So what DIDN'T we like?

[CConn]

Originally Posted by Chris M

That's Hysterical!!

Fury: "You've ben asleep for 70 years."
Cap: "Who won the war?"
Fury gives his best Samuel L Jackson stare. "You a bein' a smart-ass mutha-*****er? Your Commanding Officer's a n*gga and you wanna know if Adolf's in charge??"

...yeah, that's not funny.

What is funny, is in The Ultimates when Cap refuses to believe General Fury because "the highest ranking black man in the US army is a Captain, and I know him!"

[Chris M]

Originally Posted by CConn

...yeah, that's not funny.

What is funny, is in The Ultimates when Cap refuses to believe General Fury because "the highest ranking black man in the US army is a Captain, and I know him!"

Sorry I could't match your champagne wit (like incest jokes). No need to be a jerk.

[CConn]

Apology accepted.

[Spider-Fan]

I think that is enough bickering guys

[CConn]

You'll get no arguments from me.

[GoldGoblin]

What I didn't like was:

1.Was how after he got the serum,he was doing plays,what the crap?

2.And they didn't really show how he has the super serum in his body,like Blonski did in the Hulk movie.Same goes for Red Skull.

[DyeLorean]

To be honest, most of my complaints are about length of scenes, pacing. I wish we had seen a little bit more about the era, more Bucky, more of that "a superhero in a war" scenario. I still think it's a perfectly made entertaining movie.

[cherokeesam]

Originally Posted by GoldGoblin

What I didn't like was:

1.Was how after he got the serum,he was doing plays,what the crap?

It was perfectly understandable from the script, if you'd been paying attention. Steve was supposed to be one of a whole army of Super Soldiers, but the HYDRA assassin destroyed the serum, leaving Cap as the only one. The general resented the hell out of Steve Rogers as a puny runt who had only weaseled his way into the army under Dr. Erskine's wing, so he kicked him to the curb. The US gubmint then swooped in to snatch him up and use him as a propaganda tool in USO shows, a literal poster boy for the war effort.

[Shadowlord X]

I actually thought it quite brilliant because CAPTAIN AMERICA was created as a propaganda symbol and in the script they actually made him into one. Incorporating that and the CAP #1 comic were truly clever scripting IMO.

[roach]

1) Bucky's death lacked punch
2) Red Skull was just sort of there

[combocaz]

red skulls rubber mask.

[GoldGoblin]

The fight with Captain America and Red Skull wasn't even a fight.

[<(o_o)>]

Not seeing what actually happened to Captain America after he crashed, like was he knocked unconscious & simply froze before he could recover, but with his enhanced strength & matabolism looks like he could have been a little more resilient to the cold.

[cherokeesam]

Originally Posted by <(o_o)>

Not seeing what actually happened to Captain America after he crashed, like was he knocked unconscious & simply froze before he could recover, but with his enhanced strength & matabolism looks like he could have been a little more resilient to the cold.

I don't think it's ever been fully discussed in the comics before, but I'd like the film to point out that the Super Serum is what kept Steve's body alive during the deep freeze. You gotta think it had to be instant shock when he hit the icy water, though, that sent him into a coma....otherwise, if he was still conscious when he crashed, why didn't he try to crawl out of the plane, look for help, try to rig up a radio, do *something* to try to survive and let the world know he was still alive?

[Shadowlord X]

I doubt he was conscious after the impact; he would have been knocked out and slipped into suspended animation.

[roach]

Originally Posted by Shadowlord X

I doubt he was conscious after the impact; he would have been knocked out and slipped into suspended animation.

we know that because as comic fans we know thats pretty much the origin...people unfamiliar with the comics wouldn't know that

[cherokeesam]

Originally Posted by roach

we know that because as comic fans we know thats pretty much the origin...people unfamiliar with the comics wouldn't know that

And people unfamiliar with the comics will be asking for an explanation. "Dude, he crashed the plane and all that....how the hell did he survive in an iceberg for 70 years...?!?!?"

Since the ending to CA:TFA didn't offer general audiences that explanation, I'd hope that Avengers would do the honors.

