The SuperHeroHype Forums  

Go Back   The SuperHeroHype Forums > Superman > Man of Steel

View Poll Results: Should this Superman kill?
No. 133 70.00%
Yes, its about time 32 16.84%
He should Find a way to send them to the Phantom Zone 14 7.37%
Other (explain) 11 5.79%
Voters: 190. You may not vote on this poll

Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 12-26-2011, 09:48 PM   #976
hopefuldreamer
Bangarang!
 
hopefuldreamer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: South West, UK
Posts: 11,346
Default Re: Should this Superman kill?

I feel the same.

I mean, it's not even like he's never killed before. He's killed in the comics, Zod and co where killed in Superman 2...

It's just a consistent factor in all of the stories and interpretations that I consider the best, and it's THOSE that I would hope the creators of MOS most take their characterisation from.

Not the odd old stories where he does kill or the weird examples that people think prove something.

__________________
I think back to my father. As a farmer, he had a natural understanding for the Earth. I remember him telling me this world is capable of providing for all its creatures. Even now, with so many more people, there exists enough food for everyone.

"The problem," Pa used to say, "is people. As far back as we go, we've always had problems with sharing. Seems everyone's too busy holding on to what they've got to care how their neighbors are doing."


*\S/T*
hopefuldreamer is offline  
Old 12-26-2011, 09:51 PM   #977
Thundercrack85
Side-Kick
 
Thundercrack85's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 15,099
Default Re: Should this Superman kill?

Considering the character has appeared in comics, radio plays, movies, cartoons, with hundreds of writers, I think there is quite a range of characterization. Some of which he has killed in.

Batman, or Bruce Wayne at least kills several people in Batman Begins when he destroys the League of Shadows headquarters. Batman also killed Two-Face in the Dark Knight. In a plausible, live-action adaption, those things happen.

Thundercrack85 is offline  
Old 12-26-2011, 09:54 PM   #978
hopefuldreamer
Bangarang!
 
hopefuldreamer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: South West, UK
Posts: 11,346
Default Re: Should this Superman kill?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Thundercrack85 View Post
Batman, or Bruce Wayne at least kills several people in Batman Begins when he destroys the League of Shadows headquarters. Batman also killed Two-Face in the Dark Knight. In a plausible, live-action adaption, those things happen.
I'd say those 'kills' he is responsible for in those movies are a FLAW. So it's not really a good arguement for why we should have them in MOS.

__________________
I think back to my father. As a farmer, he had a natural understanding for the Earth. I remember him telling me this world is capable of providing for all its creatures. Even now, with so many more people, there exists enough food for everyone.

"The problem," Pa used to say, "is people. As far back as we go, we've always had problems with sharing. Seems everyone's too busy holding on to what they've got to care how their neighbors are doing."


*\S/T*
hopefuldreamer is offline  
Old 12-26-2011, 09:57 PM   #979
Thundercrack85
Side-Kick
 
Thundercrack85's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 15,099
Default Re: Should this Superman kill?

So, what happens to villains? He just locks them up or lets them go? Hope they all fall to their own death Disney style?

Thundercrack85 is offline  
Old 12-26-2011, 10:07 PM   #980
hopefuldreamer
Bangarang!
 
hopefuldreamer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: South West, UK
Posts: 11,346
Default Re: Should this Superman kill?

And why is locking up criminals ridiculous again?

__________________
I think back to my father. As a farmer, he had a natural understanding for the Earth. I remember him telling me this world is capable of providing for all its creatures. Even now, with so many more people, there exists enough food for everyone.

"The problem," Pa used to say, "is people. As far back as we go, we've always had problems with sharing. Seems everyone's too busy holding on to what they've got to care how their neighbors are doing."


*\S/T*
hopefuldreamer is offline  
Old 12-26-2011, 10:12 PM   #981
Thundercrack85
Side-Kick
 
Thundercrack85's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 15,099
Default Re: Should this Superman kill?

