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Old 10-24-2011, 07:45 AM   #76
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Default Re: Anne Hathaway as Selina Kyle/Catwoman XVII

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...Are we still discussing the sex scene between Batman and Catwoman in Catwoman? o.o
Unfortunately people just can't let it go.

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Yeah, I'm all about subtext. I'm pretty sure I could watch two hours of monkeys mating if it had a mass of subtext underneath it all. :o
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Old 10-24-2011, 08:18 AM   #77
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Default Re: Anne Hathaway as Selina Kyle/Catwoman XVII

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Unfortunately people just can't let it go.
I mean I know that people discuss things at length on here...but I swear, this has been going on for like, a month now.

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Old 10-24-2011, 08:43 AM   #78
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Default Re: Anne Hathaway as Selina Kyle/Catwoman XVII

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I mean I know that people discuss things at length on here...but I swear, this has been going on for like, a month now.
I wish they'd take it to the Batworld. This is about Catwoman in TDKR.

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Yeah, I'm all about subtext. I'm pretty sure I could watch two hours of monkeys mating if it had a mass of subtext underneath it all. :o
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Old 10-24-2011, 08:55 AM   #79
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Default Re: Anne Hathaway as Selina Kyle/Catwoman XVII

Indeed.

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Old 10-24-2011, 10:07 AM   #80
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Default Re: Anne Hathaway as Selina Kyle/Catwoman XVII

There are just too many good points in that debate to follow up on and quote. But I'll try to be concise.

KRIM, I have to honestly disagree with some of your points, while I have to side with a few others. The thing about Batman is that he has indeed been portrayed as someone who is wiling to repress his own needs for the sake of the mission. He is, among other things, an almost pure pragmatist in the classical sense. Or at least, that's the way it has been portrayed since the Bob Kane days. Catwoman's character is always there to chip away at that extreme. It isn't about dismissing Batman's natural urges, it's about Bruce continuing to dismiss those urges on his own, it's a part of his characterisation. I agree though, that his greater abstinence is, and will probably continue to be, a lasting and healthy romantic relationship. Catwoman seems to walk on both ends of that relationship, I suppose that's why they're non-relationship in itself has created a history between the two. Again, it is regarding the depiction of sex in the mainstream comics that has made so many people upset. Not the sex itself. And I agree, this is an old debate. Let's leave it at that. (and by the way - the link on your signature will give me nightmares for the rest of the week. Brilliant stuff there )

Phantasm - I agree with your sentiments as well. It's terrible writing, but let's bear with it for the time being and ignore it. DC doesn't know what to do with their characters, but that doesn't mean we should have to digest whatever they publish.

Boom - bingo. On all counts.

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(pt 1; pt 2; pt 3; pt 4; pt 5; pt 6; pt 7)


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Old 10-24-2011, 10:09 AM   #81
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Default Re: Anne Hathaway as Selina Kyle/Catwoman XVII

Oh one last point about the sex stuff (and this is relevant). Have you guys seen Love and Other Drugs? It's a cheesy rom-com with Anne (a lot of Anne). But one that works because at least once, however rare it is, we see a relationship in a rom-com that isn't afraid to show the sexual dimension of it. It may seem exploitative as well, but at it's heart it's a more believable rom-com movie because the characters' sex life is explored properly.

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(pt 1; pt 2; pt 3; pt 4; pt 5; pt 6; pt 7)


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Old 10-24-2011, 10:55 AM   #82
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Default Re: Anne Hathaway as Selina Kyle/Catwoman XVII

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KRIM, I have to honestly disagree with some of your points, while I have to side with a few others. The thing about Batman is that he has indeed been portrayed as someone who is wiling to repress his own needs for the sake of the mission. He is, among other things, an almost pure pragmatist in the classical sense. Or at least, that's the way it has been portrayed since the Bob Kane days. Catwoman's character is always there to chip away at that extreme. It isn't about dismissing Batman's natural urges, it's about Bruce continuing to dismiss those urges on his own, it's a part of his characterisation.
All true, however even back in the early days of Bob Kane/Bill Finger, Bruce never failed to have a woman on the side. In 'Shadow of the Monk' he was juggling both Batman and an engagement to Julie Madison. When that ended, he moved onto other girls such as Vicki and Silver. So history hasn't shown a truly isolated Bruce Wayne. It's obvious his heart is penetrable, but it's keeping that relationship that's proven to be the obstacle.

