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Old 11-14-2011, 11:03 AM   #101
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Default Re: The Joker sized elephant in the room

I'm thinking we will hear something, but it will be more along the lines of a press conference/news report where Gordon (or a newscaster) mentions that the streets are safe, Joker has been locked away in Arkham, & the police are on the trail of Batman. The false sense of security leads to Bane tearing the city apart.

Personally, I'd prefer it if we got more than just that, but with Heath passing I think they'll just skirt it. While, having Joker escape at the end might seem trite or corny, the idea that the quest will always continue should be there in some way. I do not see WB allowing Nolan to close up shop. No dead Batman, no retired Batman, nothing like that. The Dark Knight Rises,I take that as meaning he will be in full force at the end.

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Old 11-14-2011, 11:07 AM   #102
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Default Re: The Joker sized elephant in the room

I think people are forgetting how far CGI has gotten over the years. Would it be that difficult to recreate Heath's Joker for at least one scene?

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Old 11-14-2011, 11:23 AM   #103
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Default Re: The Joker sized elephant in the room

No, it wouldn't. But I don't think Nolan would do that. Out of respect for Heath and cuz CGI is not really his m.o. I could see a cell with a name on it or something like that. But I'm with the crowd that think Mister J will be mentioned in passing to tie in with Dent and the events of TDK. But having a scene at the end on a rooftop where Gordon tells Bats that the Joker is loose again would rock.

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Old 11-14-2011, 11:24 AM   #104
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Default Re: The Joker sized elephant in the room

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Originally Posted by boocherhix View Post
No, it wouldn't. But I don't think Nolan would do that. Out of respect for Heath and cuz CGI is not really his m.o. I could see a cell with a name on it or something like that. But I'm with the crowd that think Mister J will be mentioned in passing to tie in with Dent and the events of TDK. But having a scene at the end on a rooftop where Gordon tells Bats that the Joker is loose again would rock.
That's my ideal ending.

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Old 11-14-2011, 11:36 AM   #105
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Default Re: The Joker sized elephant in the room

If it ends with Joker escaping I will seriously be f*ing pissed off. Ending the trilogy with he Joker getting away? He is not even in the movie! The only ending that would be worse than that is if Batman also died.

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Old 11-14-2011, 11:39 AM   #106
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Default Re: The Joker sized elephant in the room

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Originally Posted by lordofthenerds View Post
I think people are forgetting how far CGI has gotten over the years. Would it be that difficult to recreate Heath's Joker for at least one scene?
I believe in that old resource called re-cast.

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Old 11-14-2011, 11:51 AM   #107
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Default Re: The Joker sized elephant in the room

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I believe in that old resource called re-cast.
**** that. If this really is just going to end as a trilogy, Joker might as well not even be in this one.

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Old 11-14-2011, 11:59 AM   #108
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Default Re: The Joker sized elephant in the room

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Originally Posted by lordofthenerds View Post
**** that.
Why?

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Originally Posted by lordofthenerds View Post
If this really is just going to end as a trilogy, Joker might as well not even be in this one.
Which is exactly what is going to happen.

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Old 11-14-2011, 12:02 PM   #109
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Default Re: The Joker sized elephant in the room

Well, I guess we all agree then.

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Old 11-14-2011, 12:16 PM   #110
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Default Re: The Joker sized elephant in the room

I wouldn't like an ending with a mentioning that the joker got away. This film is not about him.

I would however like to hear his name come from Bane, in a heated discussion before a fight scene with Bats. Something like; "you can't even take care of your city, you let the Joker run the show".....something to mock Batman. I have a feeling that Joker will be brought up this way...thus tying all the three films together.

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Old 11-14-2011, 12:28 PM   #111
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Default Re: The Joker sized elephant in the room

You're right the film is not about the Joker. Just as Batman Begins was not about him. But that little nugget at the end was uber cool without taking away from the film itself.

That being said, Bane saying his name would be alright with me.

