All Things Superman: An Open Discussion - Part 8

[I SEE SPIDEY]

If the film is good nobody is going to be *****ing about it being "dark" and or "edgy." I don't want it to be too dark and edgy though because that just isn't the character.

[El Payaso]

Originally Posted by herolee10

True and I do think that was his intention, on giving Superman an obstacle that he wouldn't be able to change so easily.

However, at the same time, while some people may have wondered who Lois would choose, during that entire ordeal, I kept reading more complaints on how it'd make Superman look bad because regardless of the fact that he's Jason's biological Father, he'd still be inadvertently filling in as the "homewrecker" role for a lot of people by breaking up that family since for 5 years, that's what Jason and Lois had accustomed to live by.

Yeah, well. It was clearly stated that Lois did choose NOPT to marry Richard. And he does suspect - I'd say know - that she's still in love with Superman.

If he stayed with her it was his decision. But he knows for sure she doesn't love him enough. I wouldn't call that a 'happy family' but more like someone who has resigned herself to be with a good man. But not the one she loves.

Originally Posted by herolee10

I wouldn't mind personally seeing Superman go through that phase where he's wondering if he should just focus on being a hero or giving into his desires and trying to pursue some form of normalcy in his life by trying to have a romantic relationship with someone, but at the same time, given how much is going on in this film, I wouldn't think that it'd be best to introduce something like Lois being involved with another guy, let alone a "good person" as how Richard White was described, where we have a love triangle going on as well.

No, might not be the best way to do it now. But I was saying that this kind of personal issues are part of any three dimensional worthy character. In spite of many fans only wanting to see a walking icon.

Originally Posted by herolee10

Honestly, with Raimi's treatment of that relationship, along with MJ for that matter, I couldn't figure out as to why ANYONE would love that version of MJ. There was not one SINGLE redeeming quality that I could find for her so I could never understand as to why I should root for Peter to get her based on how she was written.

Oh, MJ was despicable. Annoying, selfish, one wonders what has had Peter in love with her since he was 6. The answer is only one: he's a moron.

But at the same time I never saw what was so valuable about Lois Lane in the old Superman franchise. Well, at least she was charming.

Anyways, my point was that if Raimi failed at it, it doesn't mean it shouldn't or can't be done.

Originally Posted by herolee10

And yeah, I blame the whole erasing Lois's mind purely on the stupidity of the Salkinds and such for not wanting to change the status quo of how the relationship was known to the GA at that time.

Originally Posted by herolee10

I'm hoping that in this film, that they don't have Superman renounce his love life by the end of the film and have him be okay with it.

I actually want to see a hero on screen where we know that he may just have some hope in having a happy life someday.

Yeah, hopeful but not solved. I think that he embracing his mission doesn't retract from him having personal problems during the development of such mission.

One thing is to say, I'll do it because I'm meant to. Another is how you deal with it day after day. But apparently this movie will be all about how it got started only.

[Rockstar]

Originally Posted by I SEE SPIDEY

If the film is good nobody is going to be *****ing about it being "dark" and or "edgy." I don't want it to be too dark and edgy though because that just isn't the character.

I think the character will be whatever Nolan and Goyer decide him to be. It doesn't necessarily have to align with the class archetype of Superman since this is a reinvention of the character.


If I had to make a guess, I'd say Superman's internal conflict in this will involve his alien heritage VS his connection to the human race. He may have to choose sides.

[Showtime]

Originally Posted by I SEE SPIDEY

If the film is good nobody is going to be *****ing about it being "dark" and or "edgy." I don't want it to be too dark and edgy though because that just isn't the character.

I think the bigger problem is movies like Avengers. I think its a problem for The Amazing Spider-Man and Superman. When you have huge movies that scream Transformers with Superheroes, I think it is tough for smaller Superhero flicks to compete. No matter the action level that Superman and The Amazing Spider-Man has, it won't be close to Avengers and that is what appeals to the general public in the Summer.

[FilmNerdJamie]

The Amazing Spider-Man is "edgy" too and look at how many don't give two ****s about it.

[Rockstar]

Thank goodness The Amazing Spider-Man went that route. We're bound to get quality this time.

The Raimi films were campy soap operas.

[Showtime]

Originally Posted by Rockstar

Thank goodness The Amazing Spider-Man went that route. We're bound to get quality this time.

The Raimi films were campy soap operas.

Only problem for the studio is it's going to make so much less money. I'm sure it will be good. Nobody cares about it though.

[RavenX]

I loved the Raimi Spidey films. I don't really find myself excited about Amazing.

we'll see how well it does.

I'm optimistic about MOS, though.

