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#51 |
Single Mother
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I actually beg to differ with regards to bruce. He makes a decision as the age of 8 to dedicate his life to a cause. A concept of doubt towards committing to that is obviously going to creep in. How many people want to do something at 8 and actually manage it, let alone dedicate their lives to something.
the reason it's a cliche is that it's probably the only thing that could have changed the course of bruce. Like he said, he never counted on being happy, what makes anyone happier than being in a relationship with someone they truly care about. besides having nothing stop potentially stopping him makes him a 2 dimensional character. i don't get what you mean about the defining. the killing aspect wouldn't stop andrea being the phantasm, it didn't stop bruce being batman, it was merely a sympton of being eaten up by the path of vengeance. I would say the batman mask itself is not what scares alfred, it's the eyes (hence why we get a close up of the eyes)m bruce's eyes are what have become scary and not the costume and his eyes are defined by his almaganated loss. he didn't have fear in his eyes before (i am a believer the costume itself is irrelevant and the eyes are the telling part as they are focussed on alot in motp). in fairness his costume is no less intimidating than supermans, or lets say...black canary. i don't see anything wrong with bruce wanting to not be batman, being batman isnt' a great thing as everyone who's ever worked with bruce has encountered. because inhumanity which isn't rationalised in adult hood is just plain lunacy. the only reason bruce becomes strong to the actions of others in dcau is because he was royally burned by andrea back in the day. Even in perchance to dream if he had his perfect life, andrea wouldn't have been part of it, that's how much she burnt him. as females in superhero films go, she's certainly the best love interest to date and is a double beacor warning of what the hero could have had or could have become if he didn't walk that line so finely. andrea beaumont is everything good and everything bad in bruce at the same time.
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#52 | ||||||
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#53 | |
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#54 |
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I think it's one of the very best Batman movies, and one of the best superhero films period. I'd call it on par with Batman Begins as second best behind TDK, which is fitting considering both movies deal heavily with Bruce's early days and the creation of Batman. It is probably the apex of the TAS continuum, and the score by Shirley Walker is in my opinion the best ever written for a bat-flick.
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#55 | ||||||||
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That is PRECISELY why Batman is such a remarkable character. That's why no other orphan in the world makes such a decision. Because no one else can do what he does. If we could find opther people with such a determination, then Batman would be just another guy in a bat suit. Quote:
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That loving a girl is not part of the Batman origin equation. Revenge, justice, hatred, frustration. But not a girl. Quote:
And Batman suit is comparable to Black Canary's or Superman's? I mean, shiny colors vs black, mask vs no mask and a long etc. Now, if you tell me that Bruce didn't have fear in his yees before a girl broke his heart, then why bother in including the Waynes' killing? Let's make this superhero that scares people because he has a broken heart. According to you, a girl walking out of someone is what really gives you what's needed to scare people. Quote:
What's wrong with it? What's wrong is that if anything would stop Bruce of becoming Batman should be more than just a girl. Quote:
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Catwoman is everything good and bad Bruce is as Batman. Last edited by El Payaso; 08-17-2011 at 12:32 PM. |
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#56 |
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I agree with this as BB didn't drive me crazy either. And included a girl into Batman's origin too.
Always heavily based on Elfman's previous work. |
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#57 | |||||||||||
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If we could find opther people with such a determination, then Batman would be just another guy in a bat suit. Quote:
but in the beginning he is just bruce and is not and has had no experience of being batman. and you forget, it's not because of a girl, he specifically states 'he didn't count on being happy'. to be fair, whether it was andrea or heroin, it wouldn't matter as such but the result would remain. but bruce was ultimately saved from himself before he falls too far. Quote:
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watch the dcau episode where the justice league see their future coutnerparts, and batman meets bruce wayne of the future. the old bruce manages without any form of costume to scare the life outta the joker goon, no costume necessary, heck the younger one is quite surprised by the methods. that's all eyes. The suit builds around this but it's eyes first and foremost. put another character in it and it won't have the same affect. and i think you are oversimplyfing andreas role in this film, she's not just a girl, she is the only thing that's ever made him happy since his parents died. she was effectively his crutch out of dispair and when he was just bout to climb out of it, she pushed him right to those depth again, closed the door and threw away the key Quote:
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and you keep saying batman, he's not batman, he's just bruce wayne at this time. nothing can stop batman being batman, bur andrea could stop bruce (actually she had a chance to stop batman as well but in that case they woudl be saving each other). look at the stupid reason batman stopped in the first place, his health collasped and he was forced to use a gun. hardly a reason to let innocent victims be taken down by thugs for the next 20 years. again, somewhat childish. Quote:
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in a sense, the andrea beaumont escapade was bruce's last touch with humanity and the story is how he lost touch with everything Quote:
oh this is just insane. she took a far darker path than bruce did, she did the training, got the phantasm gear and systematically killed everyone involved with her father's murder while abroad for a considerable amount of time. Hers is even worse, bruce's parents were at the wrong place at the wrong time, andrea's dad was assassinated by his old colleagues in cold blood after being on the run. if that doesn't mess someone up, i don't know what would. its alright to not want to like andrea but you can't underplay her role in bruce's story. It's huge. and that's not even considering his actions with her, lead to her sparing terry's father's life and leads to bruce's eventual relationship with his son. So in a sense, bruce did save her in the end since she wasn't willing to see another child go through what he did.
