Batman Begins Best Origin Movie ever ?

[El Payaso]

Originally Posted by Fudgie

No I haven't.

"Catwoman is not freakishly tragic in the comics. Burton just changed her. Same as he did with Penguin. He could have changed bane and probably would have if he had used him."

http://forums.superherohype.com/show...17&postcount=7

^ Yes you have.

Unless you were praising Burton changing things and I got it wrong?

[Fabian]

BB is the best and the best Batfilm!

[Godzilla2014]

I believe Batman Begins is quite possibly the best superhero origin story since Superman: The Movie, if not better than that seminal film.

[El Payaso]

Originally Posted by Godzilla2014

I believe Batman Begins is quite possibly the best superhero origin story since Superman: The Movie, if not better than that seminal film.

Superman could be sought in STM. That makes it better than BB. As a movie.

But I am currently (like in this moment) watching BB on cable and, even when I have several problems with Goyer's dialogues and the action (and Holmes and Murphy), it has the plot very well written. Yes, even better than STM.

[CConn]

Superman could be sought?

[Godzilla2014]

Originally Posted by El Payaso

Superman could be sought in STM. That makes it better than BB. As a movie.

But I am currently (like in this moment) watching BB on cable and, even when I have several problems with Goyer's dialogues and the action (and Holmes and Murphy), it has the plot very well written. Yes, even better than STM.

Originally Posted by CConn

Superman could be sought?

I share your confusion.

[The Joker]

This and X-Men First Class would be my favorite origin movies.

[El Payaso]

Originally Posted by CConn

Superman could be sought?

Hahahahah. I meant 'seen.'

[CConn]

Batman could be seen in BB.

Just not when he was actually doing something.

[Lead Cenobite]

Superman: The Movie by default, since I consider it the best superhero movie anyway.

[-Catwoman-]

Bats all the way

[SimbaRises]

Captain America doesn't belong anywhere near the rest of these films in contention for best origin.

[KalMart]

STM established portraying it in a serious cinematic fashion, and still holds up well today as a benchmark, so I think it still gets #1.

[El Payaso]

STM was released in 1978, Batman Begins in 2005. TV producer Kenneth Johnson portrayed a comic book character's origin in a completely serious way in 1977 and without campy villiains nor bad action and bad one-liners. But the Incredible Hulk wasn't released on theaters in America...

[CConn]

Yeah, I have to agree. They're kinda different mediums, but The Incredible Hulk TV series was way better written than STM, IMO.

[MessiahDecoy123]

Originally Posted by CConn

Yeah, I have to agree. They're kinda different mediums, but The Incredible Hulk TV series was way better written than STM, IMO.

lolwut?

[CConn]

It was way better written.

STM features entirely non-threatening villains, a totally implausible third act, and has ungodly campy dialogue to boot.

TIH could be damn campy too, but it's episodes generally had more threatening antagonists, and every episode always had a strong element of emotional resonance and meaning.

Hell, even as great as Chris Reeve was, Bill Bixby showed a lot more range and emotion in his performances as Bruce Banner.

[MessiahDecoy123]

Originally Posted by CConn

It was way better written.

STM features entirely non-threatening villains, a totally implausible third act, and has ungodly campy dialogue to boot.

TIH could be damn campy too, but it's episodes generally had more threatening antagonists, and every episode always had a strong element of emotional resonance and meaning.

Hell, even as great as Chris Reeve was, Bill Bixby showed a lot more range and emotion in his performances as Bruce Banner.

I'll give you Otis being campy but Luthor proves himself to be a cop killer who can figure out how to contact Superman, kill Superman, and outthink Superman who can't save both the East and West coast.

The third act is not implausible for a movie about an alien person who can shot lasers from his eyes and fly around in a cape. Is the reversing time kind of silly, yes. But it's more symbolic of what we would do to save someone we love. As pure symbolism, it works.

Superman has alot of great dialogue. The only overly campy stuff would be between Otis and Luther. You can't dismiss and entire movie based on 4 or 5 lines of dialogue.

The Smallville scenes and Krypton scenes have tremendous heart and resonance. It perfectly introduces us to Superman and both lofty birthright and hs humble upbringing. Hulk had pretty dull stories with everyone looking at their watch waiting for the Hulk to show up and run around in slow motion, throwing bad guys through doors.

Acting wise I love Bill Bixby calm contrast to the Hulk monster but it their wasnt alot of satrong acting involved. Bixby basically played himself. Reeve's was endearing as the bumbling Clark Kent and he created a great contrast himself as a powerful god with small town values. Reeve does alot with body language and subtle looks and creates a superhero performance that has yet to be matched.

Superman the Movie had tremendous heart and iconic imagery. It's still remains one of the best superhero movie ever attempted even after all these decades.

