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Old 01-31-2012, 06:26 PM   #51
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Default Re: Matthew Vaughn Helming X-Men: First Class Sequel

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The dogtags could be the explanation.

In X2 when Xavier sees Magneto In his prison Magneto says to Xavier you haven't told him about his past.Xavier says he put him on the path saying Logan's mind Is still fragil.

A case can be made both of them had prior knowledge of Wolverine.So If they want to go In that direction they are hints In Bryan Singer's X-Men films to build on.
Bingo.

Remember, the first X-Men film takes place in the not too distant future. Since the film was released in 2000, we'll just say 2005 or whatever. In the first film, Xavier mentioned to Wolverine that it's been 15 years since he lost his memory. So, in theory, Logan lost his memory around or past 1985. First Class takes place in 1962, so that explains how Xavier and Magneto hint at knowledge of who and what Logan is in the first and second films. Logan hadn't lost his memory yet when we get his cameo in First Class.

If the sequel to First Class takes place in the 70's, the Logan character can still be in continuity with that's been established in First Class, X-Men, and X2.

They just need to be careful with introducing Logan into the fold and possibly coming into contact with Jean, Storm, and Scott. Frankly, those three shouldn't even show up in sequel.

If they play their cards right, Logan can be more than cameo....

 
Old 01-31-2012, 07:22 PM   #52
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Default Re: Matthew Vaughn Helming X-Men: First Class Sequel

Based on what both Matthew Vaughn and Bryan Singer has said this film could be set In 1960's.Vaughn has mentioned wanting the film to beguin with Magneto responable
for JFK's assassination.This could set up a film with Magneto and Brotherhood beguin terrorist attacks aginst US Government with the Civil Right movement or vietnam war
protests as backdrop.

You can have Logan as CIA or Special Military ops sent after Magneto who ends up crossing paths with the first X-Men team.He would be preadamanutum.Vaughn and Singer have already shown they have no concern with Ignoring The Last Stand.That would be applied because Beast has no memory of Wolverine before their meeting In The Last Stand.

Cyclops,STorm,and Jean Grey will not be In this film.Now If you say X-Men and X2 take place In 1990's.In a 1970's set third film you could get away with teenage
versions of them showing up.

People are wanting too many new characters to show up.You have a great opportunity for a X-Men VS Brotherhood film.The third film should be when a new enemy causes them to work together.It would be Ideal to have Sinster as Villain for third film when they Introduce Teenage Cyclops.

Logan could be major supporting character In this film.And having him In film could fit with X-Men and X2.

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Old 01-31-2012, 07:24 PM   #53
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Default Re: Matthew Vaughn Helming X-Men: First Class Sequel

No Wolverine or time travel characters please. Work with the characters we already have and established.

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Old 01-31-2012, 07:53 PM   #54
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Default Re: Matthew Vaughn Helming X-Men: First Class Sequel

I'm surprised anyone is even suggesting having Wolverine be in this movie. I love him and Hugh Jackman, but enough is enough.

As much as I would feel bad for getting rid of Banshee and Havok, I think that would be the right thing to do. They could just be considered mutants that helped Xavier for this one time but moved on with their lives. Scott's presence could be connected to Alex in a simple explanation (Alex recommended the school to Scott) and then we could have the team that many actually want to see... Cyclops, Jean, Storm, and Beast. If FOX wants their megahit, they know they have to do this... not that huge grosses are that important to me, but they'd be nice.

I know the original trilogy is supposed to be in the "not too distant future", but that doesn't mean anything in terms of what year. There are no concrete references to anything that can "date" the film (besides that awful scene in X2 with the N'SYNC song). Haha also luckily the costume designer for X1 and X2 decided to put everyone in what she considered timeless (RE: ugliest possible) outfits, so there aren't any fashion trends either!


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Old 01-31-2012, 08:06 PM   #55
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Default Re: Matthew Vaughn Helming X-Men: First Class Sequel

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he doesn't know how to use the characters properly. you could see that in FC most characters were under developed and had little dialog, much like the first 2 x-movies. also he doesn't know how to address and show the humans discriminating mutants problem. all we saw in his movies was a small group of people demonstrating against mutants. nothing major. singer doesn't know how to use secondary characters and doesn't have a big vision needed to make big blockbusters.
Even though one of the most powerful scenes in X2 was Bobby getting rejected by his own parents and his own brother turning him in to the cops for no reason whatsover.

