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Old 08-14-2011, 05:37 PM   #26
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Default Re: Batman-"the most realistic" superhero?

I don't see how that makes the character any less realistic, especially with the suspension of belief we all have to accept with this topic.

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Old 08-14-2011, 06:19 PM   #27
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Default Re: Batman-"the most realistic" superhero?

BATMAN: A human vigilante with gadgets and a lot of money

SUPERMAN: An alien who looks exactly like a human in every way, who travelled in a spaceship capable of reaching earth from Krypton without him ageing at all, and can defy gravity, shoot laser beams out of his eyes, see through things, blow fires out with one breath, pick up an entire house, catch a bullet, all because his planet had a different sun...

If it is not obvious to you which one is the more realistic, then you've lost me completely...

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Old 08-14-2011, 06:26 PM   #28
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Default Re: Batman-"the most realistic" superhero?

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Originally Posted by hopefulsuicide View Post
BATMAN: A human vigilante with gadgets and a lot of money

SUPERMAN: An alien who looks exactly like a human in every way, who travelled in a spaceship capable of reaching earth from Krypton without him ageing at all, and can defy gravity, shoot laser beams out of his eyes, see through things, blow fires out with one breath, pick up an entire house, catch a bullet, all because his planet had a different sun...

If it is not obvious to you which one is the more realistic, then you've lost me completely...
Agreed. Batman is the more realistic of the two by far.

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Old 08-14-2011, 06:30 PM   #29
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Default Re: Batman-"the most realistic" superhero?

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id say captain america is just as realistic as batman in a way. man made strong by super steroids. Uses a bulletproof shield. sounds better than training to peak physical prowess in less than 20 years and dressing as a bat
Disagree. Batman doesn't use armor made of fictional alloys, nor does his strength come from a Super Soldier Serum. He had to work hard for his strength, unlike Captain America. Plus, Batman's costume is far more realistic for a crimefighter than Captain America's outfit is. If Captain America tried to fight crime or fight a war in the real world, he would die very quickly.

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Old 08-14-2011, 06:44 PM   #30
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Default Re: Batman-"the most realistic" superhero?

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Originally Posted by hopefulsuicide View Post
BATMAN: A human vigilante with gadgets and a lot of money

SUPERMAN: An alien who looks exactly like a human in every way, who travelled in a spaceship capable of reaching earth from Krypton without him ageing at all, and can defy gravity, shoot laser beams out of his eyes, see through things, blow fires out with one breath, pick up an entire house, catch a bullet, all because his planet had a different sun...

If it is not obvious to you which one is the more realistic, then you've lost me completely...
But a man who somehow got the abilities of Superman could do these things.

Batman couldn't swing over rooftops, he couldn't escape a machine gun, he would just die pretty early.

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Old 08-14-2011, 06:53 PM   #31
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Default Re: Batman-"the most realistic" superhero?

But someone COULDN'T get the abilities of Superman!

It's completely impossible. His powers break the laws of physics.

And for me it's as simple as this:

BATMAN - Human, SUPERMAN - Alien... therefore Batman more realistic, because a human being is simply a more realistic character than an alien!

Whether or not it is believable that a human could be capable of some of the feats Batman has done, is irrelevant. Like I said, he's not realistic. Just MORE realistic.

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"The problem," Pa used to say, "is people. As far back as we go, we've always had problems with sharing. Seems everyone's too busy holding on to what they've got to care how their neighbors are doing."


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Old 08-14-2011, 07:26 PM   #32
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Default Re: Batman-"the most realistic" superhero?

Edit. Nevermind


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Old 08-15-2011, 03:57 AM   #33
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Default Re: Batman-"the most realistic" superhero?

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Originally Posted by hopefulsuicide View Post
BATMAN: A human vigilante with gadgets and a lot of money

SUPERMAN: An alien who looks exactly like a human in every way, who travelled in a spaceship capable of reaching earth from Krypton without him ageing at all, and can defy gravity, shoot laser beams out of his eyes, see through things, blow fires out with one breath, pick up an entire house, catch a bullet, all because his planet had a different sun...

