Superman/Clark Kent/Kal-El Characterization - Part 1

[herolee10]

Originally Posted by hopefulsuicide

It's definitely different.

I mean, a massive part of being Superman is simply saving innocent people - whether from criminals or natural disasters. And it's not like he goes in thinking that is one day going to stop happening... there will ALWAYS be natural disasters, even if you get rid of all the criminals.

So people will ALWAYS need his help.

You either die a hero...or live long enough to see yourself work like Superman.

[hopefuldreamer]

Originally Posted by herolee10

You either die a hero...or live long enough to see yourself work like Superman.

Yeah that's pretty much the gist.

I think Batman's different in many ways, especially Nolan's Batman.

Batman for him is a creation that serves a specific purpose. He's working towards a goal that he actually sees, and he thinks once it's achieved his creation has served it's purpose.

It's not about naturally being an everyday hero, it's about following in his dads footsteps and using his power and skills to make Gotham a better place in the big picture.

Superman is so different from that.

Putting on that costume and adopting that persona, while it can be about creating the symbol and inspiring hope in the big picture, it's first and foremost a way for him to be able to save people's lives without everyone knowing who he is or where he's from (smallville).

This is especially evident if you have him saving people before donning the costume (like it appears he is in the oil rig scene). You can show that he's just the kind of guy that can't watch people in trouble if he can help - but that everytime he does it, he has to flee or he'll be mobbed by people with questions and fears.

Basically, Superman isn't a creation built for a single job that will be put away once it's done.

He's just Clark's way of doing what comes naturally to him, but without having to do it as himself.

And he's never going to be able to stop doing what comes naturally to him.

He's never going to be able to sit there knowing people are in trouble but think 'no, I'm retired, I'm not helping'

[Rodrigo90]

Reading Action Comics #1 for the first time has got me thinking.

Will we, maybe, just perhaps, see the more brutal Superman in this movie?

The difference would be from Superman politely knocking on a door, to smashing it down without a seconds thought.

That, in a way, does make Superman seem a guy that makes mistakes, which makes him someone the audience can relate to. I wouldn't mind that for the first movie, showing Superman growing more responsible and less of character like Batman. Cause the 1 real complaint about Batman Begins that I have, is for the fact that Bruce is dead sure of his path at the beginning of the movie. He doesn't seem to grow or show conflict within himself at all. He is who he is all throughout the movie. With Superman, I want to see him grow. Essentially from the character that he was from 1938, to who he was before Flashpoint. That would be interesting to see IMO.

[herolee10]

Originally Posted by Rodrigo90

Reading Action Comics #1 for the first time has got me thinking.

Will we, maybe, just perhaps, see the more brutal Superman in this movie?

The difference would be from Superman politely knocking on a door, to smashing it down without a seconds thought.

That, in a way, does make Superman seem a guy that makes mistakes, which makes him someone the audience can relate to. I wouldn't mind that for the first movie, showing Superman growing more responsible and less of character like Batman. Cause the 1 real complaint about Batman Begins that I have, is for the fact that Bruce is dead sure of his path at the beginning of the movie. He doesn't seem to grow or show conflict within himself at all. He is who he is all throughout the movie. With Superman, I want to see him grow. Essentially from the character that he was from 1938, to who he was before Flashpoint. That would be interesting to see IMO.

Personally, I can accept that with flying colors IF it's handled properly though.

I would hope that by the end of the film though, that Superman will be shown as to why he's considered the best of heroes, and that it's not because of his powers, but because of his character.

[Rodrigo90]

Originally Posted by herolee10

Personally, I can accept that with flying colors IF it's handled properly though.

I would hope that by the end of the film though, that Superman will be shown as to why he's considered the best of heroes, and that it's not because of his powers, but because of his character.

[Lead Cenobite]

Originally Posted by Rodrigo90

Reading Action Comics #1 for the first time has got me thinking.

Will we, maybe, just perhaps, see the more brutal Superman in this movie?

The difference would be from Superman politely knocking on a door, to smashing it down without a seconds thought.

That, in a way, does make Superman seem a guy that makes mistakes, which makes him someone the audience can relate to. I wouldn't mind that for the first movie, showing Superman growing more responsible and less of character like Batman. Cause the 1 real complaint about Batman Begins that I have, is for the fact that Bruce is dead sure of his path at the beginning of the movie. He doesn't seem to grow or show conflict within himself at all. He is who he is all throughout the movie. With Superman, I want to see him grow. Essentially from the character that he was from 1938, to who he was before Flashpoint. That would be interesting to see IMO.