As you say, the enticement to live a life with Selina makes their dynamic so interesting. But I'd go beyond that and say the desire to simply live and be happy, are the ultimate forbidden fruits. If Bruce were a pure pragmatist, there is no drama when he is faced with the decision to go after it. He would have already made up his mind and rejected it completely. But if there's a small part of him that thrives for it, then you create that cognitive dissonance which raises the emotional stakes.

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Old 10-24-2011, 11:05 AM   #83
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Default Re: Anne Hathaway as Selina Kyle/Catwoman XVII

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The sex scene was bad because it was pornographic. Catwoman doesn't even know his real name, which isn't the smartest move either. The writer made a strong, beautiful female character into a desperate slave to her own lust. Which was somehow triggered by her apartment being blown apart.

pornographic? lmao i'm sorry i must have missed the panel where we see both bruce and selina's genitalia. this is softcore porn at best and even then it's pretty tame i doubt anyone could get off to those panels.

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Having Catwoman claw the eye out of a criminal, for a friend, doesn't compare .
of course it does.It was a very graphic and extremely intense scene yet no one has a problem with it because by societies standards violence is ok but sex is a sensitive issue.


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Yes. Because nothing turns a girl on more than having her apartment blown up.
from this line alone i doubt you even read the issue. your probably like the countless haters who just read the sex scene at the comic shop. selina didn't sleep with batman simply because she was turned on. she slept with him because she wanted comfort sex. you may have never experienced that but sex can be used as a form of comfort after going through a stressful situation. does that demean catwoman? i don't think so. However even if it didn't it really doesn't matter. CATWOMAN IS NOT A ROLE MODEL. she never was and never will be. shes allowed to make mistakes or do "wrong" things.

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Old 10-24-2011, 11:48 AM   #84
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Default Re: Anne Hathaway as Selina Kyle/Catwoman XVII

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All true, however even back in the early days of Bob Kane/Bill Finger, Bruce never failed to have a woman on the side. In 'Shadow of the Monk' he was juggling both Batman and an engagement to Julie Madison. When that ended, he moved onto other girls such as Vicki and Silver. So history hasn't shown a truly isolated Bruce Wayne. It's obvious his heart is penetrable, but it's keeping that relationship that's proven to be the obstacle.

As you say, the enticement to live a life with Selina makes their dynamic so interesting. But I'd go beyond that and say the desire to simply live and be happy, are the ultimate forbidden fruits. If Bruce were a pure pragmatist, there is no drama when he is faced with the decision to go after it. He would have already made up his mind and rejected it completely. But if there's a small part of him that thrives for it, then you create that cognitive dissonance which raises the emotional stakes.
Wonderfully said. Even in the old stories though, Bruce was always talking the superhero rhetoric about not letting those women become a part of his life. He isolates himself. He is a pragmatist because he manages to refrain from that, manages to curb his emotions for the utilitarian cause. It isn't easy, and in the best stories we get a sense of how hard the sacrifice was for him. We have, however, yet to see this in the romantic life of Nolan's Batman/Wayne. Rachel Dawse was always someone he ached for. One is lead to believe, at the end of TDK, whether Batman's lack of a romantic life in the more well-known stories are because of the things that happened with Rachel. The suggestion was there.

Julie Madison, of course, and then there was Linda Page. You know it's interesting but I remember a dialogue between society-boy Bruce and recently-turned-worker-girl Linda, and in it she tells Bruce how he needs to work for the betterment of society, like she has. Bruce acts aloof, and brushes it off. But Linda maintains that he is inherently a good person, but never acts on it. The whole thing reads like that scene where Bruce and Rachel meet in Batman Begins upon his return, and I wouldn't be surprised if the filmmakers had some kind of inspiration from it.

We usually credit Tim Burton as the more 'Golden Age' centric director of the Bat-films, but some of those original characterisations and motifs are still present in all incarnations of the character. At least they manage to seep through. It will be interesting to see how Batman's love-life is portrayed this time.