Quote:
Originally Posted by hopefulsuicide View Post
And why is locking up criminals ridiculous again?
Lex Luthor, sure. But Darkseid? Doomsday? Zod? Guessing that's why they had him kill Zod in the comics, be rather anti-climatic and pointless to throw him into the Phantom Zone. Having a reoccurring villain who constantly breaks out of prison may work in the comics, but it doesn't in live action movies.

Thundercrack85 is offline  
Old 12-26-2011, 10:14 PM   #982
hopefuldreamer
Bangarang!
 
hopefuldreamer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: South West, UK
Posts: 11,346
Default Re: Should this Superman kill?

Why is that anti climactic or pointless?

Human prison for humans. Alien prison for aliens.

Doesn't seem ridiculous at all to me.

__________________
I think back to my father. As a farmer, he had a natural understanding for the Earth. I remember him telling me this world is capable of providing for all its creatures. Even now, with so many more people, there exists enough food for everyone.

"The problem," Pa used to say, "is people. As far back as we go, we've always had problems with sharing. Seems everyone's too busy holding on to what they've got to care how their neighbors are doing."


*\S/T*
hopefuldreamer is offline  
Old 12-26-2011, 10:16 PM   #983
Godzilla2014
Deadpan Snarker
 
Godzilla2014's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 6,844
Default Re: Should this Superman kill?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Thundercrack85 View Post
Lex Luthor, sure. But Darkseid? Doomsday? Zod? Guessing that's why they had him kill Zod in the comics, be rather anti-climatic and pointless to throw him into the Phantom Zone.
If the Phantom Zone is used, I hope that it's established beforehand as an effective means of imprisoning these villain prior to its employment, so it doesn't come off as a deus ex machina to prevent Superman from having to consider killing villains.

__________________
Fan of Christopher Nolan's Batman!
Quote:
Originally Posted by KRIM View Post
This post was brought to you by Godzilla.

http://i.imgur.com/6FNiJ.jpg

The more you know.
Godzilla2014 is offline  
Old 12-26-2011, 10:23 PM   #984
Thundercrack85
Side-Kick
 
Thundercrack85's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 15,099
Default Re: Should this Superman kill?

Quote:
Originally Posted by hopefulsuicide View Post
Why is that anti climactic or pointless?

Human prison for humans. Alien prison for aliens.

Doesn't seem ridiculous at all to me.
Because it doesn't accomplish anything. It doesn't eliminate the threat. Especially if the character was already imprisoned and escaped when the story began (which is usually Zod's backstory). If the villain keeps escaping, that makes the hero look incompetent.

Unless they want to make it a plot point so that Zod can come back in a later movie ( la Magneto in X-Men). But even then, he can only be imprisoned so many times before it becomes a dead horse trope.

I don't think Superman has to kill, but he shouldn't be obsessed with it to the point of it crippling his ability to fight powerful enemies.

Thundercrack85 is offline  
Old 12-26-2011, 10:26 PM   #985
hopefuldreamer
Bangarang!
 
hopefuldreamer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: South West, UK
Posts: 11,346
Default Re: Should this Superman kill?

It accomlishes the EXACT same thing as imprisoning Lex Luthor.

Or for that matter, in the real world, imprisoning any criminal.

Lex often escapes jail too... so by your logic, Superman appears incompetant for not killing him too, right?

__________________
I think back to my father. As a farmer, he had a natural understanding for the Earth. I remember him telling me this world is capable of providing for all its creatures. Even now, with so many more people, there exists enough food for everyone.

"The problem," Pa used to say, "is people. As far back as we go, we've always had problems with sharing. Seems everyone's too busy holding on to what they've got to care how their neighbors are doing."


*\S/T*
hopefuldreamer is offline  
Old 12-26-2011, 10:35 PM   #986
Thundercrack85
Side-Kick
 
Thundercrack85's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 15,099
Default Re: Should this Superman kill?

Quote:
Originally Posted by hopefulsuicide View Post
It accomlishes the EXACT same thing as imprisoning Lex Luthor.

Or for that matter, in the real world, imprisoning any criminal.

Lex often escapes jail too... so by your logic, Superman appears incompetant for not killing him too, right?
Depends, most criminals in real life can't destroy / conquer entire worlds. But yes, it does get tired and silly very quickly if Lex Luthor keeps escaping from prison. Unless its played for laughs, then maybe. But I assume it's not supposed to be a comedy. He's not Sideshow Bob.