Or that the entire plot of the first movie was comparing mutant registration to the Holocaust.

What movies have you been watching?

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Old 01-31-2012, 10:12 PM   #56
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Default Re: Matthew Vaughn Helming X-Men: First Class Sequel

He just bashes anything that has Bryan Singer Involved.Since first Class brought the series back to X-Men and X2 style and quality.

I stronly disagree with X2.I thought they handled multicharacters and discramation well.The Last Stand didn't use multicharacters well.X2 did.

And not everything that Is done In Comics will work In films.And as I keep telling people plenty of other film makers have changed things for films but they rarely get attacked like Singer does.

And some are still bashing First Class since they want Fox to turn over X-Men to Marvel.Yeah a major studio will just hand over a successfull film series over to a rival studio.

I will take X-Men,X2,and First Class over all marvel Studio films.

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Old 01-31-2012, 11:28 PM   #57
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Default Re: Matthew Vaughn Helming X-Men: First Class Sequel

I'd say develop the cast of characters from First Class and keep the new characters down to a minimum is what I'd like to see.

Also a nice B plot would be to see how Moira copes with losing several months worth of memory.

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Old 02-01-2012, 03:08 AM   #58
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Default Re: Matthew Vaughn Helming X-Men: First Class Sequel

Awesome! Bring on The Sentinels!

I can't wait to see

Spoiler!!! Click to Read!:
Magneto assassinate JFK

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Old 02-01-2012, 07:25 AM   #59
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I reeeeeally can't see the movie opening with the assassination. Magneto just isn't that evil yet. Yes, he turned the missiles on the ship--because THEY attacked first. I don't know much about American History but to my knowledge JFK did nothing that could have prompted Magneto's hand, and in the films even as an older gent we have never seen him outright kill a high-profile person without reason or plot. Actually I'm trying to remember ANY moment in the trilogy where he killed anyone who wasn't a guard or something. I know he's more ruthless in the comics, but we are not talking about the comics here, we're talking about the films.

JFK's assassination would require backplot. Did he learn about mutants and start a mutant registration? Doubt it, as this would have been brought up in the first movie when they were trying to do the same thing. What I've read is that Magneto is pissed because JFK "takes the credit for Cuba/preventing WWIII". That just does NOT seem like a big enough reason for Erik to kill someone, even a human, and this kind of rationale would completely sully his character. He hunted Nazi's with every reason. Putting a bullet through someone's head for "unfairly taking credit" seems a bit extreme and childish. There is nothing calculated about it.

If anything, I can see the JFK thing happening at the END of the movie. I can see Magneto slowly becoming darker, a foe coming in that he can't beat alone so he and Charles team up and do a great job and it's like old times, and just when it seems like things could go back to the way they were, he pulls a "sorry Charles" and goes off and assassinates JFK (with whatever sound Magneto-logic they have had time to develop throughout the movie). That would REALLY put a rift between him and Charles and might be the thing that makes Charles finally realize that they are enemies.

Also, please leave Wolverine, Scott, Jean, and Storm out of this film. I'm sick of them and the Bstory characters from FC could use more development anyway.

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Old 02-01-2012, 08:02 AM   #60
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Default Re: Matthew Vaughn Helming X-Men: First Class Sequel

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I reeeeeally can't see the movie opening with the assassination. Magneto just isn't that evil yet. Yes, he turned the missiles on the ship--because THEY attacked first. I don't know much about American History but to my knowledge JFK did nothing that could have prompted Magneto's hand, and in the films even as an older gent we have never seen him outright kill a high-profile person without reason or plot. Actually I'm trying to remember ANY moment in the trilogy where he killed anyone who wasn't a guard or something. I know he's more ruthless in the comics, but we are not talking about the comics here, we're talking about the films.

JFK's assassination would require backplot. Did he learn about mutants and start a mutant registration? Doubt it, as this would have been brought up in the first movie when they were trying to do the same thing. What I've read is that Magneto is pissed because JFK "takes the credit for Cuba/preventing WWIII". That just does NOT seem like a big enough reason for Erik to kill someone, even a human, and this kind of rationale would completely sully his character. He hunted Nazi's with every reason. Putting a bullet through someone's head for "unfairly taking credit" seems a bit extreme and childish. There is nothing calculated about it.