I don't think Bruce was always certain of what he wanted to do. He started off wanting to murder Joe Chill in cold blood, murder and revenge, two things uncharacteristic of who he would become. Plus, even once he started on the path of becoming Batman, he didn't know what his methods would be until Ducard helped guide him.

[hopefuldreamer]

Originally Posted by Rodrigo90

Reading Action Comics #1 for the first time has got me thinking.

Will we, maybe, just perhaps, see the more brutal Superman in this movie?

The difference would be from Superman politely knocking on a door, to smashing it down without a seconds thought.

That, in a way, does make Superman seem a guy that makes mistakes, which makes him someone the audience can relate to. I wouldn't mind that for the first movie, showing Superman growing more responsible and less of character like Batman. Cause the 1 real complaint about Batman Begins that I have, is for the fact that Bruce is dead sure of his path at the beginning of the movie. He doesn't seem to grow or show conflict within himself at all. He is who he is all throughout the movie. With Superman, I want to see him grow. Essentially from the character that he was from 1938, to who he was before Flashpoint. That would be interesting to see IMO.

I'm all for them showing him as the logical threat that he is, a little more of an 'unknown' quantity to criminals (at least for the first film when they don't know he's a good guy yet), and incredibly passionate/outraged by scenarios he encounters.

However, there is such a delicate line there between doing that in a way that is Superman, and doing it in a way that is Batman, Daredevil etc.

I think the most important thing to remove is the 'polite' exterior towards criminals. Don't have him saying cheesy lines or being 'by the book' about things.

Like you said, don't knock on the door, break through it. Don't pick an attacker up by their belt and say 'That's not a very nice thing to do' like it's a 50's comedy show - have him burst through the door and hold the guy up against a wall.

But where Batman would be more focused on putting the fear into the criminal, Superman would turn his attention to the victim.

Easily holding the attacker at bay, he'd see that they were okay. He'd tell them they don't have to be afraid anymore.

I think that's the biggest difference.

[Slugster]

I agree

[Rodrigo90]

From what I know right now (since we in the UK are behind with the comics), is that Grant Morrison has took Supes back to what he, more or less, used to be in 1938. Superman was far more brutish back then, and he considered himself to be the voice of Metropolis. And the Superman before DC rebooted everything, was not the same in characterization.

I'm wondering what we are getting in MOS? The badass Supes or the golden boy Supes? I would love to see the gradual journey from what he was back then (and what he is now presently - at this point) to the golden boy before the reboot. Because the characterisation is quite controversial among fans. The Superman readers saw in the new AC#1 has had debate. Some prefer him now, and others prefer him before Flashpoint.

[manofsteel4life]

Originally Posted by hopefulsuicide

I'm all for them showing him as the logical threat that he is, a little more of an 'unknown' quantity to criminals (at least for the first film when they don't know he's a good guy yet), and incredibly passionate/outraged by scenarios he encounters.

However, there is such a delicate line there between doing that in a way that is Superman, and doing it in a way that is Batman, Daredevil etc.

I think the most important thing to remove is the 'polite' exterior towards criminals. Don't have him saying cheesy lines or being 'by the book' about things.

Like you said, don't knock on the door, break through it. Don't pick an attacker up by their belt and say 'That's not a very nice thing to do' like it's a 50's comedy show - have him burst through the door and hold the guy up against
a wall.

But where Batman would be more focused on putting the fear into the criminal, Superman would turn his attention to the victim.
Easily holding the attacker at bay, he'd see that they were okay. He'd tell them they don't have to be afraid anymore.

I think that's the biggest difference.

Exactly I think that's the biggest problem with making superman more aggressive, even though he was like that before batman.....but I can just see it now from people who don't know supermans history, their gonna say oh now he's tryna be like batman.....it's a very slippery slope IMO

[hopefuldreamer]

Originally Posted by Rodrigo90

From what I know right now (since we in the UK are behind with the comics), is that Grant Morrison has took Supes back to what he, more or less, used to be in 1938. Superman was far more brutish back then, and he considered himself to be the voice of Metropolis. And the Superman before DC rebooted everything, was not the same in characterization.

I'm wondering what we are getting in MOS? The badass Supes or the golden boy Supes? I would love to see the gradual journey from what he was back then (and what he is now presently - at this point) to the golden boy before the reboot. Because the characterisation is quite controversial among fans. The Superman readers saw in the new AC#1 has had debate. Some prefer him now, and others prefer him before Flashpoint.

