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#101 | ||
Vigilante Detective
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: The Bat-Garage
Posts: 4,785
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Though at the end of the day this is the greatest challenge to comics-critiquing; the stories are almost always unfinished before we respond to them: to this point we have no clue how this thing will turn out later in the story (i.e. whether in a meaningful way or not). Take that Catwoman short from the Year One dvd for example; it had it's fair share of graphic sexuality (though not sexual intercourse), but I don't hear anyone reeling against that. It had a purpose to it. Like Catwoman licking the holy hell out of Batman (and our young imaginations) in Batman Returns. This was pornographic for the sake of being pornographic. And badly pornographic at that. Exactly. |
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#102 | |
KIDNEYS!!!
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Glendale, AZ
Posts: 6,438
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ben: hello im ben... http://forums.superherohype.com/showthread.php?t=453945 Spoiler!!! Click to Read!:
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#103 |
Strange Attractor
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: South Hinkley, Gotham City
Posts: 3,228
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Yeah... it wasn't a necessary inclusion, it could have been portrayed differently to a more favourable result - following the tradition of suggestive tones between the characters seen in previous moments they've had, which has always been a very fitting approach.
However, I don't have a problem with this. I accept it as a unique look at their relationship based on the vision of the writer. Arguments can certainly be made that there are flaws in this vision, in the intent behind such a scene in the comics - but it still is what it is. That goes for a few of the changes made through this reboot.. I want to see how things develop. For example, I wasn't thrilled about Harley Quinn's new look (it received a pretty negative reaction from many), but I understand it and didn't hate it either - am looking forward to taking in more of the action of the character to get an overall feel of how she is portrayed. Already, after seeing a little more I am intrigued. Same goes for Catwoman, and the dynamic between her and Batman. Not necessarily for or against this, just taking it and seeing where it goes - this is what we are being given, and i'm sure certain uproars from the fans will result in a bit of a directive change with some elements along the way.
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#104 |
Vigilante Detective
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: The Bat-Garage
Posts: 4,785
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It's not that surprising really, comics with female leads are rarely given decent writers. Wonder Woman, for one, has been given great writers but they're all tripping over one thing or another... for a long time now.
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#105 | |
rings like a bell
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: in the night
Posts: 574
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Seriously, though, I'm a shameless Bruce/Selina fangirl. My husband mentioned this scene to me and I was eager to read it, but when I did... I laughed. It's almost too overt to be sensual or intriguing, and I'm not sure what it adds to the story, either. Somehow, Batman and Catwoman getting it on in costume was much hotter in my head than on the page. My reaction was amusement, and I'm assuming that wasn't the writer's intention. The Talia/Bruce page does more for me and I don't even like Talia. |
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#106 |
Side-Kick
Join Date: Aug 2000
Location: Planet Earth
Posts: 29,369
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I stumbled into this section of the Bat-forums and saw this. Now granted, I haven't read the "New 52" at all, so maybe they're better than these excerpts I discover but....it's just kind of trashy 13/14-year-old boy fantasy about these female characters. That's what I got.
The panel on the first page is bad not because there is sex. I am actually surprised so many are upset or outraged that Batman and Catwoman had sex. Their characters have danced around that for decades and it's more or less implied that it happened in Hush and probably other stories I haven't read. They just faded out a la Casablanca and all Hollywood films before the 1950s. The problem was it was badly written drivel all about getting them together. Kind of like Spidey and Black Cat post-OMD. Their costumes are on the writing is like the lowest of fan fiction and it just screams exploitative drivel. I just felt the need to comment on how bad the panel was but how intriguingly funny the reactions were as well.
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#107 |
Social Justice Warrior
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Boca Raton, FL
Posts: 1,571
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Yeah. My $0.02... I've honestly been waiting for Bruce Wayne/Batman and Selina Kyle/Catwoman to have sex for a very long time.