Does the not killing under any condition clause extend to machines like Brainiac? Assuming he's not an alien.

Thundercrack85 is offline  
Old 12-26-2011, 10:41 PM   #987
hopefuldreamer
Bangarang!
 
hopefuldreamer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: South West, UK
Posts: 11,346
Default Re: Should this Superman kill?

No, most human criminals are not as dangerous.

But that's precisely why there are alien prisons like the phantom zone, which are MUCH more suited to containing that level of threat.

And personally, I don't think it's tired and silly to show a criminal repeat offending, especially one like Lex.

That's just realistic IMO.

As far as brainiac is concerned, I think it depends on how he is characterised.

__________________
I think back to my father. As a farmer, he had a natural understanding for the Earth. I remember him telling me this world is capable of providing for all its creatures. Even now, with so many more people, there exists enough food for everyone.

"The problem," Pa used to say, "is people. As far back as we go, we've always had problems with sharing. Seems everyone's too busy holding on to what they've got to care how their neighbors are doing."


*\S/T*
hopefuldreamer is offline  
Old 12-27-2011, 05:54 PM   #988
Lead Cenobite
Exquisitely Empty
 
Lead Cenobite's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: US
Posts: 3,060
Default Re: Should this Superman kill?

While I feel Superman should be allowed to kill in desperate situations where there are no other options available, I don't think he should just take his enemies out because he's sick of them breaking out of prison over and over again. That's what Superman did with pocket universe Zod and company. There was no guarantee that they would get their powers back, gold k is supposed to be permanent.

__________________
Superman with realistic physics isn't Superman.
Lead Cenobite is offline  
Old 12-27-2011, 08:09 PM   #989
Doomed_hero
Side-Kick
 
Doomed_hero's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Camelot
Posts: 8,883
Default Re: Should this Superman kill?

There are worse things then death and Superman has found ways to do them in the comics much like others. Killing comes off as lazy writing. There is always another way.

__________________
Luke: Never. I'll never turn to the Dark Side. You've failed, your highness. I am a Jedi, like my father before me.
The Emperor: So be it... Jedi.
Doomed_hero is offline  
Old 12-27-2011, 08:50 PM   #990
Lead Cenobite
Exquisitely Empty
 
Lead Cenobite's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: US
Posts: 3,060
Default Re: Should this Superman kill?

Worse? You're arguing against killing now because it's not bad enough?

__________________
Superman with realistic physics isn't Superman.
Lead Cenobite is offline  
Old 12-27-2011, 09:44 PM   #991
hopefuldreamer
Bangarang!
 
hopefuldreamer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: South West, UK
Posts: 11,346
Default Re: Should this Superman kill?



This thread...

__________________
I think back to my father. As a farmer, he had a natural understanding for the Earth. I remember him telling me this world is capable of providing for all its creatures. Even now, with so many more people, there exists enough food for everyone.

"The problem," Pa used to say, "is people. As far back as we go, we've always had problems with sharing. Seems everyone's too busy holding on to what they've got to care how their neighbors are doing."


*\S/T*
hopefuldreamer is offline  
Old 12-27-2011, 09:47 PM   #992
Thundercrack85
Side-Kick
 
Thundercrack85's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 15,099
Default Re: Should this Superman kill?

I'm going to laugh if Superman just causally throws a mook off a building to his death in the first few minutes of the movie.

Thundercrack85 is offline  
Old 12-27-2011, 09:51 PM   #993
hopefuldreamer
Bangarang!
 
hopefuldreamer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: South West, UK
Posts: 11,346
Default Re: Should this Superman kill?

Yeah, that'd be well funny

__________________
I think back to my father. As a farmer, he had a natural understanding for the Earth. I remember him telling me this world is capable of providing for all its creatures. Even now, with so many more people, there exists enough food for everyone.

"The problem," Pa used to say, "is people. As far back as we go, we've always had problems with sharing. Seems everyone's too busy holding on to what they've got to care how their neighbors are doing."