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#58 |
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It's less Elfman-heavy than her work on TAS, which in its early days at least utilized Elfman's main theme quite a bit. Mask of the Phantasm, however, only uses Walker's own themes and material, creating a sound that is reminiscent of the Burton films but still goes beyond it. When I listen to the score, I hear Batman music than transcends specific directors and cinematic takes on the character, and instead hear the Batman of all eras and incarnations.
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#59 |
Harvey Dent
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Why this movie isn't on bluray? Gotham Knight looked amazing but MOTP should look like that too!
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#60 | |
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Agreed. I would love to see a Blu-Ray/DVD with a lot more special features as well. Commentaries, featurettes, et cetera.
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#61 | ||
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Thanks I needed a good laugh. She's the best Batman love interest ever who's only been introduced in a 1hr 17 minute film. Then never ever used again. While Catwoman has been in 70 years of comics, as well as tv shows, animated series and three live action movies (including TDKR, excluding Catwoman (2004) aka CINO). Whose relationship with Batman has developed and matured for years. Including their alter egos. Don't get me wrong I think Andrea served her purpose in MOTP. And she's an interesting character. But her relationship with Batman or Bruce wasn't meant to be. She isn't even close to the best love interest. Not by a long shot, imo.
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#62 | ||
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#63 |
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So do you think the same about Rachel Dawes in the Nolan films? I highly doubt we'll see those in any other movies or books.
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#64 | |
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I don't think she's the best love interest for Batman, but I highly doubt that there won't be a mention of her in The Dark Knight Rises. I don't mind that both Andrea Beaumont and Rachel Dawes only exist in a single continuity. My problem is that Andrea is never mentioned again in the DCAU, the continuity she is supposed to crucial to.
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#65 | |
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Her role (even though nonspeaking,) was still important. |
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#66 | |
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True. Still, she never came up when Batman's past was brought up.
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#67 | |||||||||||||||||
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Then I agreed with you that few people can decide something at 8 and keep it without doubting about it. Now you disagree with me. Vicariously you’re disagreeing with yourself. So, what is it? Regular people doubt or not about decision made at 8. Quote:
According to you. Quote:
Regular guys would forget everything because of a hot girl before starting. Bruce wouldn’t. AFTER he is Batman and he thinks there’s no point in keep being it, that’s a different song. Quote:
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Now what makes him doubt before becoming Batman is what matters here. And a girl sounds cliched (‘love can change people’) and insufficient (just a girl? Really. That close he was of not becoming Batman because of a girl?). No. Determination is never on its own. Nothing ever is. Everything is within a context, linked to a number of other factors. Only treatments are 2 dimensional. Quote:
As I said, if your idea of Batman is a billionaire without a bat-suit, knock yourself out. Some of us think a Batman story must include Batman. There is a bat before the man. And for a good reason. Quote:
Options are many. But that’s not a part of what Batman origin story is. And a girl in not either. Quote:
You say Batman’s suit is irrelevant. Bruce just need some angry eyes and that’s it. Which is why I’m critizising such story. Remember? Quote:
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But to doubt of what you’ve been sure of because of a girl is, again, quite cliched. Andrea was just placed there in an attempt to re-tell Batman’s origin. But she was not needed. Batman doesn’t start because Bruce couldn’t get married. His anger doesn’t come from a failed romance. Quote:
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A good love interest is not the one that goes somewhere necessarily. Best love interests, from Romeo and Juliet, and this improvised Andrea Beaumont thing, don’t go anywhere. Quote:
But naturally she IS part of Batman history and nobody thought of having her as some reason for Bruce NOT wanting to become Batman in the first place. Quote:
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#68 |
Everything Under the Sun
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Bumpin' my own thread because 20 years later and this film still rocks.
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#69 | |
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![]() I would love to see Andrea Beaumont in a live-action Bat film but that's unlikely to happen. ![]() Last edited by Two-Face; 05-31-2013 at 09:13 AM. |
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#70 |
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I love it, despite its few very annoying animation/audio imperfections..
lots of great scenes. |
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#71 |
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I think this is the one Bat-story where I don't mind Joker hijacking himself into the main plot.
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#72 |
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Begins and Phantasm are my favorite Batman movies ever made.
Despite this film being half the length (somes less than half) of all the other Bat films, it manages to tell a tighter, more character focused story than all of them (Begins being tied with it imo). It manages to cram a lot of information and revelations into a small runtime and it all works outs flawlessly. The only real complaints I have are merely superficial and easily forgotten. I prefer it over TDK, Rises, Batman 89, Returns and honestly it's not below Begins either, merely right up along side it. |
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#73 |
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I just re-watched Batman: Mask of the Phantasm today and wow does it hold up! While I prefer The Dark Knight Trilogy, it is without a doubt better than the rest of Batman movies.
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#74 |
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#75 |
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