. As Erskine, the adjective "warm" seems to describe his character better than any. That speech of his - about not being "a perfect soldier, but a good man" really got to me. He was also funny a lot of the time, and you really feel his death as a great loss.

Hugo Weaving - incredible. I've heard some people say he's almost too good for the role, given that Red Skull is kind of a two-dimensional character (i.e. he's evil and power-mad, and that's pretty much it). Honestly, I don't have a problem with that. Part of the charm of this movie was its old school feel, harkening back to a simpler time when good and evil seemed much more clearly defined. Weaving was a delight to watch every time he was on screen. To be fair, both Red Skull and HYDRA were quite cheesy at times - I couldn't help laughing whenever his minions did the "Hail HYDRA!" salute - but that was fine, because it made it seem even more like a mega-budgeted 1940s serial. While I was clamouring before the release for Cap to kick some Nazi ass, it didn't really matter in the end that he mostly fought HYDRA. I really can't imagine any Germans being offended by this movie. Inglourious Basterds it ain't.

Sebastian Stan was a pleasant surprise as Bucky Barnes. I wouldn't have expected to say this about a character named "Bucky Barnes" known for being Captain America's sidekick, but Bucky was totally BADASS. I loved this new Band of Brothers version of the character, and he hinted at a darker complexity lurking beneath the surface with possible jealousy toward Steve over Peggy and maybe even the Super Soldier Serum. I'd love to see him return as the Winter Soldier, and Joe Johnston's expressed interest in that plotline makes me even more hopeful. Bucky wasn't onscreen enough, so he definitely deserves more screentime.

Tommy Lee Jones, as everyone has already pointed out, stole every scene he was in. Far from being a glorified cameo where he was phoning it in (in the sense of Marlon Brando as Jor-El), Jones got the best lines, was there until the end and had the audience laughing consistently. It'll be a shame not to see Gen. Phillips in any future Cap adventures.

On that note, Hayley Atwell may have been my favourite female character in any of these Marvel movies, and potentially any superhero movie to date. Let me start by being blunt and slightly uncouth: the woman has an amazing rack, and I had to pick my jaw off the floor after that scene with the red dress. But physical charms alone do not a character make - just ask Megan Fox. No, Atwell created a character we actually cared about and I fully bought her relationship with Steve. There was something very sweetly old-fashioned about their mutual attraction. The way it was presented - she was clearly impressed by Steve even prior to the transformation, with his bravery in the grenade incident and his courage in the face of bullies, emphasized at the end when she looks at a photo of him skinny rather than buffed-out - really tugged at the heartstrings, and gives the ending a tragic element that feels like anything but a tacked-on plot formula.

Dominic Cooper as Howard Stark - charming. You can really see the elements of Tony Stark in there, while he nevertheless gives off a distinct, young Howard Hughes vibe of his own.

The music was excellent - it's nice to have a superhero movie with a recognizable theme again, and that "Star Spangled Man" sequence is awesome. I loved how they incorporated all the different costumes for Cap - the classic Kirby outfit, the Ultimate costume, and the special movie costume. I really just came out of this movie feeling great and looking forward to The Avengers even more than before. For anyone who had doubts about Joe Johnston's capability to deliver a great Cap film - well, if I ever had any, I certainly don't anymore.

There's one last thing I want to say, and it pertains to the contrast between this movie and the last superhero film I watched, Green Lantern. The difference couldn't be starker - the director of this film really got the character, understood his appeal, and included pretty much everything a fan might want to see. But the most intriguing contrast comes down to the very appeal of superheroes.

Remember those bits in Green Lantern where Hector Hammond vents at Hal, basically, for being a tall, good-looking pilot who gets all the girls? At times it felt like that movie could have been written by a bunch of vengeful jocks. The villain is an embittered nerd angry that he can't get the girl, while the hero is an outgoing player who looks like a male model. It was awfully jarring to see that in a movie whose core fanbase is, to generalize a bit, quite nerdy.