If it is not obvious to you which one is the more realistic, then you've lost me completely...
this conversation isn't about powers which i brought up in my initial posts. It's about character concept.

to which i say superman's character origins are far more realistic.

how many billion people have lived so far, lived with substantial amounts of wonga who have had tragic upbringings that have committed themselves to a vigilante lifestlye?

zippo.

yet we have stories of outsiders entering basic communities, integrating and ultimately making them better while upholding their beliefs. i.e. hercules, tarzan, dragonball, new adventures of he-man, farscape, buck rogers. it even has its own trope have a look, heck superman even has his own section in it

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Originally Posted by mighty whitey trope
Oddly enough, Superman may be the earliest example of a superhero playing to a variation of this trope, except that the "mighty whitey" is actually an alien, and the entire human race are the natives who he joins (in contrast to the more common Sci-fi variant of the trope where the opposite would be the case). Kal-el learns the ways of the primitive Earth folk and ultimately becomes their greatest champion while inspiring them to bring out the best in their culture, and even turns against the race he was born to when they try to molest his new home with their advanced strength and weapons.
i mean crumbs, the moses story in the bible is pretty much superman's. I'm not going to get into whether the bible is real or not but there are more examples of this in 'historical' literature than batman's.

this is my point. I don't know why you are glossing over it and concentrating on aspects of the characters which are irrelevant to them. If clark's kryptonian nature gave him no powers what so ever, he'd still be more realistic.

the only issue per say is whether or not his intergration into the human race as a child would make him more/less dedicated to the cause or not (i mean if he had come later on, it may have made a difference on his outlook).

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Old 08-17-2011, 04:12 AM   #34
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Default Re: Batman-"the most realistic" superhero?

Batman is a very operatic figure, but not realistic. The mere fact that hes human does not determine whether his realistic or not. Its a guy who experienced a psychological trauma and dresses for a bat jumping on the roofs fighting crime at night. A guy in a bat suit working with police. Cmon. Then theres the "no-kill" rule of just about every superhero from Superman to SpiderMan to whatever you can think of. Its absolutely unrealistic. Cops and soldiers who fight crime and terror have no such rule because its just impossible. Its like going to Iraq thinking not one taliban will be killed. Plus the guy is set on revenge and built on personal pain and hate for criminals.

The most realistic is by far Punisher. The guy uses guns and bulletproof vest. and hates criminals so he kills them mercilessly having the death of his family in his mind. No one would spare murderers knowing one of them murdered their entire family. Its like Gibson's Road Warrior

But anyway, there are some points I want to address


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First off, let's look at the fact that he's a multi-billionaire. I know that such people exist, but I am not one of them nor is anyone with whom I'm personally acquainted. I doubt many comic fans can say otherwise.
Theres more billionaires and multimillionaires than you think. I actually know someone who's worth nearly a billion dollar and lives in Malibu. I used to work with certain celebrities years ago. But Wayne isnt just one of the billionaire's , hes pretty much equivalent to Trump's son, someone whos super ich yet known by people and sometimes looked at by media. So nothing unrealistic here for me

Quote:
Then you look at his history: Parents are gunned down in an alley by a desperate mugger, who in turn leaves a living witness? Pretty unlikely.
Youre forgetting a very important fact that fans seem to ( some intentionally) forget about, which is that it was actually a mob hit in disguise, thats why Bruce was spared to testify it was an attempted robbery.

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Then he's raised by Alfred. How the hell does the custody of the sole heir to a massive empire fall into the hands of the help?
Its not ANY help tho. Alfred was a special person for Waynes and had a very special relationship with the family.

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And how do you parent your boss? "You're grounded!" "You're fired!"
I thought he had a right balance. He was help, but at the same time he was a friend with an advice and a helpful grandfather figure with strong moral values

Im not mentioning villains cause by design they were always suppose to be like the Dick Tracy villains. The original premise of Batman mythos was to have very out of this world villains

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Old 08-17-2011, 05:11 AM   #35
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Default Re: Batman-"the most realistic" superhero?

You do raise a number of valid points, but I'm afraid you're missing the biggest one of all.

Batman is "the most realistic" because from the characters conception, an effort has been made to present him as what no other top tier superhero across any of the various comic book companies are: a human being of flesh and bone without the aid of anything other-worldly.

Superman is an alien come to Earth where he becomes a pseudo-god.
Spider-man is bitten by a radioactive/genetically engineered spider and gains mutant powers.
Wonder Woman is an amazon warrior princess, descended from myth.
The Fantastic Four are mutants. The X-Men are mutants.
Green Lantern gets his abilities from an alien race/source.
Martian Manhunter is a Martian.

You get the gist, right?

Something else makes all of these individuals special.

Batman, meanwhile, makes himself something special.

He isn't an alien, or a mutant, or anything else. While he may not be the only hero without powers he is the first and the greatest of them all.

