Our director: Joss Whedon!

[flickchick85]

Originally Posted by JeetKuneDo

Because of Firefly, I just watched Buffy for the first time ever. Like...just finished the last episode of the series about an hour ago. Loved it by the end. I liked how it got stronger as the series went on. (That first season was "meh") I obviously loved it since I watched the whole friggin' thing in a month or two. By the end I was a big fan. Still feeling sad that one of my favorite characters,

Spoiler!!! Click to Read!:

Anya, was killed in the last episode.

She made me laugh so many times....plus I had a crush on her because of her quirky personality and because of those shorts she wore with the roller skates in that one episode.

Glad to hear you loved it! I think Buffy surprises a lot of skeptical people who are willing to take a chance and dive in (I know it surprised me). And yeah, Anya's death was heartbreaking. So of course, this is the part where I ask the inevitable question: what about Angel?

[Doomed_hero]

joss is my one of my favorite writers from any media. Just love how he blends characters and gives them belivable story arcs that allow them to grow. I always hear a lot of the cheesy thing that he is way to cheesy and he cant do serious. While there is a lot of his work that i can point to as otherwise, I mainly go with "A hole in the world" from angel season five which was one of the most heartrwrenching things i have witnessed. anyone who watches that and still say he cant handle heavy plots doesnt know what there talking about

[mclay18]

Originally Posted by warhorse78

I can see why Wonder Woman never took off on the big screen. Very, very few female lead movies make it big, and I haven't heard too many superhero women to actually succeed.

It is hard, but if The Avengers is really, really big (which is likely at this point), maybe WB will get off their butts and court Whedon to do WW his way. It's a long shot, but stranger things have happened.

And Cobie Smulders as Diana? It's an unexpected choice (a Canadian playing an ancient Greek warrior princess), but if Joss had her in mind... she could blow people's minds. They won't look at her as Robin from How I Met Your Mother anymore...

But I'm getting ahead of myself. I'm envisioning all the offers Joss will get after The Avengers' opening weekend... Universal on hands and knees begging Whedon to come and direct a Serenity sequel or get Goners off the ground.

[DoomsdayApex]

Originally Posted by mclay18

It is hard, but if The Avengers is really, really big (which is likely at this point), maybe WB will get off their butts and court Whedon to do WW his way. It's a long shot, but stranger things have happened.

And Cobie Smulders as Diana? It's an unexpected choice (a Canadian playing an ancient Greek warrior princess), but if Joss had her in mind... she could blow people's minds. They won't look at her as Robin from How I Met Your Mother anymore...

But I'm getting ahead of myself. I'm envisioning all the offers Joss will get after The Avengers' opening weekend... Universal on hands and knees begging Whedon to come and direct a Serenity sequel or get Goners off the ground.

As a fan of the character, HELL NO. Although I appreciate Whedon's views and passion for woman characters, I don't think his vision is the right one for Wonder Woman.

[flickchick85]

Originally Posted by DoomsdayApex

As a fan of the character, HELL NO. Although I appreciate Whedon's views and passion for woman characters, I don't think his vision is the right one for Wonder Woman.

I'm not sure his vision is out there, tbh. I saw that concept art you were talking about, and it wasn't concept art at all, it was Shawna Trpcic's pitch pieces. Yes, she was usually his go-to costume designer for his shows, but that was her essentially brainstorming for him as a favor. The only thing in her ideas that I hated anyway was the trenchcoat. While I'd prefer WW to have a skirt like one of her drawings, the pants she drew didn't look horrible to me.

I've been positively scouring the 'net searching for evidence that HIS Wonder Woman script has ever leaked, and all I've found are rumblings of an industry leak of the studio draft commissioned by the WB directly AFTER Whedon left the project, and several articles as recent as mid-2011 stating specifically that his draft hasn't leaked.

And I do like the interview snippets Joss has shared about his version as well (reminded me of Thor), so I'm not convinced like you that it would have been a disaster.

[DoomsdayApex]

Hold on, I think I know someone on this site who might be able to confirm the legitimacy of the leak or not.

Give me about a week, depending on when the person logs back on.

[flickchick85]

Originally Posted by DoomsdayApex

Hold on, I think I know someone on this site who might be able to confirm the legitimacy of the leak or not.

Give me about a week, depending on when the person logs back on.

Just don't forget to report back! I'm genuinely curious about this! Every geek site (of the Whedon-ite or cinephile variety) I visit with a Joss' Wonder Woman story contains people lamenting the marvel that somehow his script never leaked. This is the Internet Age, dammit. This type of thing is unacceptable!