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Old 11-14-2011, 12:34 PM   #112
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Default Re: The Joker sized elephant in the room

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I wouldn't like an ending with a mentioning that the joker got away. This film is not about him.

I would however like to hear his name come from Bane, in a heated discussion before a fight scene with Bats. Something like; "you can't even take care of your city, you let the Joker run the show".....something to mock Batman. I have a feeling that Joker will be brought up this way...thus tying all the three films together.
Easily the best way to mention the Joker in this film.

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Old 11-14-2011, 12:35 PM   #113
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Default Re: The Joker sized elephant in the room

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If it ends with Joker escaping I will seriously be f*ing pissed off. Ending the trilogy with he Joker getting away? He is not even in the movie! The only ending that would be worse than that is if Batman also died.
How is hearing that he has escaped at the end so bad? Everyone loved Gordon handing Batman a Joker card at the end of BB.

Hearing he exists in BB is fantastic....but hearing he still exists in TDKR is terrible?

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Old 11-14-2011, 12:40 PM   #114
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Default Re: The Joker sized elephant in the room

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You're almost right. When he's watching on TV the chaos Joker and Scarecrow have inflicted in their team up, he is impressed. He says "They do combine well for chaos. With more discipline they could take the city".
I think this would be the best way to show Joker, and Scarecrow, he's watching news reports of them after a breakout, or tapes of them on the news and he says those words.

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Old 11-14-2011, 12:51 PM   #115
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Default Re: The Joker sized elephant in the room

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That being said, Bane saying his name would be alright with me.
I see Bane referring to him as "the clown" or "the sideshow act", etc.

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Old 11-14-2011, 01:03 PM   #116
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Default Re: The Joker sized elephant in the room

Maybe Bane will kill the Joker as a way of gaining the trust of Gotham citizens. Something along the lines of he wont be reeking havoc in Gotham anymore, I took care of it.

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Old 11-14-2011, 01:15 PM   #117
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Default Re: The Joker sized elephant in the room

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my feeling is if FREAKING scarecrow can be a part of all 3 films, the Joker better get a nod in this finale as well...
This is basically how I feel. They'll do something for sure. I doubt it will be anything significant, but a decent nod would be appropriate.

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Old 11-14-2011, 01:47 PM   #118
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I see Bane referring to him as "the clown" or "the sideshow act", etc.
Something along this line. A literal name-drop wouldn't be typical of Chris Nolan as he is far more subtle, usually doing things of this nature with a wink and a nod to those who have been following along.

To address the topic in general, while I am sure that there will be no Joker in TDKR, I can understand completely why it's a hard thing to accept, even going so far as to outright deny the word that came straight from Chris Nolan's mouth.

Speaking from the mind of the general audience, you have a rising star in Heath Ledger who passionately portrayed the greatest villain since Satan himself, who arguably gave his life for such a role, and was literally left hanging. He's alive, he's the villain of the Bat-universe and he is infamous for his ability to escape confinement. Of course people are going to think that Joker could be in TDKR. After the shCHILDRENtstorm he created, it makes far less sense for him not to be acknowledge in some fashion, but alas, Ledger is gone and the Joker seemingly with him.

So fast forward to the next movie and you have.. Bane. Yeah. Great villain with greater potential, but, deep down, almost everyone knew that there would be nowhere to go but down after the one-two punch of Joker and Two-face. Bane is not the Joker, simple as that. Why people still wish for the Joker's return is because following up with Bane, regardless of his potential, is a disappointing decision to many. What can you do, though, when Ledger's done for and recasting would be a huge mistake at this point? Nolan's damned if he does and damned if he doesn't with regards to the Joker.

This movie will succeed for its sheer scope and epic storytelling, not because people give a shCHILDRENt about Bane. It makes perfect sense that Tom Hardy is playing him, really. Phenomenal actor/character that the mainstream is slowly learning about, but not yet household names. Hopefully things change after the release. Pretty sure they will.

