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#51 | |
Banned User
Join Date: Dec 2011
Posts: 22
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It isn't about vanity at all, that's why.
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See I can correct spelling as well. ![]() There is no vanity in the Joker. His looks are merely eccentric, theatrical, and flamboyant. He's not combing his hair, tucking in his shirts, wearing fadoras, dressing like a mobster. Afterall the Joker is highlighting the differences between himself and typical Gotham criminals from their underworld. That's why the second Joker does get concerned with his look (IE "hello beautiful") and sloppily moves his hair back ... it's supposed to be comical, because he is so disgusting looking. |
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#52 | ||
239-Bean Irish Chili
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 16,733
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![]() Nice try, though. ![]() He's also not wearing torn or tattered loose-fitting shirts or pants, plaid flannels...... Again...more 'mod' than 'grunge', if you will...or maybe a combination thereof from clothes to face, respectively. 'Modge'....or 'Grud'.... ![]()
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Last edited by KalMart; 12-22-2011 at 03:38 PM. |
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#53 | |
Banned User
Join Date: Dec 2011
Posts: 22
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Oh and he is wearing a plaid flannel, purple and blue, in the bank robbery scene under his blue suit coat. Either way, you're wrong. The film makers have specifically said his look was grungy, punk rock, anarchist. Not vanity, mobster, mod, or whatever you want to call it. Last edited by NolansKnight; 12-22-2011 at 03:45 PM. |
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#54 |
Side-Kick
Join Date: Jan 2011
Posts: 1,673
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As a punk/hardcore kid, I can confidently say that many punks are very much so vain about their appearance and the "uniform" that is punk fashion. It's pretty lame, if you ask me.
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#55 | ||||
239-Bean Irish Chili
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 16,733
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![]() And...... ![]() .....plaid? Maybe there's a Nirvana T-shirt underneath there or something. Awwwww......! Quote:
'Night. ![]()
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#56 | ||
239-Bean Irish Chili
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 16,733
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#57 |
Wild Cherry
Join Date: Nov 2011
Posts: 5,000
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Actually, the suit....it wasn't cheap.
Seriously though, that line makes it clear that he's not exactly walking around like a hobo, as you keep trying to say. Yeah, he does get disheveled and his makeup smears, but I don't think it is as big of a deal as you are making it...Also, why would he then put on fresh make-up every time if he didn't care? The Joker actually had a pretty classy outfit. Custom made, too. I liked that he had a certain panache to him. And I disagree, I think Bane better suits what you are trying to say, as his outfit is PURELY functional. Nothing stylish about it. |
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#58 | |
Side-Kick
Join Date: Jan 2011
Posts: 1,673
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That being said, I once went to a show with a kid that wore a three piece suit. He was the only unique person there and he in no way considered himself a "punk." And yet he just didn't care about fitting into that, he went, he had a ton of fun and he was wearing a three piece suit. That's hilarious to see in a mosh pit. |
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#59 |
Banned User
Join Date: Dec 2011
Posts: 22
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You can see the plaid undercoat when he's getting into the bus after the robbery.
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#60 | ||
239-Bean Irish Chili
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 16,733
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#61 | ||
239-Bean Irish Chili
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 16,733
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#62 |
Side-Kick
Join Date: Jan 2011
Posts: 1,673
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No, this kid was 15. We went to the show one Friday night... I can't remember why he wore what he wore. He just did it. Good times.
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#63 | ||
239-Bean Irish Chili
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 16,733
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![]() 15....was he at least chaperoned?
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#64 |
Side-Kick
Join Date: Jan 2011
Posts: 1,673
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Well, you could say that. I was 17 or 18 at the time. Hahaha.
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#65 | |
Banned User
Join Date: Dec 2011
Posts: 22
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![]() It's visible, re-watch the scene. Get a job, upgrade your tv to high def and get a blu-ray. Slacker. ![]() |
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#66 | ||
239-Bean Irish Chili
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 16,733
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![]() I heard they're plaid boxers.
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#67 |
Banned User
Join Date: Dec 2011
Posts: 22
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They probably are ... long underwear actually. Tucked into his socks to convey the obvious vanity Nolan was going for with his "grunge, anarchist, street" type Joker.
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#68 | |
239-Bean Irish Chili
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 16,733
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Worn loosely....like a good grunge-boy should.....
...but it's just a rumor.
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#69 |
Banned User
Join Date: Dec 2011
Posts: 22
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True. Either way, get a job and treat yourself to a new tv.