[captainrogers]

Originally Posted by flickchick85

Just don't forget to report back! I'm genuinely curious about this! Every geek site (of the Whedon-ite or cinephile variety) I visit with a Joss' Wonder Woman story contains people lamenting the marvel that somehow his script never leaked. This is the Internet Age, dammit. This type of thing is unacceptable!

Also curious.

[mclay18]

I don't think Whedon wrote a draft for WW, just a couple of treatments. But if you can provide evidence for a script that DID get leaked, feel free to PM me.

[DoomsdayApex]

Well do, ladies and gents. I, myself, am quite interested in seeing whether or not the script I downloaded is legitimate.

[JeetKuneDo]

Originally Posted by flickchick85

Glad to hear you loved it! I think Buffy surprises a lot of skeptical people who are willing to take a chance and dive in (I know it surprised me). And yeah, Anya's death was heartbreaking. So of course, this is the part where I ask the inevitable question: what about Angel?

3rd time I've been asked about Angel today.

To be honest...I wasn't that fond of the character on Buffy and was kinda glad he left. (runs) None of the "crossover" type episodes seemed to need the Angel counterparts. (credit the writers on that one....comic books usually force you to buy the other mags)

Originally Posted by Doomed_hero

joss is my one of my favorite writers from any media. Just love how he blends characters and gives them belivable story arcs that allow them to grow. I always hear a lot of the cheesy thing that he is way to cheesy and he cant do serious. While there is a lot of his work that i can point to as otherwise, I mainly go with "A hole in the world" from angel season five which was one of the most heartrwrenching things i have witnessed. anyone who watches that and still say he cant handle heavy plots doesnt know what there talking about

Buffy might shock them too. I know I was blown away when Buffy came home after a light-hearted episode to find her mother dead on the couch. Geller's acting was incredible in that scene by the way.

[flickchick85]

Originally Posted by JeetKuneDo

3rd time I've been asked about Angel today.

To be honest...I wasn't that fond of the character on Buffy and was kinda glad he left. (runs) None of the "crossover" type episodes seemed to need the Angel counterparts. (credit the writers on that one....comic books usually force you to buy the other mags)

The thing with Angel though, is that a lot of people (like me) didn't like him UNTIL he got his own show. I cannot stress this enough: Angel became a MUCH more interesting character once he was free of Buffy. Partially because on her show, we were only seeing him through her eyes. Once we start seeing the world through his perspective, he becomes a totally different character while remaining faithful to what the previous show established. It can even change the way you see him on Buffy. And his "team" on his show was amazing. While Buffy and Angel are both great shows in the same universe, they each had different strengths: Angel's strengths were its arcs. The arcs in that show easily surpassed Buffy's. In fact, Angel contains my absolute favorite character arc of the entire Buffy-verse: that of Wesley Wyndam-Price. That's right, the dorky watcher who took over when the Council fired Giles and then disappeared after S3. If you don't watch Angel, you'll never get to see how ridiculously awesome he became! And that would be truly tragic.

It also contains my 2nd favorite character arc in the entire Buffy-verse. And 3rd. But both of those are bigger spoilers than I'd want to give away. Most of the Buffy characters who crossed over to Angel ended up being waaay better on that show than they were on Buffy.

Hell, half the fandom seems to prefer Angel to Buffy. I personally prefer Buffy, but that's because I'm a sucker for a good coming-of-age story. Angel is a different type of story entirely. Thematically it can be very Batman-esque (redemption, trying to save his city's souls while repairing his own, etc). I think superhero fans tend to prefer it because it feels more like a superhero show.

Well that's my pitch, lol. I urge you to give it a shot, and just note that, like Buffy, it needed a season to find its footing. Like that show, the first season is quite "meh" (your word!), but not AS "meh" as Buffy's. The arcs don't kick in 'til season 2. But it's SO worth the trip. It will very likely surprise you just as much as Buffy did.

[Smashlilman]

Originally Posted by flickchick85

The thing with Angel though, is that a lot of people (like me) didn't like him UNTIL he got his own show. I cannot stress this enough: Angel became a MUCH more interesting character once he was free of Buffy. Partially because on her show, we were only seeing him through her eyes. Once we start seeing the world through his perspective, he becomes a totally different character while remaining faithful to what the previous show established. It can even change the way you see him on Buffy. And his "team" on his show was amazing. While Buffy and Angel are both great shows in the same universe, they each had different strengths: Angel's strengths were its arcs. The arcs in that show easily surpassed Buffy's. In fact, Angel contains my absolute favorite character arc of the entire Buffy-verse: that of Wesley Wyndam-Price. That's right, the dorky watcher who took over when the Council fires Giles and then disappeared. If you don't watch Angel, you'll never get to see how ridiculously awesome he became! And that would be tragic.

