OFFICIAL: Hugo Weaving is Red Skull - Part 6/6/44

[Silvermoth]

Yeah, they could have taken the training wheels off him a bit. Off the whole movie really.

[Spider-Fan]

Originally Posted by AVEITWITHJAMON

I loved the tone of the movie i'll agree that it was in the old style serial movies, but cant agree about Red Skull, you have this great actor playing him and you barely give him anything to do, it was really dissapointing, I just didnt find him menacing at all, he probably did worse things in the movie than Loki or Stane did but yet they were much more menacing and much better villains.

But, they were different types/styles of villain for different types of movies. You can't just make the Red Skull too brutal in a film this light hearted, otherwise it throws off the tone/pacing of the rest of the film, so you'd have to make the entire film more gritty to make it consistant. He was supposed to be more old style/Bond esque. He served as an efficient mirror for Captain America thematically, and I liked what they did with him. Naturally, if he comes back, he, like Cap, should be a changed man. But, I think for this film, he works very well.

[marcvader]

Originally Posted by Spider-Fan

But, they were different types/styles of villain for different types of movies. You can't just make the Red Skull too brutal in a film this light hearted, otherwise it throws off the tone/pacing of the rest of the film, so you'd have to make the entire film more gritty to make it consistant. He was supposed to be more old style/Bond esque. He served as an efficient mirror for Captain America thematically, and I liked what they did with him. Naturally, if he comes back, he, like Cap, should be a changed man. But, I think for this film, he works very well.

That's my view on the matter as well. If the Skull is used in a Cap sequel in the present day they can give us one that is more in line with the one we have in the comics today.

[AVEITWITHJAMON]

Originally Posted by Silvermoth

Yeah, they could have taken the training wheels off him a bit. Off the whole movie really.

Definately, and the movie would have benefitted greatly from it.

Originally Posted by Spider-Fan

But, they were different types/styles of villain for different types of movies. You can't just make the Red Skull too brutal in a film this light hearted, otherwise it throws off the tone/pacing of the rest of the film, so you'd have to make the entire film more gritty to make it consistant. He was supposed to be more old style/Bond esque. He served as an efficient mirror for Captain America thematically, and I liked what they did with him. Naturally, if he comes back, he, like Cap, should be a changed man. But, I think for this film, he works very well.

I know the movie was supposed to be light-hearted, but so were the Spiderman movies, and they gave us some great villains, The Green Goblin, Harry Goblin and Doc Ock especially did some pretty evil things in the movies which far surpass anything the Red Skull did. They also had darker moments than RS did and yet we still felt sympathetic for them. Even Sandman and Venom, who were a step down from those 3, seemed more interesting than RS, and all 3 of those were light-hearted movies.

RS talked a big game, but he just didnt come across as threatening at all, not once did I worry for Cap's safety, or that Cap wouldnt succeed, and thats because the villain wasnt enough of a threat. Not one scene in the movie had me on the edge of my seat and this was down to the villain IMO. Also, Sebastien Shaw was an old style Bond villain as well, and he was in a PREQUEL, yet still moments involving him had me on the edge of my seat and worrying for the fate of the good guys, despite me knowing they would live. Now, IMO Hugo Weaving is a more talented actor than Kevin Bacon, yet the latter created a much more threatening and menacing villain.

I hope if we do see Skull again, they let Hugo off the reigns a little bit, as we know from past experience he can give a great villain performance.

[Spider-Fan]

Originally Posted by AVEITWITHJAMON

I know the movie was supposed to be light-hearted, but so were the Spiderman movies, and they gave us some great villains, The Green Goblin, Harry Goblin and Doc Ock especially did some pretty evil things in the movies which far surpass anything the Red Skull did. They also had darker moments than RS did and yet we still felt sympathetic for them. Even Sandman and Venom, who were a step down from those 3, seemed more interesting than RS, and all 3 of those were light-hearted movies.

The Red Skull is not a villain we should be feeling sympathy for. I also disagree on having no edge of the seat moments. I thought the last battle in the cockpit was very dramatic and I was on the edge of my seat. Same also applies to when they first meet. We'll have to disagree here.

RS talked a big game, but he just didnt come across as threatening at all, not once did I worry for Cap's safety, or that Cap wouldnt succeed, and thats because the villain wasnt enough of a threat. Not one scene in the movie had me on the edge of my seat and this was down to the villain IMO. Also, Sebastien Shaw was an old style Bond villain as well, and he was in a PREQUEL, yet still moments involving him had me on the edge of my seat and worrying for the fate of the good guys, despite me knowing they would live. Now, IMO Hugo Weaving is a more talented actor than Kevin Bacon, yet the latter created a much more threatening and menacing villain.

X:FC was an edgier film than Cap was.

[AVEITWITHJAMON]

Originally Posted by Spider-Fan

The Red Skull is not a villain we should be feeling sympathy for.