This is just poorly-written kid-friendly fantasy-indulgence, however. At the very least, they could have taken off their costumes. Honestly. I do have to add a quibble, though. Pornographic? Really? How do y'all define "pornographic"? I'd consider this pornographic if nothing was left to the imagination (fully nude with the full bodies shown), including any possible oral, the act(s) of penetration, and the "money shot" (whatever it might have been). That, folks, is "pornographic". This Catwoman panel barely qualifies as PG-13 sex in the modern age. And please don't forget that this is the 21st Century. Quaint imaginings of past decades that never actually existed aside, the times have changed. Embrace it or get out of the way. Or, at the very least, refine your definition of pornographic to fit more with the modern reality... Please. Last edited by NateHevens; 11-18-2011 at 10:56 PM. |
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#108 |
Newbie
Join Date: Nov 2011
Posts: 8
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I had always the impression that the modern comics are oversexualized to a certain degree considering the sexiness or rather the bustsize of most of the female super-heroes, Batman and Catwoman ending up having sex didn't surprise me at all therefore and the way it was depicted may be disputable, however, leaving their costumes on while "doing" it, is not a question of appropriateness but rather of the inner preferences and opportunities, at least in my eyes.
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#109 |
Side-Kick
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 21,565
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I see it more as a sort of "every day life stuff we don't have to see". For example, most characters presumably pay their taxes, and brush their teeth. We just don't see it. I don't think anyone doubted that Batman and Catwoman had "relations" from time to time.
Showing sex this way actually seems rather lazy. |
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#110 | ||
Deadpan Snarker
Join Date: Jun 2009
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Fan of Christopher Nolan's Batman! Quote:
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#111 | |
The Gal from Themyscira
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Tall and tanned and young and lovely
Posts: 44,093
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I wonder why we never see comic characters doing these little things like paying taxes? Do they even pay them? I bet supervillains are guilty of tax evasion.
We have seen comic characters in the bath before though. I remember seeing Mary Jane in a bubble bath, and She-Hulk was trying to shave her legs but kept breaking the razors (that's two separate incidents, not She-Hulk trying to shave MJ's legs!). We haven't seen anyone sitting on the toilet though, especially not if they're constipated and finding it a real effort to get it out. I bet that would be a real delaying problem if say Catwoman needs to rush into action but she's sitting on his toilet bowl and it's just halfway there but not fully expunged. Does she wait to finish or just leap into the fray? She would have difficulty moving about properly though if she's having these stomach cramps and something is stuck halfway up her ass on the verge of being excreted. I suppose Catwoman would give the action a miss, given her morally ambiguous nature, but not someone like Batman who would feel he has a responsibility.
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#112 |
Side-Kick
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 21,565
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Presumably Bruce does leave a few things out on his form. If they were ever to audit Wayne Enterprises there would be some curious items on the financial statement.
The bath thing just sounds like blatant fan service. But whatever sells. |
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#113 | |
Strange Attractor
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: South Hinkley, Gotham City
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#114 |
Side-Kick
Join Date: Jan 2012
Posts: 64
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I've had a lot of bad things to discuss about Catwoman's past. But the "NEW 52" really surprised me so far. I wasn't expecting Catwoman and Batman to show their relationship so explicitly. But I am satisfied. I've read too many coming of age novels, GREAT novels, about sexual liberation, whether that be concerning lesbianism, exhibitionism, transgendered, race relations in civil war eras, etc, but they never clearly go into the nitty gritty detail about sex. Even though comics are not considered part of the same class of hierarchy as traditional novels, I have always enjoyed them. And I have entirely enjoyed the Catwoman series thus far. I don't see what is wrong with clothed sex. It remained true to each characters' values and codes of conduct. Batman must not show his identity: unless this scene was in Hush. Sexual liberation doesn't necessarily mean going totally nude for the camera either, so Catwoman being clothed was just fine with me. It was tastefully done considering it is through the point of view of Catwoman, who possesses an interesting and quite vulgar tongue. This isn't pornographic. This is art. It is hard to draw a sex scene without showing body parts. The sex scene: I have been waiting for it for quite some time. But it wasn't a very powerful scene, instead, I felt like Batman and Catwoman were both pretty vulnerable to one another. Their positions are tensed and then relaxed, constraining and then restraining: which symbolizes their relationship. I liked that; their entire relationship has, and always will be on the rocks. To me, this scene felt believable if you were to look at their long history together. And i think it is important to show it in the storyline, because we finally understand how conscious Selina is about her feelings for this man who actually steals her heart. How can you tastefully say "Batman and I have knocked boots" without actually leading the conversation into it. It would have been made a mockery if Selina were to tell her fellow Sirens about that! As we have seen! There is a core you don't touch in Selina. She used to be a whore. She's seen a lot of men. But none who've mattered like the caped crusader. So when Harley tries to parallel her love for the Joker with Selina's love for Bruce, it is ludicrious. Their relationship is almost sacred. And this is just the beginning. I do think their relationship is worthy of showing, but I only wish the scene was prolonged. But if the scene had been waited on til a later time, the audience may not realize or see how much Batman does love Selina. After all, the main reason he came to the penthouse was to check up on her. A lone man and a lone woman in a scene leading to sex is natural, especially when they care for one another and have seen the things they've seen. People are not irreplaceable for Bruce.