Through discipline, training, determination, genius, whatever else... he becomes something more than he should reasonably be able to. He adds to that with his financial resources, true. Yet somehow I imagine he'd be doing what he does if he had to ride a beat-up bicycle and work out of a garage. LOL.

If you look at the Batman universe in a 100% literal context? Of course you'll disagree with Batman being 'real' -- but if you stop and realize, Batman doesn't rely on the "chemicals/radiation/genetics mutated me" or "aliens involved" to make him something beyond a man, but instead tries to show how an individual could likely do much of what is shown from him, then you realize... it's right on.

Batman is the most realistic. That doesn't mean he's got to be 100% reality. It just means, when held up against the world of superheroes, he's the closest thing to realism, even with things like batarangs and billion-dollar lives.


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Old 08-17-2011, 05:55 AM   #36
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Default Re: Batman-"the most realistic" superhero?

all of what you said make him completely unrealistic

infact the 'no-super power' superpower is the most unrealistic superpower of them all.

otherwise, everyone would be a superhero

so why don't they exist?

at least the boundary of powers as a concept as to why we don't see them in everyday life is a more 'realistic concept' (even though the real reality would be they would probably be some lab rat somewhere or working with the government).

HOWEVER if you are talking about realism within the context of a fictional universe

then....surely someone like the question is a far more realistic character than bats.

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Old 08-17-2011, 07:00 AM   #37
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Default Re: Batman-"the most realistic" superhero?

^^ The reason Batman can do what he does sans any superpower, while so few others are also capable of such, is as simple as looking out at the world.

We have people in this world who are unique; who are capable of things next to no one else is. Stan Lee's show on the History channel is all about such.

In the comics, it seems a vast fortune combined with tragedy are required. Oliver Queen, Bruce Wayne, Tony Stark.

And in total 100% truth, the modern Iron Man movies would likely be the most realistic superhero films.

But Batman is the 2nd most well known comic book character. He's right up next to Superman. And he's up there, above all of Marvel and the rest of DC and so on, in part because of his realistic-ness.

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Old 08-17-2011, 07:18 AM   #38
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Default Re: Batman-"the most realistic" superhero?

I think there has to be a distinguishing between lack of powers, relatability and realness because i think we are getting jumbled on the semantics of things.

we'll probably end up discussing totally different points using words we think have a uniform meaning while we both see alternate meanings for the phrase.

if that's the case, these types of discussions are bound to not lead anywhere productive

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Old 08-22-2011, 01:36 PM   #39
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Default Re: Batman-"the most realistic" superhero?

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all of what you said make him completely unrealistic

infact the 'no-super power' superpower is the most unrealistic superpower of them all.

otherwise, everyone would be a superhero

so why don't they exist?

at least the boundary of powers as a concept as to why we don't see them in everyday life is a more 'realistic concept' (even though the real reality would be they would probably be some lab rat somewhere or working with the government).

HOWEVER if you are talking about realism within the context of a fictional universe

then....surely someone like the question is a far more realistic character than bats.
Interesting argument.

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Old 08-22-2011, 03:46 PM   #40
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Default Re: Batman-"the most realistic" superhero?

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I don't think he is realistic in every way.

But he is the MOST realistic. I mean, name a superhero who is more realistic!

I'd say the thread title is a bit off.
Green Arrow.

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Old 08-22-2011, 04:00 PM   #41
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Default Re: Batman-"the most realistic" superhero?

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Green Arrow.
Not really. Green Arrow is cool, but he's not as realistic as Batman.

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Old 08-22-2011, 04:50 PM   #42
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Interesting argument.
well alot of people have the will to want to make the world a better place but alot of people lack the opportunity.

batman's real superpower is infact a bottomless pit of money, no family responsibilities and no need to do a 9 to five.

but billionnaires like this already exist with less be honest, far more tragic upbringings than bats.

the batman concept is one that could not be formed in our world. It's far more simplistic than someone who wam gets powers and is already well on their way to actually be able to make a difference.

I'm not sure alot of people on these sites actually look at the superhero idealogy in its true fundamental role in a real world society in the correct light.

sure a human vigilante is more technically feasible but it's far from evolving in the way it does.

in our world powers would make superheroes, albeit if you had powers, the media are more than likely to cast you in a ying-yang role of superhero-manace-supervillain in a sinusoidal fashion depending on their needs and way you deal with issues.

the only difference between a superhero and a supervillain is who's writing the story. One could potentially depict doom as the saviour of the earth who would eventually bring that order and propserity it needs while the heroes deny him that opportunity.

nothign in our world is black and white.