Are we behind? I'm on subscription from a UK site, and I don't notice US people being ahead of me...

Originally Posted by manofsteel4life

Exactly I think that's the biggest problem with making superman more aggressive, even though he was like that before batman.....but I can just see it now from people who don't know supermans history, their gonna say oh now he's tryna be like batman.....it's a very slippery slope IMO

Yeah, unfortunately, because this Superman movie has been such a long time coming, and is now coming after a lot of Superhero movies, there are bound to be moments in the general publics eyes that are 'copying' other superhero movies... even if we know for a fact that he did it first.

[Rodrigo90]

Originally Posted by hopefulsuicide

Are we behind? I'm on subscription from a UK site, and I don't notice US people being ahead of me...

I got DC Universe Presents last thursday, and it had the first issues of Justice League, Superman and Green Lantern. Do you know something I don't?

[hopefuldreamer]

Originally Posted by Rodrigo90

I got DC Universe Presents last thursday, and it had the first issues of Justice League, Superman and Green Lantern. Do you know something I don't?

Seriously confused... I mean, I bought all the first issues when they first came out from ebay, and now I am on subscription with Comic Domain, and UK comics site... there's nothing dodgy about it. As far as I know, there is no difference in release dates between US and UK (might be out by a few days but certainly not this long...)

Where do you get your comics?

[Llama_Shepherd]

US gets comics on Wednesdays, UK on Thursdays. I think.

[Rodrigo90]

Originally Posted by hopefulsuicide

Seriously confused... I mean, I bought all the first issues when they first came out from ebay, and now I am on subscription with Comic Domain, and UK comics site... there's nothing dodgy about it. As far as I know, there is no difference in release dates between US and UK (might be out by a few days but certainly not this long...)

Where do you get your comics?

I see. I just get Batman Legends and DCUP from the newsagents every month. I'm SERIOUSLY behind then

[Llama_Shepherd]

Yeah, Batman Legends is about 18 months behind, they're ridiculous. You should get a subscription really from one of the places HS recommended, or swing by the comics corner, Anubis will probably be able to hook you up with transvestites or subscriptions or whatever.

[hopefuldreamer]

Originally Posted by Llama_Shepherd

Anubis will probably be able to hook you up with transvestites or subscriptions or whatever.

[Rodrigo90]

Originally Posted by Llama_Shepherd

Yeah, Batman Legends is about 18 months behind, they're ridiculous. You should get a subscription really from one of the places HS recommended, or swing by the comics corner, Anubis will probably be able to hook you up with transvestites or subscriptions or whatever.

The transvestites sounds interesting, but I'll stick with the comics

[manofsteel4life]

I wonder if there is a post Zod in this movie....like after Zod and co is defeated we see a more established superman or is that to much in one movie?

[hopefuldreamer]

I'd say that'll probably be too much. And one of the reasons I desperately hope we get one more movie.

[herolee10]

One thing that I definitely hope to see in this incarnation is Superman giving off that trademark smile of his whenever having just rescued someone since from what I understand, that's his sincere way of telling them that they're safe now. In fact, if memory serves me correct, it's one of the reasons why Superman is so trusted by the public since people really do feel safe when they see that reassuring smile of his, something that most other heroes don't or won't give whenever rescuing someone.

[Rodrigo90]

I can see the script now

Superman hands the cat over to the little girl. He turns to the crowd and gives them a smile, a SUPER smile. His shiny white teeth sparkle, stunning the citizens at how white his teeth are. They trust him.

[hopefuldreamer]

Originally Posted by Rodrigo90

I can see the script now

Superman hands the cat over to the little girl. He turns to the crowd and gives them a smile, a SUPER smile. His shiny white teeth sparkle, stunning the citizens at how white his teeth are. They trust him.

I think there are ways of showing how he's different to other heroes in the way he makes people feel safe, without going ultra cheesy.

I mean, just saying the line 'It's okay, your safe now' in Superman's calming voice, would be magic to me.

[manofsteel4life]

Originally Posted by hopefulsuicide

I'd say that'll probably be too much. And one of the reasons I desperately hope we get one more movie.

Yea figured

[Rodrigo90]

Originally Posted by hopefulsuicide

I think there are ways of showing how he's different to other heroes in the way he makes people feel safe, without going ultra cheesy.

I mean, just saying the line 'It's okay, your safe now' in Superman's calming voice, would be magic to me.

Defo. But he could still win us over with that cheesy SUPER SMILE!!!