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Old 11-14-2011, 01:56 PM   #119
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Default Re: The Joker sized elephant in the room

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How is hearing that he has escaped at the end so bad? Everyone loved Gordon handing Batman a Joker card at the end of BB.

Hearing he exists in BB is fantastic....but hearing he still exists in TDKR is terrible?
In BB we had hopes for a sequel with the Joker. In TDKR we will know that Heath is dead, that this is the last movie, etc. I think it would be too much of a bittersweet sad ending to have the Joker mentioned and would suck part of the impact away from Batman's victory in this final film.

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Old 11-14-2011, 01:57 PM   #120
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Default Re: The Joker sized elephant in the room

Seeing Batman approach Joker's cell in Arkham, and the camera angle is the back of Joker's head, facing Batman's face from outside the cell. We hear a Joker laugh. Boom - we see Joker, we hear Joker. What's so terrible about that?

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Old 11-14-2011, 02:03 PM   #121
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Default Re: The Joker sized elephant in the room

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How is hearing that he has escaped at the end so bad? Everyone loved Gordon handing Batman a Joker card at the end of BB.

Hearing he exists in BB is fantastic....but hearing he still exists in TDKR is terrible?
Hearing him exist? The problem is not hearing him escape. The suggestion is to end the franshise by having the villain escape. Off screen. The villain who has no part of the movie.

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Old 11-14-2011, 02:04 PM   #122
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Default Re: The Joker sized elephant in the room

There's the risk that any appearance of The Joker, even fleeting and hidden in shadow, would detract from Bane as the main villain of the piece in the eyes of the general audience.

I think of The Joker as Chekhov's gun. Don't put a loaded rifle on stage if you're not planning on firing it. The Joker is most definitely a loaded rifle.

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Old 11-14-2011, 02:06 PM   #123
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i think of the joker as chekhov's gun. Don't put a loaded rifle on stage if you're not planning on firing it. The joker is most definitely a loaded rifle.
+1...

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Old 11-14-2011, 02:10 PM   #124
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Default Re: The Joker sized elephant in the room

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In BB we had hopes for a sequel with the Joker. In TDKR we will know that Heath is dead, that this is the last movie, etc. I think it would be too much of a bittersweet sad ending to have the Joker mentioned and would suck part of the impact away from Batman's victory in this final film.
Tell me your honest thoughts on this:

It's the end of the movie. Batman is faced with the finality of his mission (as we are with the trilogy) and it's as if the life of his career as Batman flashes before his eyes. Quick cuts of the people he's saved, helped, taken out, loved... cuts of Harvey, of Ra's, Rachel, among others, and finally, Joker himself (maybe with that shot even drawn out a little longer than the others) before fading back into the situation and realization Batman is in at the moment.

It would serve as a nod to everyone we've come to know and appreciate dearly in the trilogy, both the characters and beloved actors who portrayed them (and especially those who have passed on).

This movie is supposed to be the end of a journey. There will be sentimental thoughts involved as we view the final moments. Why not show them on film as well for a more powerful impact? In the case of the Joker, such a moment would be a nod to the character and a heartfelt thank you to Heath Ledger.

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Old 11-14-2011, 02:12 PM   #125
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Default Re: The Joker sized elephant in the room

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Tell me your honest thoughts on this:

It's the end of the movie. Batman is faced with the finality of his mission (as we are with the trilogy) and its as if the life of his career as Batman flashes before his eyes. Quick cuts of the people he's saved, helped, taken out, loved... cuts of Harvey, of Ra's, Rachel and finally, Joker himself (maybe with that shot even drawn out a little longer than the others) before fading back into the situation and realization Batman is in at the moment.

It would serve as a nod to everyone we've come to know and appreciate dearly in the trilogy, both the characters and beloved actors who portrayed them (and especially those who have passed on).

This movie is supposed to be the end of a journey. There will be sentimental thoughts involved as we view the final moments. Why not show them on film as well for a more powerful impact? In the case of the Joker, such a moment would be a nod to the character and a heartfelt thank you to Heath Ledger.
Yeah I like the way that sounds.

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