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THE JUSTICE BULLETIN published some of my thematic analysis on the symbolism in Nolan's superhero saga.
I call it Heroic Archetypes. You can read the parts on Batman Begins in the following links:
(pt 1; pt 2; pt 3; pt 4; pt 5; pt 6; pt 7)


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Old 10-24-2011, 12:16 PM   #85
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Default Re: Catwoman/Batman sex in the comics

This debate is just another example of why Batman is such a fascinating character.

KRIM, I guess it's just different strokes. I can't really disprove anything you've been saying, so it's all perfectly valid. I just plain old disagree.

Playboy Bruce having sex with celebrities is one thing. Hell, perhaps I'd even be able to stomach Bruce Wayne and Selina Kyle having sex. But Batman and Catwoman? It just goes against how I've always viewed the character - or at least my particular preference for the character.

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Old 10-24-2011, 12:19 PM   #86
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Default Re: Catwoman/Batman sex in the comics

I honestly dont see the big deal with this. And I dont think it should happen ''behind the scenes.'' Nothing wrong with sex.

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Old 10-24-2011, 03:11 PM   #87
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Default Re: Catwoman/Batman sex in the comics

Before anyone pulls out the "there's nothing wrong with sex" card for the millionth time, that's not my issue. It wouldn't bother me if Bruce Wayne and Selina Kyle got it on at Wayne Manor.

But come on.... Batman, the hero of Gotham, getting it on with a cat burglar while on the job? I really could care less how it compares with other relationships or characters from different stories or films. It's just not the way I view Batman. I always imagined Batman was strong enough to not allow himself to cross a certain line.

But the thing that bothers me the most is how corny they made it look. I mean come on, they're doing it with their suits on. It kind of reminds me of the silly Batman Porn Parody where everyone was getting it on while in costume.

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Old 10-24-2011, 06:12 PM   #88
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Default Re: Catwoman/Batman sex in the comics

Exactly. I think it would've been welcome with open arms, even from those with an issue of seeing Batman and Catwoman with their kink on, had it been written more tastefully.

The world, especially with the advent of the little thing called the internet, has become aware of pornographic sex, we've all become learned critics of the genre This, according to the wealth of knowledge, was poor porn as well.

But again... back to topic. Anne Hatha....whoa wait a minute. What happened to the thread?! We were going back to a more civil discussion here! WTF!

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THE JUSTICE BULLETIN published some of my thematic analysis on the symbolism in Nolan's superhero saga.
I call it Heroic Archetypes. You can read the parts on Batman Begins in the following links:
(pt 1; pt 2; pt 3; pt 4; pt 5; pt 6; pt 7)


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Old 10-24-2011, 06:32 PM   #89
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Default Re: Catwoman/Batman sex in the comics

B-P-P was fun though.

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THE JUSTICE BULLETIN published some of my thematic analysis on the symbolism in Nolan's superhero saga.
I call it Heroic Archetypes. You can read the parts on Batman Begins in the following links:
(pt 1; pt 2; pt 3; pt 4; pt 5; pt 6; pt 7)


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Old 10-24-2011, 06:55 PM   #90
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Default Re: Catwoman/Batman sex in the comics

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Before anyone pulls out the "there's nothing wrong with sex" card for the millionth time, that's not my issue. It wouldn't bother me if Bruce Wayne and Selina Kyle got it on at Wayne Manor.

But come on.... Batman, the hero of Gotham, getting it on with a cat burglar while on the job? I really could care less how it compares with other relationships or characters from different stories or films. It's just not the way I view Batman. I always imagined Batman was strong enough to not allow himself to cross a certain line.

But the thing that bothers me the most is how corny they made it look. I mean come on, they're doing it with their suits on. It kind of reminds me of the silly Batman Porn Parody where everyone was getting it on while in costume.
They still gotta leave some level of mystery It was hot with the masks on

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Old 10-24-2011, 10:53 PM   #91
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Default Re: Anne Hathaway as Selina Kyle/Catwoman XVII

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Nothing wrong with them having sex in the comics. Get over it.
Yep.