If anything, I can see the JFK thing happening at the END of the movie. I can see Magneto slowly becoming darker, a foe coming in that he can't beat alone so he and Charles team up and do a great job and it's like old times, and just when it seems like things could go back to the way they were, he pulls a "sorry Charles" and goes off and assassinates JFK (with whatever sound Magneto-logic they have had time to develop throughout the movie). That would REALLY put a rift between him and Charles and might be the thing that makes Charles finally realize that they are enemies.

Also, please leave Wolverine, Scott, Jean, and Storm out of this film. I'm sick of them and the Bstory characters from FC could use more development anyway
.

Couldnt agree more with this, I definately want them to team up to defeat a bigger threat, and the assasination of JFK would make more sense at the end after he has done something. Who knows, they may introduce a storyline were JFK was turturing mutants behind the scene's or something for being communist spies, they could come up with anything.

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Old 02-01-2012, 12:17 PM   #61
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Default Re: Matthew Vaughn Helming X-Men: First Class Sequel

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Even though one of the most powerful scenes in X2 was Bobby getting rejected by his own parents and his own brother turning him in to the cops for no reason whatsover.

Or that the entire plot of the first movie was comparing mutant registration to the Holocaust.

What movies have you been watching?
to me, it didnt come over like there is huge hate and discrimination.
and Bobby scene was more lame than serious. the idea behind it was good, but execution was not good at all. having bobby freeze a cup of tea to freak out his family is not that strong.
when i look at the 90's animated series, there are episodes that in 30 minutes show more than a whole x-movie. the episode beauty and the beast portrays much better the mutant problem.

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Old 02-01-2012, 12:33 PM   #62
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Default Re: Matthew Vaughn Helming X-Men: First Class Sequel

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to me, it didnt come over like there is huge hate and discrimination.
and Bobby scene was more lame than serious. the idea behind it was good, but execution was not good at all. having bobby freeze a cup of tea to freak out his family is not that strong.
when i look at the 90's animated series, there are episodes that in 30 minutes show more than a whole x-movie. the episode beauty and the beast portrays much better the mutant problem.
OK, making a parallel connection to the Holocaust didn't come over as clear enough example of mutant bias as "huge hate and discrmination"?

The Bobby scene was completely serious. He told his parents he was a mutant...so his brother called the cops on him. The cops showed up and shot Logan in the head for no reason other than being there. Then Bobby's family completely rejected him and sided with the dip**** brother.

All you took out that was the frozen tea moment? Oy.

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Old 02-01-2012, 01:14 PM   #63
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Default Re: Matthew Vaughn Helming X-Men: First Class Sequel

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No Wolverine
yeah, please NO

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Old 02-01-2012, 01:38 PM   #64
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Default Re: Matthew Vaughn Helming X-Men: First Class Sequel

I don't want them to throw In tons of new characters.This was problem with both the Last Stand and Wolverine.If Xavier and Magneto team up again It should be In third film.
First Class did good job of showing Magneto's turn and formation of Brotherhood.With Magneto attacking the CIA to break Emma Frost out signals he has become a Villain.
And who should they team up against?Sinster should not be used till Cyclops Is Introduced.I don't see Sentinles In First Class series.They may want to save them In case X4 Is ever made.That pretty much leaves Apocalypse and Shadow King.

Matthew Vaughn has said his Idea of Magneto killing JFK Is because he took all credit for solving the CUban Missile Crisis and mutants were not mentioned.Plus Vaughn mentioned only bringing In 1 new character who goes toe to toe with Magneto now that Xavier Is crippled.

I see them defently bringing back

Xavier
Magneto
Mystique
Beast
Havok
Banshee
Emma Frost
Azarel(Vaughn likes to use Jason fleming In all his films)

Moira,Riptide,Azarel are question marks.Remember Tyler Mane,Ray Park,Alan Cumming,and Kelly Hu were signed for more films and weren't brought back after X-Men,or X2.Noiw If you drop Riptide and Angel you could get away with having villain both Xavier and Magneto go up against as long as you don't need a bunch serving him.

