Anne Hathaway as Selina Kyle/Catwoman XXI

[Batman jr.]

Inception is damn good television, no more no less.

But I thought this is the Anne thread?

[Fabian]

[Batman jr.]

Originally Posted by Fabian

She always puts a smile on my face.

[The Morningstar]

Originally Posted by Excelsior.

Inception isn't a character piece. It's a heist film. Nolan himself admitted heist films are emotionally vacant. Which is why he shoehorned in Leo's character arc, elaborating even further after his casting. It felt entirely artificial by the way. You could tell instantly when the narrative will come to a halt and Leo's arc will resume. Nolan should've taken out Cobb's arc entirely and elaborated on Murphy's even more, because his was the only naturally emotional story of the film. The catharsis of Leo's character had no impact on me whereas Murphy's catharsis was the most powerful moment in the film.

What makes Nolan the authority on heist films? Dog Day Afternoon wasn't emotionally vacant. Heat wasn't. Even supporting characters like Kilmer and Sizemore's had emotional depth to them. I could list countless others but i don't need to, the idea that heist films are inherently emotionally vacant is so stupid it shouldn't need any explaining or debunking.

Although I did think Eames and Arthur were awesome.

[Travesty]

Originally Posted by The Morningstar

What makes Nolan the authority on heist films? Dog Day Afternoon wasn't emotionally vacant. Heat wasn't. Even supporting characters like Kilmer and Sizemore's had emotional depth to them. I could list countless others but i don't need to, the idea that heist films are inherently emotionally vacant is so stupid it shouldn't need any explaining or debunking.

Dude, Nolan said so, which makes it 100% true.

[Nave 'Torment']

Thing is most of the characters in Inception revolve around types because of the Jungian subtext in it. I'm not trying to sound all high-brow here but there's a reason why 'Ariadne' acts as Cobb's beackon of hope through the 'maze'(s), why 'Mal' becomes such an overwhelming manifestation of HIS unconsciousness, and why Saito grows old and eventually needs to be 'saved'. I dunno why even fans of Nolan try to downplay the film, it's really among Nolan's best works so far. Granted, the emotional resonances needed much more work, but that doesn't mean that it made the movie any less enjoyable. There was some effort being made to give Cobb some sort of a one-dimensional catharsis, among all the shoe-horned 'complexity' of the piece, that simple story stands out. It reminds me of how the most complex 'feelings' (what Fischer thinks he goes through) is nothing but deception for the more simple things we feel: Cobb wanting to go back to his children and struggling to move on from his wife's death; Fischer wanting his father's blessing.

As for female characterisation, I don't expect Selina Kyle to be front-and-center and the driving soul of TDKR. That's still, and always will be, Bruce Wayne. She's a supporting character, or an antagonist at best. And for Batman's last adventure, I wouldn't want it any other way. A part of me hopes she resembles Mal at the beginning and Ariadne near the end, that is, if we MUST revert to analogies.

[The Morningstar]

Originally Posted by Travesty

Dude, Nolan said so, which makes it 100% true.

Oh ****, how could i forget?!

Originally Posted by Nave 'Torment'

Thing is most of the characters in Inception revolve around types because of the Jungian subtext in it. I'm not trying to sound all high-brow here but there's a reason why 'Ariadne' acts as Cobb's beackon of hope through the 'maze'(s), why 'Mal' becomes such an overwhelming manifestation of HIS unconsciousness, and why Saito grows old and eventually needs to be 'saved'. I dunno why even fans of Nolan try to downplay the film, it's really among Nolan's best works so far. Granted, the emotional resonances needed much more work, but that doesn't mean that it made the movie any less enjoyable. There was some effort being made to give Cobb some sort of a one-dimensional catharsis, among all the shoe-horned 'complexity' of the piece, that simple story stands out. It reminds me of how the most complex 'feelings' (what Fischer thinks he goes through) is nothing but deception for the more simple things we feel: Cobb wanting to go back to his children and struggling to move on from his wife's death; Fischer wanting his father's blessing.

As for female characterisation, I don't expect Selina Kyle to be front-and-center and the driving soul of TDKR. That's still, and always will be, Bruce Wayne. She's a supporting character, or an antagonist at best. And for Batman's last adventure, I wouldn't want it any other way. A part of me hopes she resembles Mal at the beginning and Ariadne near the end, that is, if we MUST revert to analogies.

Ariadne wasn't anything other than a plot device and cypher for the audience so Cobb and co could explain everything to. She asks questions/we ask questions. They give her answers/they give us answers.

[The_Raganork]

Originally Posted by The Morningstar

Oh ****, how could i forget?!

But it's Nolan's film. So whatever Nolan has said about Heist films in the past will probably effect how he makes them.

so it's not about Nolan being right or wrong but rather him being true to his belief about those type of films.

So trying play off the satirical: "teh Nolan is always right"/Nolanite charge here is ill-placed.

Ariadne wasn't anything other than a plot device and cypher for the audience so Cobb and co could explain everything to. She asks questions/we ask questions. They give her answers/they give us answers.

I don't disagree with you totally just when you say she wasn't anything else.

I've assume you've seen Inception and anyone who has seen it can't really deny that she's also his moral compass. She's constantly telling him what he can and cannot do any why. While he explains how they have this, seemingly, infinite power in this new world, she's there explaining to him why he can't abuse that power.

As much as I don't like the "character" she serves more of a purpose than just being an exposition spewer. The revelations at the end, him going to save Saito, shooting and releasing Mal, those are all the "right" things to do and her character was the only reason why Cobb came to those conclusions at the end.

Again, I didn't like the character and she felt shoe horned in but I can't deny that she has a purpose.