[DrCosmic]

I saw it again last night and I didn't like it a whole lot better than my opening night viewing. The short version:

1) It takes a full hour before we see Cap in wartime action. That's too long for an origin story. This is a character that has been wanting to fight their whole life, and willing to lie to do it. The minute they got on an army base, he should have finagled his way into the theatre of war, done something awesome, though inexperienced, gotten caught and, because he did something so great, been made Captain. Perhaps they could have already given him his USO uniform so he'd have that star on it effect we love. It's not a complicated origin, it can be done in 40 minutes.

2) This had the chance to take advantage of WWII's epicness and it instead did a science fiction movie. The tech looked, to say the least, out of place. Perhaps use some WWII props and spend some of that money on practical setpieces or at least improving the green screen. Hyrda is not as scary as the Nazis. Why have them usurp the greatest real life villains of all time? That, I think, was a waste. It made the bad guys seem less evil, even they hate the Nazis. The tech made them seem less serious, in a way, and certainly took away a lot of the effect of the period by using weapons advanced by even today's standards. It'd be one thing if there were ONE cannon powered by the cube that could wipe out the eastern seaboard or something. Alternately, they could have had Zola design more steampunk designs, things that would not still be advanced by our standards.

3) Howard Stark as a Tony Stark prototype wasn't particularly funny to me, and I think, without him there, Peggy's role could have been beefed up a bit, and she be made actually useful instead of just a glorified secretary. Her as a pilot, organizing the tech department or as a psychoanalyst for the special division could have been very good, more time to develop what turned out to be a very skinny romantic plot. A better tie in to the current storyline would be Cap saving a young Nick Fury in a wartime situation, perhaps a blood transfusion explaining his longevity.

4) I also think the suit was a bit too high tech, but that just comes with the territory on superhero movies. I mean, did some teenager make the Spider-Man costume in his bedroom? Really?

5) With the hour origin dressed down to 35 minutes instead of an hour, you have now an hour plus for a war movie, with a romance in the background all building to a superhero movie climax. You can have a truly epic montage, you can have soldiers rescued, recruited, killed in action, missing in action then found later, all that good stuff.

6) Red Skull was not an intimidating villain, again as a Nazi I think he would have been better, and I think he should have whooped Captain America's butt in the first meeting instead of being sent running away with his tail between his legs.

[roach]

I enjoyed this movie and Thor but the more I think about the movies the more I begin to not enjoy them.

[DacoitONE]

Why make the red skull look and sound like such a bad ass when all he ever does is turn tail and run?

[roach]

People complained about IM2 being too much of an Avengers movie but I felt like this movie suffered from the connections.
The death of Bucky is as important to Cap as the death of Uncle Ben or Bruce's parents...to me that was a missed opportunity.

[Webhead38]

My biggest problem was Steve's explanation to nose dive the plane into
the ice. If he could control the craft enough to do that, why not take Peggy's advice and wait for help? He could have turned the craft around and flown it back out over the ocean where he could have maintained a position over the water until help arrived. It just seemed like suicide to me. From my perspective, the circumstances leading to the ship hitting the ice should have been beyond Cap's control. Damaged navigation equipment would have explained these circumstances much better than a personal choice to simply "die". That didn't make any sense to me, especially since doing away with the Red Skull didn't end the war with Germany and the Nazis. Why sacrifice yourself when your country could have still needed you?

[roach]

yeah I didn't think of that

[Optimus_Prime_]

Originally Posted by CConn

Considering the propaganda that existed in the 40s regarding what would happen if the Nazis won, if you're standing in Times Square speaking English to a black man 70 years later, I'm pretty sure you'd know who had won already.

I guess it didn't bother me that a soldiers first question is about the outcome of a war. Seventy years is enough time that anything could happen or change.

My least favorite part essentially was that I felt Red Skull was divorced from the Nazis far too quickly. I would have rather the Nazis been fully complicit in his activities even if they weren't fully aware of them.

[CConn]

I definitely agree there. I assume, to make the movie more kid-friendly, they pretty much removed Nazism from almost the entire film.

Which sucks. Cap should've been like Raiders of the Lost Ark; Nazis everywhere.