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Old 01-29-2012, 10:48 AM   #276
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Default Re: So what DIDN'T we like?

but in making it kid-friendly they softened Hydra...they can't be that bad of they hate the Nazis too

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Old 01-29-2012, 12:03 PM   #277
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I definitely agree there. I assume, to make the movie more kid-friendly, they pretty much removed Nazism from almost the entire film.

Which sucks. Cap should've been like Raiders of the Lost Ark; Nazis everywhere.
Yeah, and like RotLA you could've glazed over all the, ahem, Jew killing and just focused on them as generic bad guys Americans aren't supposed to like.

I actually think it was less kid friendly and more to make HYDRA it's own thing. The anti-semtics aren't really what HYDRA will be about if they return in future films. They aren't really NAZIs. I agree with what you said though. Should have been NAZIs everywhere.

Look at X-Men: First Class being all ballsy with Nazis.

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Old 01-29-2012, 12:46 PM   #278
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Default Re: So what DIDN'T we like?

To be honest they didn't need Hydra in this movie. They could have been Nazis that Cap fought and just like the comic origin...lost the war and formed up after the war.

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Old 01-29-2012, 01:28 PM   #279
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Default Re: So what DIDN'T we like?

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Yeah, and like RotLA you could've glazed over all the, ahem, Jew killing and just focused on them as generic bad guys Americans aren't supposed to like.

I actually think it was less kid friendly and more to make HYDRA it's own thing. The anti-semtics aren't really what HYDRA will be about if they return in future films. They aren't really NAZIs. I agree with what you said though. Should have been NAZIs everywhere.

Look at X-Men: First Class being all ballsy with Nazis.
I didn't have a problem with HYDRA being a separate, larger entity than the Nazis - especially by the end of the film when Red Skull makes us intentions clear - but at the beginning of it, the Nazis definitely should've been more prominent within HYDRA.

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Old 01-29-2012, 04:22 PM   #280
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Default Re: So what DIDN'T we like?

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My biggest problem was Steve's explanation to nose dive the plane into
the ice. If he could control the craft enough to do that, why not take Peggy's advice and wait for help? He could have turned the craft around and flown it back out over the ocean where he could have maintained a position over the water until help arrived. It just seemed like suicide to me. From my perspective, the circumstances leading to the ship hitting the ice should have been beyond Cap's control. Damaged navigation equipment would have explained these circumstances much better than a personal choice to simply "die". That didn't make any sense to me, especially since doing away with the Red Skull didn't end the war with Germany and the Nazis. Why sacrifice yourself when your country could have still needed you?
I like the climax from that A:EMH episode where it is Bucky who sacrifices himself and kicks Cap off the rocket because he knows the world needs Cap, and it is Bucky who dies instead. However, Bucky inadvertently provides the scenario where Cap is frozen in time by kicking him off the rocket into the icy Arctic Ocean.

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Old 01-30-2012, 01:48 PM   #281
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I didn't have a problem with HYDRA being a separate, larger entity than the Nazis - especially by the end of the film when Red Skull makes us intentions clear - but at the beginning of it, the Nazis definitely should've been more prominent within HYDRA.
Really to me it would have been better if the Nazi's had shown up, approved completely of his plans, walked away, and then have Zola find out he's secretly planning on destroying Germany in the process. I rather liked that, in his heart of hearts, Red Skull wanted undesputed power, even over the Nazis. After that it really wouldn't have matter if HYDRA were treated as it's own thing because we'd know the Nazis liked them and were blissfully unaware of their plans.

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Old 01-31-2012, 06:47 AM   #282
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some complaints -

1. Hydra looked too much high tech for a WW 2 villain, it would have been acceptable if they had only One a weapon powered by the cosmic cube but they had a bunch of them, that made it look like GI Joe force.

2. I was hoping for a good fight scene between the Red Skull and Cap. America, which never happened.

3. Not much war story was covered, and Nazis did not make an appearance.

4. Far too much screen time was given to Steve Rogers and Peggy Carter scenes.

5. Howling commandos were given very little to do.

6. The end scene where cap. crashes the plane into Arctic, was it even necessary ? He could have used a parachute to jump off once he knew that plane would crash into desolate remote arctic and wait for assistance.

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Old 01-31-2012, 09:39 PM   #283
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Default Re: So what DIDN'T we like?

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Really to me it would have been better if the Nazi's had shown up, approved completely of his plans, walked away, and then have Zola find out he's secretly planning on destroying Germany in the process. I rather liked that, in his heart of hearts, Red Skull wanted undesputed power, even over the Nazis. After that it really wouldn't have matter if HYDRA were treated as it's own thing because we'd know the Nazis liked them and were blissfully unaware of their plans.
That still wouldn't have been enough Nazi involvement, for my tastes.

Really, as much as I enjoy Cap, it really was indicative of the movies big fail; it played things soft. As good as Evans was, and has phenomenal as the art direction and the directing was, the script itself was a bit of a softball.

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Old 02-01-2012, 10:29 AM   #284
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The Nazi's plain and simple didn't have enoguh involvement in CA. In the comics Red Skull is a Nazi.