It also contains my 2nd favorite character arc in the entire Buffy-verse. And 3rd. But both of those are bigger spoilers than I'd want to give away. Most of the Buffy characters who crossed over to Angel ended up being waaay better on that show than they were on Buffy.

Hell, half the fandom seems to prefer Angel to Buffy. I personally prefer Buffy, but that's because I'm a sucker for a good coming-of-age story. Angel is a different type of story entirely. Thematically it can be very Batman-esque (redemption, trying to save his city's souls while repairing his own, etc). I think superhero fans tend to prefer it because it feels more like a superhero show.

Well that's my pitch. I urge you to give it a shot, and just note that, like Buffy, it needed a season to find its footing. The first season is quite "meh" (your phrase!), but not AS "meh" as Buffy's. The arcs don't kick in 'til season 2. But it's SO worth the trip. It will very likely surprise you just as much as Buffy did.

I actually stated watching Angel religiously before I really got into Buffy. Then I went back and watched Buffy from the beginning of season one until Angle shows up and realize that his character was one dimensional in Buffy. Angle was so much better in his own series. Angle seemed to have far better story arc than Buffy.

Gloria < Illyria

[JeetKuneDo]

Originally Posted by flickchick85

The thing with Angel though, is that a lot of people (like me) didn't like him UNTIL he got his own show. I cannot stress this enough: Angel became a MUCH more interesting character once he was free of Buffy. Partially because on her show, we were only seeing him through her eyes. Once we start seeing the world through his perspective, he becomes a totally different character while remaining faithful to what the previous show established. It can even change the way you see him on Buffy. And his "team" on his show was amazing. While Buffy and Angel are both great shows in the same universe, they each had different strengths: Angel's strengths were its arcs. The arcs in that show easily surpassed Buffy's. In fact, Angel contains my absolute favorite character arc of the entire Buffy-verse: that of Wesley Wyndam-Price. That's right, the dorky watcher who took over when the Council fired Giles and then disappeared after S3. If you don't watch Angel, you'll never get to see how ridiculously awesome he became! And that would be truly tragic.

It also contains my 2nd favorite character arc in the entire Buffy-verse. And 3rd. But both of those are bigger spoilers than I'd want to give away. Most of the Buffy characters who crossed over to Angel ended up being waaay better on that show than they were on Buffy.

Ok....you're the only person who has made a convincing case for Angel. I'll check it out based on what you just said. (pressure is on! lol)

[flickchick85]

Originally Posted by JeetKuneDo

Ok....you're the only person who has made a convincing case for Angel. I'll check it out based on what you just said. (pressure is on! lol)

Yay! Oh god, I'm no good with pressure....just remember: stick with it to Season 2! I mean, the second half of season 1 features a few pretty compelling episodes too, but you just...have to get there first, lol.

I'd be interested in hearing your thoughts as you go along, too, if you care to share them!

Originally Posted by Smashlilman

Gloria < Illyria

I loved Glory, but I agree. Illyria was better.

[JeetKuneDo]

Originally Posted by flickchick85

Yay! Oh god, I'm no good with pressure....just remember: stick with it to Season 2! I mean, the second half of season 1 features a few pretty compelling episodes too, but you just...have to get there first, lol.

I'd be interested in hearing your thoughts as you go along, too, if you care to share them!

I'll do that.

...Also you should know your AD avatar was a factor....if you love AD that gives you automatic cool points. (10 points is the standard amount for AD I think)

[marvelrobbins]

When Joss was attached to wonder woman the actress he worked with who was rumored the most was Morena Baccarin.Joss on Serenity DVD on many of Morena's scenes being deleted even hinted at this when he said he had plans to make It up to her.Morena was also one under consideration for Maria Hill.

I surely wish Firefly would have been given the chance Fringe got on Fox.Hell I would have loved for DollHouse to got one 22 episode season.

The first Season of Angel Is weakest.Joss himself said a weakness of Angel early on was It was more anothly show early on and he sucked at doing that kind of show.Once It become Angel's quest for redemption In battle between Good and Evil.Angel seasons 3 and 4(season 4 can create debate amnong Angel fans) are better than Buffy seasons 6,and 7.

Angel had great character growth(except for Cordelia.I am one fan who hated the so called Saint Cordelia that arose from her having the visions)

Buffy was more Spider-Man like but Angel was more Batman or X-Men like

Joss knows how to do ensembles/Angel Is prime example of this.Angel was head of ensambles but characaters like wesley,Gunn,and fred had great arcs during the show.The final season brought on Spike and keep balance between Angel and Spike.And didn't Ignore the rest of cast.