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#115 |
Side-Kick
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: San Antonio, TX
Posts: 135
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Ugh...that was distastefully portrayed crap! I hate to say it but I'm not impressed thus far with the new 52, although I've heard Justice League is decent. I think that maybe it could be suggested that they had sex, but that scene was ridiculous. I mean I've always thought that it sucked for Batman that he wasn't noticeably getting laid, but honestly it's kind of left to the reader's imagination.
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#116 |
Side-Kick
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Philadelphia, Pennsylvania
Posts: 1,069
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if they took this pic out
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#117 |
Hathaway #1
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 22,048
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Straight after, if they did the deed (I'd much rather they didn't, keeping the tension), Catwoman would probably zip up, walk away and say "if you play your cards right, there's more where that come from" or something. Still playing hard to get.
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#118 |
Banned User
Join Date: Jan 2012
Posts: 58
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Agreed. Doesn't make sense to me either, Batman sticking around cuddling asking her if she's okay after he has pounded it out in the smush room is not in his dominating, bad boy persona at all. It's actually kind of sissy. And to be shirtless with the cowl, cape and rest of the costume on is beyond absurd. I've never been of the belief Batman should be in love with Catwoman. She just represents the dark side of himself and his kinky sexual desires. He shouldn't find his soul's counter point in her, IMO
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#119 | |
Side-Kick
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Philadelphia, Pennsylvania
Posts: 1,069
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#120 |
Banned User
Join Date: Jan 2012
Posts: 58
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Yea, I just don't picture a dark, obsessively driven, tortured guy who runs around scaring people dressed like a demonic bat and beating criminals to a bloody pulp would EVER be the type to cuddle. Not as Bruce Wayne, and certainly not IN COSTUME as his Batman persona. Catwoman herself is an empowered woman, who is the new age woman who is proud of her sexuality and doesn't have emotions attached to animalistic urges, so why would she need to be cuddled up with either? Makes nadda sense.
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#121 |
Side-Kick
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: California
Posts: 52,358
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I'm confused. Is there some sort of rule that empowered women don't want to spoon or cuddle? I'm confused.
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#122 |
Banned User
Join Date: Jan 2012
Posts: 58
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No, I just don't see Bruce Wayne or Selina Kyle as the spooning, lovey dove types.
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#123 |
Side-Kick
Join Date: Jan 2012
Posts: 64
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You know Bruce has still slept with a lot of women. But there was always something different about Catwoman. But I dont like the cuddling either. Both are real egotistical. They wouldn't give in to the other like a lovey covey couple. But in other batman sex scenes where it's implied, it does look like he is gentle. So maybe it can be possible?
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#124 |
Side-Kick
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: California
Posts: 52,358
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Why not? They're still human beings with human emotions.
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#125 |
Powerful User
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 5,593
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I don't mind sex scenes in movies if they serve a purpose but that one with Neo and Trinity just feels out of place what with the thrusting and sweat going on there.
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A few of the Marvel Superheroes are somewhat niche characters that aren't extremely versatile, thus they don't have a lot of longevity potential. For example, Namor is a water guy, Silver Surfer is a space guy, Dr. Strange is a magic guy, and so on. |
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