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Old 01-25-2012, 04:41 PM   #76
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Default Re: What did Christopher Nolan think of the other Batman movies?

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I bought Batman Begins: The Screenplay, and at the front they have a Q and A with Nolan and Goyer. Both are asked about Burton. Here’s what Nolan says:

What did you think of the preceding films, notably Tim Burton?

“I think the first film has its place in history; what Tim Burton did could certainly be considered visionary – but it didn’t speak to me personally. It’s not a great personal favorite of mine. It wasn’t my Batman. It didn’t speak to me on that level, even though I appreciated all the skill and artistry of it. It wasn’t the Batman film I’d wanted to see, in terms of a film that showed his origin story. I felt like there was a version of Batman that never got made in 1979 – ten years before. When Dick Donner made Superman in 1979, it seems odd that they didn’t do Batman in that same way – with that epic sensibility.”

You must have read Miller’s books around the time of the 1989 Batman, and already been thinking in the opposite direction to Burton…

“Yeah, it was right around that time. The thing with Burton is that he had the challenge of convincing a cinema audience that you could have a ‘cool’ Batman film. Convincing an audience who remembers that the TV show was ridiculous. And he did it, he succeeded. The way he did it was to make the entire world that he lives in – Gotham – as peculiar and extraordinary as Batman is. So he fits in with that type of hyper-real, hyper-stylized universe on its own terms. That then convinced everybody that you could have a ‘cool’ Batman film. So that isn’t a hurdle that we have to get over with this film and, because of that, we are more free to treat the world around him as more ordinary and so allow his extraordinary nature to stand out. For me it was very important that the audience watching the film would feel for people in Gotham – Batman is an extraordinary a figure for them as he is for us in the audience.

Goyer had this to say:

How did you relate to the portrayal of batman in the films compared to the comic books?

Well, I liked the way he was portrayed in the comic books much more than he was in the films. I liked the first of the previous films [Tim Burton’s Batman 1989]. But I felt the later films became more akin to the TV show and were somewhat out of synch with the way that batman was currently being depicted in the comic books.
I always love reading what others have to say about different interpretations of Batman. I recently saw what Batman comic book legend, Denny O'Neill, said about Nolan's movies:

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O’Neil wrote the novelization for both “Batman Begins” and “The Dark Knight,” and he loves what Nolan has done with the Caped Crusader on the big screen. “Both [films] were terrific and I’m glad to be associated with them,” said O’Neil, who also co-created Azrael, a character that helped Marvel Comics Editor in Chief shoot to superstardom as an illustrator. “Nolan is creating his own version of the mythos and it’s as valid as any that preceded it by any criteria, and more valid in terms of his own art form.”
http://www.comicbookresources.com/?p...ticle&id=18114

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Old 01-25-2012, 05:30 PM   #77
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Default Re: What did Christopher Nolan think of the other Batman movies?

Well, while Nolan may be a matter of personal taste, no one can argue with Denny. I dare you to try.

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Old 01-25-2012, 05:43 PM   #78
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Default Re: What did Christopher Nolan think of the other Batman movies?

Sorry, did I read that right? Did Nolan just state that Burton's first Batman wasn't epic? WTF! It was more 'epic' than Batman Begins...The clash between the Joker and Batman, the creators of each other's respective identities was more epic for a start.

Burton and Keaton have both been very gracious with respect to Nolan's Batman films. It's a pity posh-boy couldn't reciprocate that respect.

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Old 01-25-2012, 05:50 PM   #79
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Default Re: What did Christopher Nolan think of the other Batman movies?

Im not sure whether I disagree with Nolan or did he worded it wrong. I strongly disagree that people of Gotham are as bizarre as Batman or the city. I see regular people filling the streets, at least in B89 (Ill give him Max Shreck). The city's design itself is indeed a character on its own, reflecting the evil and darkness of its citizens. But not the people.