Assuming Marvel Studios don't interfear too much he will hit the Avengers out of the park.

[flickchick85]

Originally Posted by JeetKuneDo

...Also you should know your AD avatar was a factor....if you love AD that gives you automatic cool points. (10 points is the standard amount for AD I think)

Thanks! And yes, you speak truth.

[The Morningstar]

Is that Max from Mission Impossible?

[flickchick85]

Originally Posted by The Morningstar

Is that Max from Mission Impossible?

Nope, Max was played by Vanessa Redgrave. The character in my icon is Lucille Bluth from Arrested Development, played by Jessica Walter. I agree she does look a bit like Max in my icon, though I don't think she usually does:

VIDEO-CLick to Watch!:

[mclay18]

Originally Posted by flickchick85

Most of the Buffy characters who crossed over to Angel ended up being waaay better on that show than they were on Buffy.

Wesley, hell yes on that. Cordelia and Spike however, no. Cordelia's arc was fine up until S4, until that romantic triangle/Jasmine arc turned me off. (She did get a good comeback in S5, but too little too late.) I hated that Joss

Spoiler!!! Click to Read!:

essentially neutered Spike and turned him into yet another love interest during S4 onwards

Some characters just lose their appeal once writers start taking them in new directions.

[flickchick85]

Originally Posted by mclay18

Wesley, hell yes on that. Cordelia and Spike however, no. Cordelia's arc was fine up until S4, until that romantic triangle/Jasmine arc turned me off. (She did get a good comeback in S5, but too little too late.) I hated that Joss

Spoiler!!! Click to Read!:

essentially neutered Spike and turned him into yet another love interest during S4 onwards

Some characters just lose their appeal once writers start taking them in new directions.

The portion you wrote in spoiler tags is exactly WHY I prefer Spike on Angel more than Buffy. None of that love interest crap. By the end of Angel, he chose the heroic path for HIMSELF, rather than ~for Buffy~. His dynamic with Angel was much more interesting (and consistent) than the one he had with Buffy, imo. I mean, back when they were both evil, they had essentially the same dynamic as they had once they were both good. I love that, because I love their history.

I only semi-agree on Cordelia. My favorite iteration of that character in the entire Buffy-verse was in S1 and S2 of Angel. That was her realizing the potential I always thought she had on Buffy. But after that, I agree, they went in a bad direction with her. It made for a hell of a plot in S4, though, and they did salvage her character in S5, so I'm not too bitter about it.

[marvelrobbins]

Season 3 of Angel made me dislike Cordelia.Seasons 1 and 2 were all right.They made her too much a saint In season 3.I defently didn't mind season 4 since It got her away from Angel.I was one who didn't like the Idea the Idea of her with Angel.Many fans didn't eather despite what some later said.Joss himself said fans wanted to go after him with pitchforks over It.

Wesley had best arc on Angel.Remember noone wanted wesley on Angel.

I never liked the Idea of Spike with Buffy.It was one thing for him to have feelings for her.It was another thing for her to sleep with him.

Joss' past work shows he Is the guy who can manage an ensemble cast.With a large budget If he can do for superheros what he did In Serenity we are In for quite a treat.
Although Serenity was focused on mostly Mal(showing he can focus on male caharacters) and River the rest of cast except for Book and possibly Irnia had their moments.Plus he had to Introduce a new Villain.And had to do a little exposition for the general audence.In The AVengers he doesn't have to do any setup or Introductions.Yes he has to deal with the ending of Thor.

And I am thinking Black Widow will benefit from him as writer and director as only major female character.

[Hunter Rider]

I was always team Angel/Cordy! Wesley going from nerdy bookworm to this stubbly badass was fun.

[flickchick85]

Originally Posted by Hunter Rider

I was always team Angel/Cordy! Wesley going from nerdy bookworm to this stubbly badass was fun.

I was team Angel/Cordy friendship! Once they started crossing over into that other realm, it just felt weird.

In semi-related news, The Vulture is narrowing down the Greatest TV Drama of the Last 25 Years, and the first round was Buffy vs. Deadwood. This was particularly ironic for me since these are the two shows constantly battling it out for the #3 spot on my own personal Favorite Shows of All-Time list. They came down on the side of Buffy:

http://www.vulture.com/2012/03/drama...-deadwood.html

And their reasoning kinda sways my preference back in Buffy's favor as well. Deadwood may just have to settle with being my 4th favorite show.