Now compare that to Cap, where we see a physically weak character who gets beat up a lot, doesn't get any of the girls, but is brave and has a good heart - and THEN he gets this gift that turns him into a chiseled Super Soldier, yet retains his strong moral center. That, to me, is the very appeal of superheroes at their most basic level. I can't speak for everyone, of course, but one of the reasons I love superheroes so much is that wish fulfillment aspect. On the outside, you may be nerdy, socially inept Clark Kent - but underneath you're SUPERMAN. Peter Parker is a science geek who reveals his inner hero. Bruce Banner lets out his repressed inner rage to become a primal force of nature. I could go on, but isn't this one of the biggest draws of the superhero genre - the idea that these are seemingly ordinary people, who may not be the most impressive physical specimens, who take a lot of ****, but beneath their unimpressive exteriors there's a hero just waiting to shine?

I love that theme. It's the kind of thing that Ronnie James Dio sang about in "The Last in Line", and it's probably the reason superheroes appeal so much to me. Captain America got that - Green Lantern didn't. Cap made me feel the way I did when I saw the first Spider-Man movie back in 2002, and it was a delight to be inspired in that way. If the movie has any flaws...clearly, they didn't matter much to me. I can't wait to see it again.

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Old 07-29-2011, 11:38 PM   #171
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Agreed; I think we've come to the point where seeing a tormented hero, or a person who's rise towards becoming a hero is due to some type of tragedy, or unwillingness, of if the protagonist themselves are more anti hero like...is becoming somewhat of a tired trend now.
Actually, this reminds me of another thing I hated about GL - the idea that Hal was blessed with this incredible power, had a 10-minute training session, and then spends the bulk of the movie whining that he doesn't want to be a hero, etc. Even before he gets the Super Soldier Serum, Steve Rogers is someone to look up to because he always wants to do the right thing, even if - especially if - it's not easy.

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Old 07-29-2011, 11:38 PM   #172
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Default Re: The Official Captain America: The First Avenger Review Thread! - Part 1

Come to think of it, Green Lantern was a bit mean spirited lol.

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Old 07-29-2011, 11:46 PM   #173
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Default Re: The Official Captain America: The First Avenger Review Thread! - Part 1

@ Axl Van Sixx

THAT was the BEST review I've read for this movie! Well done!

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Old 07-29-2011, 11:56 PM   #174
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Default Re: The Official Captain America: The First Avenger Review Thread! - Part 1

Great review Axl. You really got the movie and you get Cap. I loved how Cap was always decent and humble, even after becoming this incredible adonis-he was still the same good man, like Erskine wanted him to be. And I loved the friendship between Steve and Erskine in the film. I've read Cap's origin hundreds of times, and this is the first version where Erskine's death actually made me very very sad.

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Old 07-30-2011, 12:03 AM   #175
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Default Re: The Official Captain America: The First Avenger Review Thread! - Part 1

Quote:
Originally Posted by herolee10 View Post
Agreed; I think we've come to the point where seeing a tormented hero, or a person who's rise towards becoming a hero is due to some type of tragedy, or unwillingness, of if the protagonist themselves are more anti hero like...is becoming somewhat of a tired trend now.lol

I'd say that it was the start of Burton's Batman that people wanted to see a more edgier and grittier type of hero in contrast to the clean cut image of what CR presented as Superman in the media.

Now, some of us are yearning for the heroes that started the whole hero trend to begin with, and those are the good old fashioned heroes who are just plain good to begin with.
Batman has made the "tormented soul" very popular, but he isn't the only one. Just look at the vast majority of all blockbusters right now. Look at what people praise. When a movie is good, often times the first thing they praise is that it was "so dark!" and that is not really a good/bad thing. That is just the route the story went. What I hate is when I see a movie get dark, when it didn't need to. Films force it more now.

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