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Old 02-01-2012, 01:48 PM   #65
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Default Re: Matthew Vaughn Helming X-Men: First Class Sequel

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OK, making a parallel connection to the Holocaust didn't come over as clear enough example of mutant bias as "huge hate and discrmination"?

The Bobby scene was completely serious. He told his parents he was a mutant...so his brother called the cops on him. The cops showed up and shot Logan in the head for no reason other than being there. Then Bobby's family completely rejected him and sided with the dip**** brother.

All you took out that was the frozen tea moment? Oy.
i understand what you are saying, but to me the setup of the scene was not good. it could have been executed better. better dialogue.
and making a connection to holocaust, yeah its an example, but thats only done in words. you don't see mutants on the street beaten or hunted.
in x-2 when stryker wanted to raid x-mansion the president said to him that last thing he wants to see is a body of a mutant kid on the news. but why would that be bad if there is so much hate for mutants. a dead mutant on the news shouldn't mean that much in an atmosphere of hate. this is what should have been done. a scene where you see a mutant on the street, maybe helping someone and then once people see he is a mutant, they beat him and leave him to die, and nobody even looks around to help him. not even the person that he had helped.
something like that. then you could really see the public opinion on mutants.
sure they make a comparison to the holocaust, but it is nowhere near that. there are no mutants caught and brought to concentration camps. in the end its just words.

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Old 02-01-2012, 03:39 PM   #66
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Default Re: Matthew Vaughn Helming X-Men: First Class Sequel

Regarding the JFK assassination by Magneto, I originally didn't know what to think about it because other than taking credit for the Cuban Missile event, I don't see how that leads to Magneto wanting to kill him; especially at the beginning of the movie. However I would hate if that was the cliffhanger of the movie because I hate when movies do that.
However, I think introducing Gyrich and maybe even Valerie Cooper with Sentinel production throughout the movie would be a good driving force for Magneto. And yes, I did have this as a plot in my X-4 script, but as that's never gonna happen, I hope it or something similar is used in FC2.

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Old 02-01-2012, 06:27 PM   #67
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Yes, the Sentinels would great for the sequel. I think itís the humans move now. They have to react to what happened in First Class. An army of Sentinels killing mutants would be certainly cause Magneto and Professor X to team up and push Magneto further to dark side.


Gryrich should not have any mutants working for him.

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Old 02-01-2012, 06:29 PM   #68
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Default Re: Matthew Vaughn Helming X-Men: First Class Sequel

That's why I suggested Valerie Cooper. She can be the opposite of Moira in FC, working with the government, not having such a bleeding heart for mutants.

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Old 02-01-2012, 09:20 PM   #69
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Default Re: Matthew Vaughn Helming X-Men: First Class Sequel

The whole "Magneto kills JFK" thing could have been something Vaughn came up with on the spot at the time of the interview, I wouldn't take it all that seriously, personally.

And definitely, please don't bring Wolverine into the sequel.

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Old 02-01-2012, 09:52 PM   #70
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Default Re: Matthew Vaughn Helming X-Men: First Class Sequel

I want to see tall lumbering sentinels with the huge aztec heads and 50 different ways to kill mutants.

They should be used to supress rebellion from mutants who don't want to be used for war.

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Old 02-01-2012, 10:03 PM   #71
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Default Re: Matthew Vaughn Helming X-Men: First Class Sequel

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i understand what you are saying, but to me the setup of the scene was not good. it could have been executed better. better dialogue.
and making a connection to holocaust, yeah its an example, but thats only done in words. you don't see mutants on the street beaten or hunted.
in x-2 when stryker wanted to raid x-mansion the president said to him that last thing he wants to see is a body of a mutant kid on the news. but why would that be bad if there is so much hate for mutants. a dead mutant on the news shouldn't mean that much in an atmosphere of hate. this is what should have been done. a scene where you see a mutant on the street, maybe helping someone and then once people see he is a mutant, they beat him and leave him to die, and nobody even looks around to help him. not even the person that he had helped.
something like that. then you could really see the public opinion on mutants.
sure they make a comparison to the holocaust, but it is nowhere near that. there are no mutants caught and brought to concentration camps. in the end its just words.
If that were the case then I don't see why Professor X or the X-Men would bother to help humanity. There has to be some goodness in people that's clouded by ignorance and fear or else Charles's mission is pointless.

