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View Poll Results: Who was the better Batman / Bruce Wayne, and why? | |||
Christian Bale (Batman Begins and The Dark Knight) |
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265 | 61.20% |
Michael Keaton (B89 and Batman Returns) |
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168 | 38.80% |
Voters: 433. You may not vote on this poll |
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#76 | ||
The Clown Prince of Crime
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Arkham Asylum
Posts: 48,919
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He's still driven by justice or do you consider his quest to bring down Two Face not a man driven by justice? He's still very much obsessive, which is why he sees in Dick what he saw in himself. It's why he takes him into his home. It's why he's adamant that Dick not kill Two Face because if he does he'll lose himself to the darkness like he did. He even mistakenly says "I killed them" when he's referring to the death of Dick's parents. Batman is a character depressed and haunted by his parents' death. For the first time we get to see it used effectively and not just as a plot device. Batman Begins also did something similar with Bruce being haunted by images of bats and having flashbacks to when his parents were killed. These are things that haunt him. Quote:
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"Sometimes I remember it one way. Sometimes another. If I'm going to have a past, I prefer it to be multiple choice!" - The Joker Last edited by The Joker; 08-13-2011 at 12:20 PM. |
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#77 | |||
Deadpan Snarker
Join Date: Jun 2009
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True, but I think he was haunted by his parents' deaths throughout the Burton films, and was emotionally scarred as a result of the experience.
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#78 | |||
The Clown Prince of Crime
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Arkham Asylum
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Whether you buy that or not is beside the point. That's the way it is in the movie. Quote:
In the end he over comes it. "I had to save them both. You see I'm both Bruce Wayne and Batman. Not because I have to be, but because I choose to be". Quote:
With Batman Forever it is made clear he's haunted and emotionally scarred by it to the point where he goes to see a psychiatrist to deal with it.
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"Sometimes I remember it one way. Sometimes another. If I'm going to have a past, I prefer it to be multiple choice!" - The Joker |
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#79 | |||||
Deadpan Snarker
Join Date: Jun 2009
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#80 | ||||
The Clown Prince of Crime
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Arkham Asylum
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Did you see any of the Red Triangle gang running in terror from Batman during the attacks on Gotham when there was dozens of them? Quote:
These are the aspects of Batman where you're supposed to suspend your belief. Quote:
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I lost my little brother several years ago. If someone said their little brother is missing or died, I could relate to it. It doesn't mean I'm haunted by it. I still miss him terribly, but I'm not haunted by it having nightmares and what not. Relating to someone's situation doesn't equate to being haunted by it.
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"Sometimes I remember it one way. Sometimes another. If I'm going to have a past, I prefer it to be multiple choice!" - The Joker |
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#81 | |||||
Deadpan Snarker
Join Date: Jun 2009
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I understand that disbelief must be suspended, but I feel that there should be some effort put in to make that suspension of disbelief easier in this case. Both Michael Keaton and Christian Bale succeeded in selling me on Batman being frightening to criminals. Val Kilmer makes no such effort, and, other than in the alley scene, there isn't an indication that criminals are afraid of him. Quote:
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Sorry about your loss.
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#82 | |
Side-Kick
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Your Mom's House
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I can't say the same about Returns, other than what has already been said about Cobblepot. |
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#83 | ||
Deadpan Snarker
Join Date: Jun 2009
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#84 | |
I AM SANDMAN HEAR ME ROAR
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 689
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That still irks me, why does he growl so much? I've never pictured Batman in any incarnation to need to growl to remain feared or to keep his identity a secret. I think Clooney's could possibly work in a live action TDK Returns movie. |
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#85 | |
I AM SANDMAN HEAR ME ROAR
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 689
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BF's remastered Red Book/Giant Bat scene: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SW8MMJ9NeHg A relaxed Kilmer asking Alfred the most important question of his life: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bEGl8FJ99sg Last edited by christpunchers; 08-13-2011 at 04:28 PM. |
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#86 |
I AM SANDMAN HEAR ME ROAR
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 689
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I have always thought it was lame to make Joker to be the Waynes' killer.