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#70 | ||
239-Bean Irish Chili
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 16,733
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#71 |
Banned User
Join Date: Dec 2011
Posts: 22
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You're excessive use of gay emoticons tells me you bought a new tv, while you still live with your parents and don't have to pay: rent, car note, bills, etc. Congrats.
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#72 | ||
239-Bean Irish Chili
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 16,733
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![]() That'd be pretty grunge....
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#73 |
Banned User
Join Date: Nov 2011
Posts: 507
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Heath Ledger's Joker isn't anywhere near Malcolm McDowell's Alex from A Clockwork Orange.
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#74 | |||
Vigilante Detective
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: The Bat-Garage
Posts: 4,785
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But I guess that's not the movie Nolan is making. Freeze is a different archetype altogether. Strange, however, was easily an archetype covered by mad-scientist-with-psychological-fetish Jonathan Crane. And I still think that the Riddler is somewhat different from the Joker in the sense that he's always the invisible trickster, whereas Joker is the more aggressive and I'll say extroverted trickster. But yeah, both are very much alike and an invisible Riddler like he's in Hush would simply make him an anti-Joker. Bane is an inspired choice. Quote:
I'm sure we'll get another Batman film after TDKR that goes back to the comics, at least visually, but I just don't see the point in that. After Batman Returns it would've been excellent to see a 9-year-old traumatised Dick Grayson -centric story that gave us a matured look at Robin and a fatherly Wayne seeing himself in the boy. Like the episodes in BTAS. Now... I just don't see that happening. Maybe it would've worked if Nolan limited his trilogy to the early-years, but he isn't. I don't want to see "whats next for Batman-on-film". I'd like to celebrate this masterpiece for a while longer. No harm there right guys? Yup. We should try and listing the different archetypes that comprise Batman's rogues gallery. Anyone game? ![]() Oh and, excellent post on the Joker NolansKnight |
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#75 | |
Caballero de la Luz
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 2,479
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I think it is a little exagerated to think that Nolan takes the remaining characters as "watered down versions of the Joker", because he took almost every A-list villain onto his films. Scarecrow, Ra's al Ghul, The Joker, Two-Face, Bane, Catwoman, Talia al Ghul, and also taking in count Victor Zsaz, Carmine Falcone, Salvatore Maroni.
We know now that the studio was pushing for The Riddler, which I think it is the wrong choice with upping up the game in the third film. And not necessarily because it would be too similar to the Joker, but because the modus operandi, with his mind games (which I think they are completely different from the Joker in motivation) of the character would make the film feel like another episode of the franchise, hence similar to The Dark Knight. It could have been awesome, but not necessarily progression and culmination, which is what Nolan aimed at first. Who is left? Besides the Riddler, we have Mr. Freeze, Clayface, Poison Ivy, Man-Bat who are to Sci-Fi for this world, though I would have loved to see Nolan's interpretation of Mr. Freeze. Killer Croc can't sustain a movie on his own, and though not impossible to make, it would have been tricky. The Penguin would have fit into this world, but to make it work it would have been retreading into the gangsters of the previous films. The Ventriloquist and Scarface, who are a personal favorite of mine, would get stuck in the same way as the Penguin. Mad Hatter wouldn't fit the bill either, falling into the same territory as Riddler. Harley Quinn well, if the Joker was not returning, there is no reason to have her. I don't like Black Mask, but then again, we would be back with the mob. Other characters like We have left then with Hugo Strange, Deadshot and Bane, from which Bane is the only one who can offer a physical challenge with plausible characteristics, and he fits the bill of an "ending" villian of sorts. We have to take into account that Chris Nolan, while being a fan of the character, isn't well versed in the Batman comics. I recently aquired "The Art and Making of The Dark Knight Trilogy", and in the chapter where there are developing Batman Begins, David Goyer is the man Chris Nolan chooses for developing the story, and Nolan was fascinated by the story. Nolan states that, for Begins, they didn't want to do any of the other villians already made on the previous films. I'll transcribe an excerpt. Quote:
From what I have seen, story has come up first in the process of making the films, and a sense of progression with what have been done. I can see that for the third film, Nolan wanted first and foremost, make and ending for Bruce's journey, and there are few villains with the reputation and characteristics that can offer something new that could serve for a finale, instead of a more episodic approach.
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A hero can be anyone. Even a man doing something as simple and reassuring as putting a coat around a young boy's shoulders to let him know that the world hadn't ended. |
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