After so many similar comments, it seems Nolan's simply a hardcore Superman movie fan rather than Batman fan (he said himself he wasnt into Batman comics that much but liked the character), so his vision was always that of redoing STM with batman in it. That would match with his comments about "his" Batman and his dream Batman 79 which never happened. I dont think a movie that doesnt show origins isnt valid at all, Vader or Phantom of the Opera didnt need them. They just needed a spot in the movie to briefly recall their backstory

Either way, for me Begins is far superior to S78, and outside of them bnoth showing an entire life of the character in its structure, I dont see other similarities, which for me personally is a good thing

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Old 01-25-2012, 05:55 PM   #80
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Default Re: What did Christopher Nolan think of the other Batman movies?

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Im not sure whether I disagree with Nolan or did he worded it wrong.
I transcribed everything you see up there word for word.

Edit: Oh, you're referring to Nolan?

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Old 01-25-2012, 06:03 PM   #81
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Default Re: What did Christopher Nolan think of the other Batman movies?

Yeah, I meant Nolan

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Old 01-25-2012, 08:50 PM   #82
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Default Re: What did Christopher Nolan think of the other Batman movies?

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When Dick Donner made Superman in 1979, it seems odd that they didn’t do Batman in that same way – with that epic sensibility.”
Yeah, because Batman and Superman are so much alike it's only natural they should be approached the same way? And I'm sorry, Nolan, but B89 was epic.

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So that isn’t a hurdle that we have to get over with this film and, because of that, we are more free to treat the world around him as more ordinary and so allow his extraordinary nature to stand out. For me it was very important that the audience watching the film would feel for people in Gotham – Batman is an extraordinary a figure for them as he is for us in the audience.
It can be done both ways.

But my impression is that Batman was an extraordinary figure in B89 and he should have been more of that in Nolan's movies, visually-wise.

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Old 01-25-2012, 09:01 PM   #83
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Default Re: What did Christopher Nolan think of the other Batman movies?

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Well, while Nolan may be a matter of personal taste, no one can argue with Denny. I dare you to try.
Even if I could I wouldn't, because I agree with every word he said

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Old 01-26-2012, 12:22 AM   #84
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Default Re: What did Christopher Nolan think of the other Batman movies?

As far as Denny, I agree as well, He states both that Nolan CREATED how OWN universe and take, and that its great. And that I agree with. No "Nolan is the only faithful one" BS, no "Nolan is the ONLY legitimate Batman moviemaker" bs, just stating how it is, at least for me

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Old 01-26-2012, 05:07 AM   #85
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Default Re: What did Christopher Nolan think of the other Batman movies?

That's the thing though... Denny is a writer and editor and he's retired so he has no allegiance to DC anymore which frees him up to tell it like it is.

There may also be a bit of ego on the man's part as well as his SIGNATURE creation was used in Nolan's first film.

I also think your preference for a certain Bat-film will have a lot to do with what era of Batman comics you love and respect the most. If you love the 70's & 80's O'neil/Wein/Conway/Moench etc. stories, you may enjoy Batman 89 or Batman Forever more.

If you love the 90's Batman comics you may love Returns more and so on!

And god help you if you love the 50's and 60's Batman because then the Clooney travesty might be to your taste!

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Old 01-26-2012, 06:11 AM   #86
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Default Re: What did Christopher Nolan think of the other Batman movies?

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I also think your preference for a certain Bat-film will have a lot to do with what era of Batman comics you love and respect the most. If you love the 70's & 80's O'neil/Wein/Conway/Moench etc. stories, you may enjoy Batman 89 or Batman Forever more.
I could see that. I grew up on those books as well as the ones by Grant, Wolfman, Englehart etc. and I have a great appreciation for those movies I suppose because of that.

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If you love the 90's Batman comics you may love Returns more and so on!
If we're talking Moench/Jones era stuff here then yeah. It captures the surreal tone of those books pretty well.

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And god help you if you love the 50's and 60's Batman because then the Clooney travesty might be to your taste!
I love the silver age Batman and still hate the **** out of that movie for the most part. Though the Wayne manor scenes are all pretty much excellent. The Batman stuff is way too overdone for it's own good and very phoned in.

None of the charm and genuine wit of say the TV series starring West for instance creeps into that movie at any time during those moments. Again I give them credit on the whole Bruce and Alfred's relationship as surrogate father and son stuff. As well as the "Dick wants to be his own man and conflicts with Bruce" thing as it's always been a cool angle to me in the comics but that's about it.