*\S/T*
hopefuldreamer is offline  
Old 12-27-2011, 09:59 PM   #994
KalMart
239-Bean Irish Chili
 
KalMart's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: NYC
Posts: 16,425
Default Re: Should this Superman kill?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Thundercrack85 View Post
I'm going to laugh if Superman just causally throws a mook off a building to his death in the first few minutes of the movie.
...and he hits a shmuck on the ground....accompanied by a punter....

__________________
KalMart's Vids on YouTube
Quote:
Originally Posted by Matt
Plus, is the infatuation that teenage girls have with pseudo-vampires any less sad than your infatuation with men in spandex and Heath Ledger? Its probably more justifiable for them. :)
KalMart is offline  
Old 12-28-2011, 10:43 PM   #995
Fudgie
Banned User
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 2,197
Default Re: Should this Superman kill?

No, just like Batman shouldn't kill.

Fudgie is offline  
Old 12-31-2011, 12:29 AM   #996
Kurosawa
Banned User
 
Kurosawa's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: 22,300 miles above the Earth
Posts: 9,485
Default Re: Should this Superman kill?

Quote:
Originally Posted by hopefulsuicide View Post
No, most human criminals are not as dangerous.

But that's precisely why there are alien prisons like the phantom zone, which are MUCH more suited to containing that level of threat.

And personally, I don't think it's tired and silly to show a criminal repeat offending, especially one like Lex.

That's just realistic IMO.

As far as brainiac is concerned, I think it depends on how he is characterised.
Brainiac is an android and therefore not alive-Superman has never killed him but he has reprogrammed him before.

Kurosawa is offline  
Old 12-31-2011, 12:34 AM   #997
Lead Cenobite
Exquisitely Empty
 
Lead Cenobite's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: US
Posts: 3,060
Default Re: Should this Superman kill?

Well, he was alive.. atleast in his first appearance, and of course in the Byrne reboot. When it comes to things like androids, it's kinda hard to define what's ethical. It's sortof an uncomfortable area for people, whether something built can be considered life.

__________________
Superman with realistic physics isn't Superman.
Lead Cenobite is offline  
Old 12-31-2011, 01:05 AM   #998
ripse
Spider-Man_Blue
 
ripse's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: E_J
Posts: 453
Default Re: Should this Superman kill?

I said no, the man of steel just try trail from TDK movie....try to success with new style from fans wanted (no pants at least)..

ripse is offline  
Old 12-31-2011, 03:11 PM   #999
Kurosawa
Banned User
 
Kurosawa's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: 22,300 miles above the Earth
Posts: 9,485
Default Re: Should this Superman kill?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lead Cenobite View Post
Well, he was alive.. atleast in his first appearance, and of course in the Byrne reboot. When it comes to things like androids, it's kinda hard to define what's ethical. It's sortof an uncomfortable area for people, whether something built can be considered life.
The original version was an android, there's nothing in his first appearance that contradicts that. The Byrne version was an okay character, he just shouldn't have been called Brainiac.

I don't like the idea of Superman destroying sentient androids. I personally would not have him do that, nor would I have him destroy non-living creatures like Bizarro. It's also part of why I can see Waid's point about him being a vegetarian, especially considering that he doesn't need to eat or breathe anyway.

Kurosawa is offline  
Old 12-31-2011, 05:10 PM   #1000
Lead Cenobite
Exquisitely Empty
 
Lead Cenobite's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: US
Posts: 3,060
Default Re: Should this Superman kill?

From what I understand, the original Brainiac was more or less an archetypical evil green alien and there wasn't anything in particular to point to him being a machine, but considering they never went into the details of his biology or lack thereof, it was easy to retcon.

__________________
Superman with realistic physics isn't Superman.
Lead Cenobite is offline  
Closed Thread

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 10:09 AM.

monitoring_string = "dee460792f24517621e3ca080805de7e"
Contact Us - Mobile - SuperHeroHype - ComingSoon.net - Shock Till You Drop - Lost Password - Clear Cookies - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service - Top - AdChoices


Powered by vBulletin®
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
SuperHeroHype.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. 2014 All Rights Reserved.