However I thought that maybe this is left to our interpretations. Perhaps Jack may or may not be the killer. This is because it's all in Bruce's head, it's all in memories and flashbacks. Keaton's Bruce Wayne is so psychotic that maybe his mind is playing tricks on him. He's subconsciously PROJECTING Jack's face onto the shadowy figure that he met a life time ago. It could have been a different Jack, it could have been anybody. Associating the two, the Killer and the Joker, just made his job easier because he finds more devotion. This confusion in regards to whether or not Jack killed his folks, or if it's Bruce just going mental, makes Keaton's take truly "mysterious". |
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#87 | |
I AM SANDMAN HEAR ME ROAR
Join Date: May 2005
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#88 | |
Side-Kick
Join Date: Jun 2008
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#89 |
Snap.
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Northwest Indiana
Posts: 76,466
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Burton just wanted to give him a greater reason to hate Joker and make it all relate. Nolan basically did it via inspiration from most of the books by having them relate due to Joker being obsessed with Batman and viewing him as a lifelong yin to his yang.
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If I had asked people what they wanted, they would have said faster horses. - Henry Ford ----------- Who the **** makes a movie and while planning it is like, "you know what this needs...is some Greg Kinnear." |
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#90 |
I AM SANDMAN HEAR ME ROAR
Join Date: May 2005
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Are we so sure that Bruce is not just having an episode? Memory can play tricks on us, especially if it's from so long ago. Maybe it's just up to the individual viewer to decide. I think it's best that way, it gives the film more gravity.
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#91 |
BARBARIAN
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: On the throne of Aquilonia
Posts: 65
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Michael Keaton anyday!
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#92 | |||
Deadpan Snarker
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 6,844
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#93 | |
BARBARIAN
Join Date: Aug 2011
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#94 |
Side-Kick
Join Date: May 2009
Location: New Jersey
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I think after Begins came out Kilmer's weak and mismatched portrayal was even more evident. Both Bale and Kilmer were all about the cave memories and the rememberance of the murder night. Yet ALL Kilmer did was being sad and depressed, and Bale was so much more complex and developed and multilayered and real. Even in the suit, Kilmer was just this sad guy. Sad. Even when he was fighting criminals he either looked sad or frightened. Keaton was always vicious looking, making angry eyes and facial expressions. Same with Bale. Plus Bale wasnt moping around all the time in and outside the suit.
Kilmer was a big mistake imo, as was everything in Schumacher's Batman movies. Imo Forever isnt much better than B&R
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#95 | ||
Deadpan Snarker
Join Date: Jun 2009
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#96 |
Banned User
Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 2,197
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I like Kilmer way better than Keaton or Clooney. I think he made a better job of the role and he had a better script to work with for Batman's character.
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#97 | |
Deadpan Snarker
Join Date: Jun 2009
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I thought that Michael Keaton was the best Batman of the old franchise. He felt more compelling to me than either Kilmer or Clooney.
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#98 |
The Barber of Seville
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Parts Unknown
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Yeah I have a hard time believing someone that's so kind and sad, with lack of aggression, going out on a nightly basis beating the crap out of criminals. There's not even a small fire inside of Kilmer. It really makes little sense.
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"I'm not in this business to protect the rules, I serve justice" |
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#99 |
Pixelated
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Ohio
Posts: 55,034
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Jim Carrey's Riddler was the saving grace of Batman Forever. B&R has no redeeming quality whatsoever.
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#100 | |
Deadpan Snarker
Join Date: Jun 2009
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My thoughts exactly! To me, he lacks the energy of either Michael Keaton or Christian Bale's performances as Batman. He has neither the ghostly presence of Michael Keaton's Batman nor the animalistic rage of Christian Bale's Batman.
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