Agreed, I wasnt implying that, I was saying sympathetic villains like the ones in the Spiderman series came accross a lot more threatening than RS did, and RS is supposed to be pure evil. Also, I was giving examples of villains working well in lighthearted movies.

Originally Posted by Spider-Fan

I also disagree on having no edge of the seat moments. I thought the last battle in the cockpit was very dramatic and I was on the edge of my seat. Same also applies to when they first meet. We'll have to disagree here.

I'll agree about the part were they first meet, that is the best part of the movie for me, especially the shot of them on the bridge wanting to confront each other but they cant because it is seperating them. That was an iconic shot and I expected the movie, and The Red Skull, to go from strength to strength after that, but both took a bit of a dip. The movie though recovered once Steve decided to sacrifice himself and the subsequent talk with Peggy, but RS was gone by then.

Originally Posted by Spider-Fan

X:FC was an edgier film than Cap was.

And thats why, IMO, it was the best CB of the year and had one of the best villains of the year, Cap, while I liked it, didnt come close to either.

[Spider-Fan]

Originally Posted by AVEITWITHJAMON

Agreed, I wasnt implying that, I was saying sympathetic villains like the ones in the Spiderman series came accross a lot more threatening than RS did, and RS is supposed to be pure evil. Also, I was giving examples of villains working well in lighthearted movies.

GG and Ock maybe can be argued, but none of the SM3 villains were as threatening as RS.

I'll agree about the part were they first meet, that is the best part of the movie for me, especially the shot of them on the bridge wanting to confront each other but they cant because it is seperating them. That was an iconic shot and I expected the movie, and The Red Skull, to go from strength to strength after that, but both took a bit of a dip. The movie though recovered once Steve decided to sacrifice himself and the subsequent talk with Peggy, but RS was gone by then.

This film also had a lot to cover, so I don't really mind it. We got 2 great confrontations between them in the movie, so I was happy.

And thats why, IMO, it was the best CB of the year and had one of the best villains of the year, Cap, while I liked it, didnt come close to either.

I wouldn't have wanted Cap to be really edgy like First Class was. I loved FC (and the edginess of the film is not why), but I also loved the tone I got from Cap, and I prefer it be more Indiana Jones than FC.

[The Overlord]

Originally Posted by marcvader

That's my view on the matter as well. If the Skull is used in a Cap sequel in the present day they can give us one that is more in line with the one we have in the comics today.

Why would Red Skull's motives change from just having a lust for power to being a malicious sadist? For movie Red Skull to be similar to the comic book Red Skull, he would have adopt the the same desire for wanton cruelty, malice and sadism that the comic book Red Skull has and I don't see why that would happen with the movie Red Skull.

For movie Red Skull to be similar to comic Red Skull his goals would shift from just wanting power to causing misery because it amuses him and he has a grudge against the whole world.

[marcvader]

Madness from what he went through. A guy gets sucked in to some interdimensional portal and view who knows where for who knows how long. It's pretty simple really. Take your pick as to the cause, all sorts of things could have happened to him.

[AVEITWITHJAMON]

Originally Posted by Spider-Fan

GG and Ock maybe can be argued, but none of the SM3 villains were as threatening as RS.

I dont know Venom, despite being poorly portrayed for the most part, came accross more sadistic and menacing in the final battle in SM3 than Skull did in his final battle. I mean, RS got the better of the fight IMO and still resorted to using a gun, he just didnt seem a threat at all.

Originally Posted by Spider-Fan

This film also had a lot to cover, so I don't really mind it. We got 2 great confrontations between them in the movie, so I was happy.

Well again, I agree about the first confrontation, I remember in the cinema being really excited to see another one between them, and being really dissapointed when it came. This didnt change on subsequent viewings unfortunately like it did with Thor. I have grown to like the final confrontation in Thor despite finding it slightly underwhelming in the cinema.

Also, this could be another case were Marvels strict 2 hour rule for its blockbusters has a detrimental effect, at the same time though, I think we got plenty of Skull in the movie, but in my view he was just poorly represented. Which makes it all the more dissapointing when you consider who was playing him.

Originally Posted by Spider-Fan

I wouldn't have wanted Cap to be really edgy like First Class was. I loved FC (and the edginess of the film is not why), but I also loved the tone I got from Cap, and I prefer it be more Indiana Jones than FC.

I loved the tone in Cap, and wouldnt have changed it, I just would have liked the Red Skull himself to be a bit edgier.

Originally Posted by marcvader

Madness from what he went through. A guy gets sucked in to some interdimensional portal and view who knows where for who knows how long. It's pretty simple really. Take your pick as to the cause, all sorts of things could have happened to him.

Yeah, i'm sure he has been through a few hardships and cruelties were ever he has been which will make him all the more sadistic hopefully.