He barely had any ties to HYDRA.

While the interpretation of Skull, HYDRA and the NAZIs was good in CA: TFA, it could have been better.

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Old 02-01-2012, 10:34 AM   #285
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some complaints -

1. Hydra looked too much high tech for a WW 2 villain, it would have been acceptable if they had only One a weapon powered by the cosmic cube but they had a bunch of them, that made it look like GI Joe force.

2. I was hoping for a good fight scene between the Red Skull and Cap. America, which never happened.

3. Not much war story was covered, and Nazis did not make an appearance.

4. Far too much screen time was given to Steve Rogers and Peggy Carter scenes.

5. Howling commandos were given very little to do.

6. The end scene where cap. crashes the plane into Arctic, was it even necessary ? He could have used a parachute to jump off once he knew that plane would crash into desolate remote arctic and wait for assistance.
Agreed. However, 1) I feel Peggy and Cap didn't have enough screentime together and that their love felt forced rather than genuine. Like Thor when you think of it.

2) The plane was on autopilot. If he abandoned it it would have continued on and destroyed the cities. He had to crash it.

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Old 02-01-2012, 11:49 AM   #286
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Agreed. However, 1) I feel Peggy and Cap didn't have enough screentime together and that their love felt forced rather than genuine. Like Thor when you think of it.

2) The plane was on autopilot. If he abandoned it it would have continued on and destroyed the cities. He had to crash it.
1) Agree on both counts

2) If he had enough control to make the plane go down he could have made it go sideways and put it in a holding pattern

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Old 02-02-2012, 08:09 PM   #287
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He has basically no engines on the plane so I don't he could turn it in any way plus it had many holes in it and it was on auto pilot. They don't really give an explanation as why he can't turn it but there are plenty of factors there for the audience to just go with it. I felt that the Peggy/Cap relationship is so far the best in any comic book movie and that is all due to the 2 actors. Its definitely not the best written one thats for sure but the 2 just had phenomenal chemistry and there was something about their relationship to where you wanted to see them get together and be together which is why the ending so much heart wrenching.

What didn't I like about this movie? first thing that comes to mind the atrocious blue/green screen. It's obvious they put all their cg money into skinny Steve because the cg everywhere else in the movie especially the backgrounds is just awful.

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Old 02-03-2012, 03:58 PM   #288
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Default Re: So what DIDN'T we like?

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some complaints -


5. Howling commandos were given very little to do.

6. The end scene where cap. crashes the plane into Arctic, was it even necessary ? He could have used a parachute to jump off once he knew that plane would crash into desolate remote arctic and wait for assistance.
i agree with the Howling Commandos part. the reason why Cap never had a parachute was because he was supposed to be frozen in the ice for about 70 years, hence the very beginning of the movie when SHIELD discovers the wreckage in the arctic. if Cap had a parachute, he wouldnt be alive for The Avengers; if anything, he'd probably be really old and grey.

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Old 02-12-2012, 12:50 AM   #289
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Default Re: So what DIDN'T we like?

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What didn't I like about this movie? first thing that comes to mind the atrocious blue/green screen. It's obvious they put all their cg money into skinny Steve because the cg everywhere else in the movie especially the backgrounds is just awful.
Care to give some examples? I can't really think of a scene where I thought, "wow, that background looks PHONY."

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Old 02-12-2012, 09:46 AM   #290
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i agree with the Howling Commandos part. the reason why Cap never had a parachute was because he was supposed to be frozen in the ice for about 70 years, hence the very beginning of the movie when SHIELD discovers the wreckage in the arctic. if Cap had a parachute, he wouldnt be alive for The Avengers; if anything, he'd probably be really old and grey.
and that is what we call bad storytelling.
"Lets come up with some contrived situation because Cap has to be frozen and join the Avengers"

but IMO the whole movie was rushed through just to get to the present.

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Old 02-13-2012, 09:18 AM   #291
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Default Re: So what DIDN'T we like?

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He has basically no engines on the plane so I don't he could turn it in any way plus it had many holes in it and it was on auto pilot. They don't really give an explanation as why he can't turn it but there are plenty of factors there for the audience to just go with it. I felt that the Peggy/Cap relationship is so far the best in any comic book movie and that is all due to the 2 actors. Its definitely not the best written one thats for sure but the 2 just had phenomenal chemistry and there was something about their relationship to where you wanted to see them get together and be together which is why the ending so much heart wrenching.

What didn't I like about this movie? first thing that comes to mind the atrocious blue/green screen. It's obvious they put all their cg money into skinny Steve because the cg everywhere else in the movie especially the backgrounds is just awful.

I have to agree, some of the backgrounds looked REALLY fake, I especially noticed this when watching it on the blu-ray. At the start especially when the guy is running to the church were the cube is looked particularly bad.

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Old 02-14-2012, 12:29 PM   #292
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One thing I noticed is that skinny Steve varied in his size from scene to scene, he is shown to be little shorter ( maybe one and half inches.) than Peggy Carter but in the Taxi scene where he is sitting with her he looks a lot shorter, like he suddenly shrank further.