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Old 10-24-2011, 11:35 PM   #92
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Default Re: Catwoman/Batman sex in the comics

I don't mind them having sex. I just don't like them having sex in their costumes. It looks like these erotic fan art pieces that you sometimes find on the net where characters are drawn with pieces of their costumes still on. These just look like giant arrows or signs as if to say "look, it is still them, and here's parts of their costume to prove it", otherwise we'd have no way of knowing with drawn art that they are these characters (unlike say, in real life where people's faces are more distinguishable).

I'd be perfectly fine with it if they showed Bruce Wayne in bed with Selina Kyle.

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Old 10-25-2011, 08:00 AM   #93
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Default Re: Catwoman/Batman sex in the comics

It falls under the same category as that Edge/Lita sex scene on WWE Raw. Yes. I went there.

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I call it Heroic Archetypes. You can read the parts on Batman Begins in the following links:
(pt 1; pt 2; pt 3; pt 4; pt 5; pt 6; pt 7)


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Old 10-25-2011, 08:07 AM   #94
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Default Re: Anne Hathaway as Selina Kyle/Catwoman XVII

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pornographic? lmao i'm sorry i must have missed the panel where we see both bruce and selina's genitalia. this is softcore porn at best and even then it's pretty tame i doubt anyone could get off to those panels.



of course it does.It was a very graphic and extremely intense scene yet no one has a problem with it because by societies standards violence is ok but sex is a sensitive issue.




from this line alone i doubt you even read the issue. your probably like the countless haters who just read the sex scene at the comic shop. selina didn't sleep with batman simply because she was turned on. she slept with him because she wanted comfort sex. you may have never experienced that but sex can be used as a form of comfort after going through a stressful situation. does that demean catwoman? i don't think so. However even if it didn't it really doesn't matter. CATWOMAN IS NOT A ROLE MODEL. she never was and never will be. shes allowed to make mistakes or do "wrong" things.
Well said. Especially the bolded.

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Old 10-25-2011, 12:37 PM   #95
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Default Re: Catwoman/Batman sex in the comics

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It falls under the same category as that Edge/Lita sex scene on WWE Raw. Yes. I went there.
I also thought of this but I didn't think there were any wrestling fans in here. They received pretty harsh reviews for that. The only good thing about it was Lita's nipple slip (if you caught it) and Ric Flair walking in on them having sex, doing his crazy promo.

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Old 10-25-2011, 03:29 PM   #96
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Default Re: Catwoman/Batman sex in the comics

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I honestly dont see the big deal with this. And I dont think it should happen ''behind the scenes.'' Nothing wrong with sex.
I agree; it's not horrible at all. You guys didn't flip out when Talia and Batman did it in Son of the Demon.


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Old 10-25-2011, 03:43 PM   #97
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Default Re: Catwoman/Batman sex in the comics

Just wait for the fight between Selina and Talia, to prove who is the better mother...

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Old 10-25-2011, 05:40 PM   #98
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Default Re: Catwoman/Batman sex in the comics

im probably the biggest advocate of sexual expression, but i also recognize it has its place. and im cool with sex in comics, as well as its depicted tastefully. this here looks horribly out of place and done with little taste.

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Old 10-25-2011, 06:18 PM   #99
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Default Re: Catwoman/Batman sex in the comics

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I agree; it's not horrible at all. You guys didn't flip out when Talia and Batman did it in Son of the Demon.


But you see, that picture above looks a lot classier than the Batman/ Catwoman sex scene in their costumes. Here they just look normal and natural like two people in bed. It doesn't look like erotic fan art where they have to say "hey look, it IS actually them - you can see their costumes". I have no problem with sex scenes like the above.

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Old 10-25-2011, 07:04 PM   #100
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But you see, that picture above looks a lot classier than the Batman/ Catwoman sex scene in their costumes. Here they just look normal and natural like two people in bed. It doesn't look like erotic fan art where they have to say "hey look, it IS actually them - you can see their costumes". I have no problem with sex scenes like the above.
Agreed. The Catwoman/Batman picture looks like something you'd find on Deviantart by a fan.

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