[Godzilla2014]

Originally Posted by MessiahDecoy123

I'll give you Otis being campy but Luthor proves himself to be a cop killer who can figure out how to contact Superman, kill Superman, and outthink Superman who can't save both the East and West coast.

The third act is not implausible for a movie about an alien person who can shot lasers from his eyes and fly around in a cape. Is the reversing time kind of silly, yes. But it's more symbolic of what we would do to save someone we love. As pure symbolism, it works.

Superman has alot of great dialogue. The only overly campy stuff would be between Otis and Luther. You can't dismiss and entire movie based on 4 or 5 lines of dialogue.

The Smallville scenes and Krypton scenes have tremendous heart and resonance. It perfectly introduces us to Superman and both lofty birthright and hs humble upbringing. Hulk had pretty dull stories with everyone looking at their watch waiting for the Hulk to show up and run around in slow motion, throwing bad guys through doors.

Acting wise I love Bill Bixby calm contrast to the Hulk monster but it their wasnt alot of satrong acting involved. Bixby basically played himself. Reeve's was endearing as the bumbling Clark Kent and he created a great contrast himself as a powerful god with small town values. Reeve does alot with body language and subtle looks and creates a superhero performance that has yet to be matched.

Superman the Movie had tremendous heart and iconic imagery. It's still remains one of the best superhero movie ever attempted even after all these decades.

The problem with the third act of Superman: The Movie is that it contradicts itself. Lois dies because Superman isn't fast enough to stop both missiles, yet he can fly fast enough to travel back in time? And what did Superman do differently to prevent Lois's death? He didn't stop the other missile, but the earthquake that swallows her doesn't happen. Why?

[El Payaso]

Ok, first of all I was talking about the Hulk TV pilot (the origin), not everything (although all Kenneth Johnson directed was pretty good too).

And I was talking about Johnson doing that before Donner and Nolan or whoever. And he did with 100% serious approach, 0% camp, which neither Donner nor Nolan could say.

That said, I know what STM is considered amongst superhero movies. I myself consider it one of the 3 masterpieces of the genre. But the camp is there and it's Luthor alone, Luthor-Otis and Luthor-Teschmacher. And far more than 5 lines. And I cannot care any less about it. But I have to applaud that someone on a TV show did what Johnson did before the rest and how ignored that is.

And while Reeve could do two very different characters, what Bixby did was nothing short of difficult and admirable with Banner.

[MessiahDecoy123]

Originally Posted by Godzilla2014

The problem with the third act of Superman: The Movie is that it contradicts itself. Lois dies because Superman isn't fast enough to stop both missiles, yet he can fly fast enough to travel back in time? And what did Superman do differently to prevent Lois's death? He didn't stop the other missile, but the earthquake that swallows her doesn't happen. Why?

The same reason a mother can move a car to save her child.

When Superman thought he lost Lois he let go of all restraint.

[Godzilla2014]

Originally Posted by MessiahDecoy123

The same reason a mother can move a car to save her child.

When Superman thought he lost Lois he let go of all restraint.

That only answers the first question.

What does Superman do to prevent Lois's death? He didn't stop the other missile, because the earthquakes still occurred. Yet for some reason, the crevice that she fell into never forms. It's a plot hole as massive as the San Andreas fault.

[MessiahDecoy123]

Originally Posted by Godzilla2014

That only answers the first question.

What does Superman do to prevent Lois's death? He didn't stop the other missile, because the earthquakes still occurred. Yet for some reason, the crevice that she fell into never forms. It's a plot hole as massive as the San Andreas fault.

Maybe they don't show Superman stop the missle because it would be anti-climatic after Superman just reversed the earths rotation.

I admit that's a plot hole but it's hardly massive enough for anyone to notice or care about.

[Godzilla2014]

Originally Posted by MessiahDecoy123

Maybe they don't show Superman stop the missle because it would be anti-climatic after Superman just reversed the earths rotation.

I admit that's a plot hole but it's hardly massive enough for anyone to notice or care about.

He didn't stop the missile offscreen, as the resulting quakes still happened.

[El Payaso]

Originally Posted by MessiahDecoy123

The same reason a mother can move a car to save her child.

Difference is that superhuman strenght in stressing moments was the whole theme in TIH77.

Originally Posted by MessiahDecoy123

When Superman thought he lost Lois he let go of all restraint.

I have problems thinking that Superman didn't do everything to save innocent people. He needed a personal problem to put all his effort.

Originally Posted by MessiahDecoy123

Maybe they don't show Superman stop the missle because it would be anti-climatic after Superman just reversed the earths rotation.

I admit that's a plot hole but it's hardly massive enough for anyone to notice or care about.

Care about, no. Notice, I think a lot of people noticed.