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Old 01-26-2012, 09:57 AM   #87
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Default Re: What did Christopher Nolan think of the other Batman movies?

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I think the closest to being a match with Kilmer is Infantino's 60s Batman.

Btw, heres an example from top of my head from the 70s. Batman was pretty much like Bale is in Nolan's movies since the 70s. This is from 1971's Brave and the Bold #93
The stuff you are referencing here is mostly from Denny O'Neil. He was the writer who was into that (as someone put it) "thuganomics" stuff - the (unnecessary) violence like knocking out Talia with a bare fist or using lethal force against animals and the "hard boiled detective" talk. Although Denny O'Neil's Batman was really just playing the role of the hard-ass, it's not like he was shown to be truly like that.

Writers like Robbins, Haney, Wein and especially David V. Reed rarely let Batman do this stuff and more often went the "plot" thing, you know, letting Batman actually figuring out something by detective work instead of intimidation.

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Old 01-26-2012, 10:35 AM   #88
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Default Re: What did Christopher Nolan think of the other Batman movies?

I think its fair to say he did both (like Bale), but the point here was that Batman was intimidating in those days as well and still had a lot of ager in him and a fury that could make any man crumble. For me this hidden anger that he sometimes cant fully control is the core of the character. Well, at least in most of his iterations

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Old 01-26-2012, 11:21 AM   #89
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Default Re: What did Christopher Nolan think of the other Batman movies?

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I think its fair to say he did both (like Bale), but the point here was that Batman was intimidating in those days as well and still had a lot of ager in him and a fury that could make any man crumble. For me this hidden anger that he sometimes cant fully control is the core of the character. Well, at least in most of his iterations
But in this pic it isn't "hidden anger", he is rather acting like that to intimidate the thug.

Of course, some writers approached Batman like you wrote, Len Wein and also Mike W. Barr made him rather passionate and angry. Frank Miller for example already wrote the opposite: A very cold and calculating crime-fighting machine, especially in "Year One".

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Old 01-26-2012, 11:36 AM   #90
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Default Re: What did Christopher Nolan think of the other Batman movies?

What I meant by hidden is that he keeps it inside and sometimes it comes out or he intentionally lets it out, boiling like water, a pure rage. And sometimes he lets himself go too much. This is very much in vein with what Bale portrayed

As far as Year One he was a rookie there

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Old 01-26-2012, 07:07 PM   #91
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Default Re: What did Christopher Nolan think of the other Batman movies?

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The word "GROUNDED" has become popular to the Nolanites hasn't it. What is grounded about Nolan's approach?

The idea that Nolan's Batman is somehow something closer to reality is laughable.

Every other aspect of these films is pretty realistic, but Batman, his armored suit and his toys are not
What I mean by grounded is that, even things we naturally expect to see in a Batman film, are justified within the story. Even the Batsuit is given a reason to be other than, "it's a Batman film", which really lends credibility to the whole thing within a heightened reality.

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Old 03-22-2013, 12:25 PM   #92
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Default Re: What did Christopher Nolan think of the other Batman movies?

Updated with new quotes frm Nolan and Burton- http://gothamalleys.blogspot.com/201...hers-work.html

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Old 03-22-2013, 01:45 PM   #93
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Default Re: What did Christopher Nolan think of the other Batman movies?

What's the new Burton one?

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Old 03-22-2013, 03:04 PM   #94
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Default Re: What did Christopher Nolan think of the other Batman movies?

Where he says his version is lighthearted in comparison to Nolan, I didnt have that one before

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Old 03-22-2013, 08:02 PM   #95
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Default Re: What did Christopher Nolan think of the other Batman movies?

LOL BR is far from "lighthearted" even compare to Nolan's trilogy.

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Old 05-28-2013, 02:06 PM   #96
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Default Re: What did Christopher Nolan think of the other Batman movies?

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Where he says his version is lighthearted in comparison to Nolan, I didnt have that one before
The tone, sure. But Burton went as far as he could considering in was the 80's.

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Old 08-10-2014, 03:59 PM   #97
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Default Re: What did Christopher Nolan think of the other Batman movies?

And did you know Burton and Schumacher loved Nolan's movies?

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