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Old 08-22-2011, 07:50 PM   #43
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Default Re: Batman-"the most realistic" superhero?

How are people even saying Superman?... it's obviously Batman.

He has no powers. As I've said, somebody could be a vigilante like Batman if they had almost limitless supplies of money, and had trained to the peak of human condition.

Now, how would someone become Superman?

Realistically, I'd have to say Batman.

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Old 08-22-2011, 07:54 PM   #44
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Default Re: Batman-"the most realistic" superhero?

Batman has the fighting skill of Chuck Norris, the business acumen of Warren Buffet, the deductive reasoning of Sherlock Holmes, and the intellect of Stephen Hawking.


How is that "realistic"?



The Punisher is the most realistic vigilante.



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Old 08-22-2011, 08:17 PM   #45
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Default Re: Batman-"the most realistic" superhero?

It's impossible to be clever and a good fighter?

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Old 08-23-2011, 04:19 AM   #46
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How are people even saying Superman?... it's obviously Batman.

He has no powers. As I've said, somebody could be a vigilante like Batman if they had almost limitless supplies of money, and had trained to the peak of human condition.

Now, how would someone become Superman?

Realistically, I'd have to say Batman.
Becoming superman is easy.

you take someone from a more advanced culture and plop them in the middle of a more basic one, get them to integrate with the natives and allow him to become their greatest champion and either spiritual or military leader.

that is all what superman is.


no matter how much money or time an individual has on their side, it would be impossible for a single vigilante to be able to strike fear into their own entire city sized crime establishment and also be publically revered by its law institution.

again historically, the set up for batman is as long the history of civilization. So why don't we have one, or have ever had one?

it's far far FAR more realistic to have a beacon of hope symbol for the mass good people than to have a symbol of fear beacon for criminals, especially if they are willing to cross lines you (as the vigilante) are not.

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Old 08-23-2011, 04:24 AM   #47
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Default Re: Batman-"the most realistic" superhero?

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Batman has the fighting skill of Chuck Norris, the business acumen of Warren Buffet, the deductive reasoning of Sherlock Holmes, and the intellect of Stephen Hawking.


How is that "realistic"?



The Punisher is the most realistic vigilante.


to be fair, i'm of the belief that no single vigilante would be successful for too long.

I would imagine them setting up some sort of underground vigilante cell with approximately 50-250 dormant cells who could be activated at any time. In a sense any powerless vigilante scheme would have to be run like a bizzarro terrorist group.

a batman figure COULD be the head of this organization but his role would very much be centric to the batcave as the eyes and ears of the entire thing. I imagine it being like batman beyond with 50 odd terrys

but as you up the numbers, you up the costs and lower the chances of anonymity.

the real problem in batman comics (and in most comics) is you have very limited exposure to how the media and the everyday public view them, it's incredibly simplistic and all you have to do is pick up a newspaper to see our world just doesn't operate like that.

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Old 08-23-2011, 04:52 AM   #48
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Becoming superman is easy.

you take someone from a more advanced culture and plop them in the middle of a more basic one, get them to integrate with the natives and allow him to become their greatest champion and either spiritual or military leader.

that is all what superman is.


no matter how much money or time an individual has on their side, it would be impossible for a single vigilante to be able to strike fear into their own entire city sized crime establishment and also be publically revered by its law institution.

again historically, the set up for batman is as long the history of civilization. So why don't we have one, or have ever had one?

it's far far FAR more realistic to have a beacon of hope symbol for the mass good people than to have a symbol of fear beacon for criminals, especially if they are willing to cross lines you (as the vigilante) are not.
What do you mean by advanced culture though?

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Old 08-23-2011, 05:12 AM   #49
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Default Re: Batman-"the most realistic" superhero?

well simply from a originally more civilized 'apparently' to a less civilized. or a more technological or wealthy community to a less technological or wealthy community.

or simply from an oppressive nation to an oppressed on

did you catch my trope on it in the link I put up in reply #33. It explains it well there in the link

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Old 08-23-2011, 05:41 AM   #50
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Default Re: Batman-"the most realistic" superhero?

Punisher is the most realistic superhero.

It would be rather easy for an ex-special ops dude with guns to start a covert mission of killing criminals. Depending on how smart he was his killing spree could last anything from a couple of days to a few months.

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