This is the same thing said about Rachel Dawes' character which is TOTALLY fallacious.

[The Morningstar]

It seemed that by the quote Nolan was saying heist films in general are emotionally vacant. Maybe I misread it.

And yea, I agree that Ariadne did also serve as Cobb's voice of reason/moral compass too. But overall I felt she was a flat character that was mainly a cypher for the audience.

Again, Inception is a good film, I enjoy watching it. But I don't think it's Nolan's best. I guess i'd put The Prestige right at the top, it's a masterpiece. Followed by Memento. Then Inception.

[The_Raganork]

Originally Posted by The Morningstar

It seemed that by the quote Nolan was saying heist films in general are emotionally vacant. Maybe I misread it.

The claim: Inception was emotionally vacant [flaw]

The proof: Eames, Arthur and Ariadne

The counter: Inception was supposed to be that way [non-flaw]

The proof: Nolan believes this about Heist films; therefore his Heist films will be that way.

It has nothing to do with Nolan being an authority on all Heist films but rather him knowing what he wanted from his heist film, Inception, and delivering that.

And yea, I agree that Ariadne did also serve as Cobb's voice of reason/moral compass too. But overall I felt she was a flat character that was mainly a cypher for the audience.

Again, Inception is a good film, I enjoy watching it. But I don't think it's Nolan's best. I guess i'd put The Prestige right at the top, it's a masterpiece. Followed by Memento. Then Inception.

Essentially; agreed.

[The Morningstar]

Well if Nolan thinks heist films in general are inherently emotionally vacant... he's wrong. How he decides to make his films is obviously his choice, and good luck to him.

[The_Raganork]

Originally Posted by The Morningstar

Well if Nolan thinks heist films in general are inherently emotionally vacant... he's wrong. How he decides to make his films is obviously his choice, and good luck to him.

I don't agree or disagree. It seems the point of issue here is the word "Generally" which would include "more often than not"

I'm not an authority on Heist films.

But Inception fits his idea of Heist film and pulls of the heist with conviction.

[Fabian]

Originally Posted by The Morningstar

Well if Nolan thinks heist films in general are inherently emotionally vacant... he's wrong. How he decides to make his films is obviously his choice, and good luck to him.

You really hate Nolan's work arent ya?

[The Morningstar]

Not at all. But the idea that heist films are emotionally vacant is again, wrong. There always has to be some level of emotion, otherwise, why would anyone care if the robber gets the money or the cop stops him for example?

[KRIM]

Originally Posted by The Morningstar

Not at all. But the idea that heist films are emotionally vacant is again, wrong. There always has to be some level of emotion, otherwise, why would anyone care if the robber gets the money or the cop stops him for example?

That's to be understood, however I think he was just generalizing matters for the sake of simplicity. Compared to other subgenres, heist films are almost always inherently emotionally lacking. It is the nature of the story.

[Fabian]

Originally Posted by The Morningstar

Not at all. But the idea that heist films are emotionally vacant is again, wrong. There always has to be some level of emotion, otherwise, why would anyone care if the robber gets the money or the cop stops him for example?

You find the emotions in Inception vacant?

Inception contains more emotion then a Transformers movie
Yeah i see Inception and Insomnia as Nolan's weakest movies to be honest.

It are the most empty ones.

[Batman jr.]

Originally Posted by The Morningstar

Not at all. But the idea that heist films are emotionally vacant is again, wrong. There always has to be some level of emotion, otherwise, why would anyone care if the robber gets the money or the cop stops him for example?

Will you please stop ruining this thread? There are plenty of others that are about his movies alone.

Jebus.

[Hunter Rider]

I think this thread could do with getting back to discussing Selina/Catwoman.

[The_Raganork]

There's so little about her, It's hard to go on about the character anymore. I don't want to go on into how I dislike the costume again cause I'm made that abundantly clear.

I wonder when/if we'll see Catwoman on the Batpod in motion. I overheard somewhere that they're divided with whether to show footage of that because some think its so publicized that people know it happens but don't know what it looks like so it's better to leave that for the film, while others thing it'll add interest to the character.


Either way imagining how it's going to look with Pfister's photography is a joy in and of itself.

[Batman jr.]

Originally Posted by Raganork8

There's so little about her, It's hard to go on about the character anymore. I don't want to go on into how I dislike the costume again cause I'm made that abundantly clear.

I wonder when/if we'll see Catwoman on the Batpod in motion. I overheard somewhere that they're divided with whether to show footage of that because some think its so publicized that people know it happens but don't know what it looks like so it's better to leave that for the film, while others thing it'll add interest to the character.


Either way imagining how it's going to look with Pfister's photography is a joy in and of itself.

We understand, but this is purely about her & the character.

[kvz5]

Not really much to talk about unfortunately. I wonder if her (as Catwoman) relationship with Bats will be more idol worship rather than romantic?

[KRIM]

That would be a tragic waste. I'd rather they go all-out on her villainous and mischievous side, if they are to forgo her romantic pursuits.

[munchie64]

Originally Posted by kvz5

Not really much to talk about unfortunately. I wonder if her (as Catwoman) relationship with Bats will be more idol worship rather than romantic?

From what little we know, it seems to end in being at least slightly romantic (maybe just really good friends?). In set footage they hug rather lovingly.

[kvz5]

The hug is actually what made me raise that question. I remember reading some comments that for some people it looked more like a kid hugging her idol/hero rather than something romantic. Granted it's just a 3 second blurry vid with no context...

[munchie64]

Yeah I suppose. It would be a nice story point that she hates Bruce Wayne, but idolises Batman.