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Old 02-17-2012, 08:55 PM   #293
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Default Re: So what DIDN'T we like?

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I guess it didn't bother me that a soldiers first question is about the outcome of a war. Seventy years is enough time that anything could happen or change.

My least favorite part essentially was that I felt Red Skull was divorced from the Nazis far too quickly. I would have rather the Nazis been fully complicit in his activities even if they weren't fully aware of them.
Captain America got frozen in ice in the Spring of 1945. The outcome of the war was no longer in doubt long before then and depending on whether they skip a few days before the VE Day scenes Hitler may have already been dead before Cap got frozen.

Besides, we don't really get to see him react to much in the present beyond the immediate problem of where he was. I had no problem with that.

My biggest problem with the film was Bucky. He seemed more of a plot device than an actual character. I learned more about Bucky in the five minute PTS in the Ultimate Avengers cartoon movie than I did in this film. It rendered his death meaningless and there will be less of an impact down the line if he ends up becoming Winter Soldier in one of the sequels.

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Old 02-17-2012, 09:02 PM   #294
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Default Re: So what DIDN'T we like?

i agree with this...Bucky's 'death' should have been a very deep and emotional moment

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Old 02-20-2012, 10:47 AM   #295
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I was watching CA yesterday and the main thing I would switch about the movie, besides the obvious Bucky relationship, is the montage. I feel with some editing, a couple battlefield scenes thrown in, some rescues, and toss in an old news reel feel to show a passage of time would have shown the general audience how significant Cap was during the war. That part of the movie edited, plus throw in a few extra scenes (10 mins) and we are talking about how this CBM is one of the best in the genre. The movie was just missing that all out storm the beach of Normandy scene. I also feel Bucky should have been with him on that final mission, but that's a whole nother gripe.

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Old 02-22-2012, 12:45 PM   #296
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Bucky's death was impactful. Peggy tells Steve Bucky gave his life for him ("his choice") cause he was worth it. When Cap sacrifices himself toward the end, he paraphrases saying it was HIS choice. Bucky's sacrifice helped give Steve the strength he needed in that moment, and planted that seed for later. It was important for him to die earlier.

As for a storming scene. Would have been nice, I agree. But, for a couple secs of footage, that is millions more and likely Cap would have gone over budget. Hence why that prob never was shot.

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Old 02-22-2012, 08:18 PM   #297
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I should clarify. It didn't have any impact on me (not the other characters) because he wasn't really given any time to become an established character. By comparison, I felt that Erskine's death was a far bigger deal because we got to know and care about him before he got killed. Bucky was just a background character. There was nothing to differentiate him from any of the other Howling Commandos, none of whom were really handled that well. Their equivalents in Thor (Sif & The Warriors Three) had much more personality.

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Old 02-22-2012, 08:22 PM   #298
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Default Re: So what DIDN'T we like?

Bucky's death should have been as impactful or more as Rachel's in TDK

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Old 02-22-2012, 08:46 PM   #299
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Overall, I liked it and recommend it. But yeah, I got a few nitpicks.

Too derivitive?
I know it's the nature of the comic book origin movie, but for the first time I felt like maybe I'd see enough superhero movies. I'd seen a lot of these beats before.

1.Weak guy gets strong (Spider-Man, Hulk)
2.Gains power in experiment gone wrong (Spider-Man, Hulk)
3. Kindly mentor dies (Iron Man, Spider-Man)
4.Action set peice avenging mentors' death (Spider-Man, Iron Man)
5.Intial crappy costume (Spider-Man, Iron Man)
6.Originally using powers for wrong reason (Spider-Man)
7.Hero wakes up in a different world and starts kicking ass (Thor)
8.Hero doesn't get girl at the end (Hulk, Spider-Man, Thor)


I also thought it was a bit contrived how he became the Army recruitment mascot. Here the goverment just spent untold millions on this super soilder serum, it actually works, people are willing to kill and die for it and then they just dismiss the guy? Why wouldn't they at least send him into battle? You paid for him, you might as well use him. And it would make a lot more sense for the army to hire an actor for these recruitment drives rather than cast this secret government test project, no?

And at times, I thought the backgrounds were a little too fakey. I never thought I was looking at the 1940's but a greenscreen of the 1940's. I think more practical sets, with a real weight and feel to them would have given the Times Square ending even more impact. I'm sure they used plently of real sets but there were times I couldn't help but picture the actors in front of a green screen on a sound stage.

Overall though, great job. Make Mine Marvel. What say you?
2. Cap's experiment didn't go wrong, that was meant to happen the whole time and Spider-Man accidentally got bit by the spider, it wasn't an experiment that went wrong.
7. Where does Cap wake up and start kicking butt?
8. I guess technically Cap, Thor, & Hulk didn't get the girl, but then again, they all kissed and new of each other's love, the only thing different about Spider-Man is he didn't let MJ know about his love for her.

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Old 02-23-2012, 02:19 AM   #300
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Default Re: So what DIDN'T we like?

Red Skull's make-up. Cool but too fake-looking.

Other than that CA was a pretty decent movie.

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