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Old 02-01-2012, 10:04 PM   #72
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I'd like to see different Sentinel models. First the a little bigger than human beings models, transitioning into the bigger models proving more of a threat.

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Old 02-01-2012, 10:59 PM   #73
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Old 02-02-2012, 02:57 AM   #74
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i understand what you are saying, but to me the setup of the scene was not good. it could have been executed better. better dialogue.
and making a connection to holocaust, yeah its an example, but thats only done in words. you don't see mutants on the street beaten or hunted.
in x-2 when stryker wanted to raid x-mansion the president said to him that last thing he wants to see is a body of a mutant kid on the news. but why would that be bad if there is so much hate for mutants. a dead mutant on the news shouldn't mean that much in an atmosphere of hate. this is what should have been done. a scene where you see a mutant on the street, maybe helping someone and then once people see he is a mutant, they beat him and leave him to die, and nobody even looks around to help him. not even the person that he had helped.
something like that. then you could really see the public opinion on mutants.
sure they make a comparison to the holocaust, but it is nowhere near that. there are no mutants caught and brought to concentration camps. in the end its just words.
Words can be pretty evil trust me. There's no such thing as just words.

As to the above comment in bold, it would be similar to if someone showed the body of a recently shot muslim man. Some people would say "serves them right" but most people would be shocked and sympathetic. I believe that's what the President means. He doesn't want mutants to be looked at with sympathy.

It's all about representing bigotry in a modern sense which is far more subtle to what you were talking about.

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Old 02-02-2012, 08:49 AM   #75
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Hell yeah! Fingers crossed.


Even though they talked about it and, according to James, "Matthew came up with an interesting plot for the character", I'm still a bit cautious. There's nothing I want more than a good storyline dealing with Charles and all the things he had to go through after he was shot at that beach, but it's still supposed to be an "action/fantasy" movie, and it worries me that the producers will think that giving the main arc to a disabled character will "slow things down" or something . So they have to be very creative with that script. Focusing on Magneto and his merry band of mutants is much easier for anyone writing a X-Men script, I suppose.
You know, just a tiny element of the script could be something as simple as the story focusing on how some characters will think that Charles' disability makes him more of a liability to the team when facing the escalated physical threat of Magneto's Brotherhood. I'd be interested in seeing how Charles manages that with extending the reach of his powers. Whereas when he was able to walk he was more physically involved, like when he tackled Magneto to stop the missiles instead of using his mutant gifts, in his paralyzed state he will have to rely on his mind even more to be able to be an asset to the team. I'm sure some flashbacks to the cold relationship with his parents and how he came to possess the property (I'm assuming they died tragically somehow?) should be touched upon.

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Yes, the Sentinels would great for the sequel. I think it’s the humans move now. They have to react to what happened in First Class. An army of Sentinels killing mutants would be certainly cause Magneto and Professor X to team up and push Magneto further to dark side.


Gryrich should not have any mutants working for him.
I have no problem with there being Sentinels in the movies. Heck, I wanted to see them in the previous, contemporary times X-Men movies. But I've stated this numerous times, even back in the 90's that they should not be the Godzilla sized Sentinels, but the ones from the original X-Men comic run that were between 10 - 15 feet tall. I would like to see Genosha and the rounding up of mutants as well. This would give Magneto and Charles the impetus to set aside their philosophical differences and ally together to fight a common threat, with the extermination of automatonic menaces not being too hard a moral choice for Charles to undertake.

*edit* You know, I was cleaning out my ferret's cage (His name is Loki and yes he is a little mischief maker.) and I was thinking of the whole Januarygate issue you guys were talking about. Yes, I do think of the oddest things while doing menial chores if you're wondering. It might not come as a huge surprise to some of you, but I was thinking that January Jones might not be revealing the father of her baby because she's protecting him as such a revelation would be devastating on a personal level. I have my theories, and I don't think Vaughn is the father of her baby, but I'm not divulging them because mainly, it's really not our problem. Decisions were made and cannot be undone but that's not something that we need to concern ourselves with. If I knew the man on a personal basis all I'd want is a yes or no answer and leave it at that. The past is the past and cannot be undone.

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