[Mindreaper21]

When I think of "edgy" when it comes to Superman, I think of the animated series. I think of big fights and stuff getting destroyed. This movie will be great. I'm glad it won't be all clean and campy were everyone looks perfectly made up throughout the entire movie. In that case they all may as well hold hands and sing "kumbaya". MoS is going to be real and dirty. I'm starting to get a sense that this movie will be in the range of "Gladiator". There was plenty of emotion and action.

[The Batman]

Originally Posted by Showtime

No offense Rockstar, but with Goyer and Nolan on the project everybody was saying it would be the "Batman" version of Superman. The problem is, Superman being edgy is not all that exciting. All the heroes are "edgy".

This.

Its another reminder that Superman has gone from setting the trend to following them.

[Showtime]

Originally Posted by The Batman

This.

Its another reminder that Superman has gone from setting the trend to following them.

I don't think they really know what to do with Superman. I am sure the movie will be good, ie I will enjoy it. It's just not going to be enough to make bank for the studio. Which again, why the hell do I care how much it makes anyway?

[HighFivingMF]

I only care how much it makes to the point it gets a sequel.

[I SEE SPIDEY]

Originally Posted by FilmNerdJamie

The Amazing Spider-Man is "edgy" too and look at how many don't give two ****s about it.

I haven't seen any hype for the thing. 99% of the time the trailer gets no reaction from my theater. I'm sure it will do over 200mil because of those 3D tickets and the popularity of the character but not too much more than that.

Originally Posted by Rockstar

Thank goodness The Amazing Spider-Man went that route. We're bound to get quality this time.

The Raimi films were campy soap operas.

You can not like the films but most did and they got good reviews and made tons of money. No matter how much the Raimi haters ***** they can not take away from the success of those films.

I hope you get a movie you can enjoy but I think that The Amazing Spider-Man looks like a rehash of the first film that is rip off the tone of Nolan's Batman movies. I also think that it was stupid to do another origin story and I see it paying for that mistake at the box office.

Anyway back to Superman:

Edgy means nothing if the film isn't good.

[El Payaso]

Originally Posted by I SEE SPIDEY

I haven't seen any hype for the thing. 99% of the time the trailer gets no reaction from my theater. I'm sure it will do over 200mil because of those 3D tickets and the popularity of the character but not too much more than that.

I think this is felt by most as the Spider-man 4 movie. By the fourth movie - specially preceeded by something like SM3 - many have lost the enthusiasm.

Originally Posted by I SEE SPIDEY

You can not like the films but most did and they got good reviews and made tons of money. No matter how much the Raimi haters ***** they can not take away from the success of those films.

Nobody denies the success. Some deny the quality. SM3 was very successful and so was Transformers 2.

Originally Posted by I SEE SPIDEY

I hope you get a movie you can enjoy but I think that The Amazing Spider-Man looks like a rehash of the first film that is rip off the tone of Nolan's Batman movies. I also think that it was stupid to do another origin story and I see it paying for that mistake at the box office.

But how could we link the BO factor to the 'origin again' one?

[I SEE SPIDEY]

Originally Posted by El Payaso

I think this is felt by most as the Spider-man 4 movie. By the fourth movie - specially preceeded by something like SM3 - many have lost the enthusiasm.

I think that the 3rd movie is going to be another thing that hurts it but I also feel that the pointless re-origin thing will hurt it too and it just being a reboot. The first reboots almost never do as well as the original.

Originally Posted by El Payaso

Nobody denies the success. Some deny the quality. SM3 was very successful and so was Transformers 2.

There are plenty of people who deny the success of the films just because they don't like them. They pretend that everyone hated them because they did all the time over on the Spider-Man boards and all over the interwebs. I don't know why you keep bringing up Spider-Man 3 as if I'm going to defend it or something. I've already said that I didn't like the 3rd one but I did like the well liked first and second films so it should be assumed that I am not talking about Spider-Man 3 when I mention the good reception of the series. The first two had good reviews, word of mouth and made lots of money, those things are facts.

Originally Posted by El Payaso

But how could we link the BO factor to the 'origin again' one?

I guess I answered this in my first paragraph.

[Bruce_Begins]

I don't believe that MOS will be "dark" and "edgy". People just like to throw out these terms (even Snyder does) just to show that this movie will not have the same tone as Donner Superman movies, that does not mean that the movie will be dark like TDK and watchmen.

[LibidoLoca]

Agreed. The "dark" and "edgy" descriptions are getting tedious to me. We all knew with Nolan/Goyer we were going to get something similar to their Bat films (albeit with Snyder's visual flare), but I find myself not caring for it when it comes to Superman. I would like a balance between the "lightness" of Supes and the grit of real life. If that makes sense.

[Prime]

Originally Posted by El Payaso

I think this is felt by most as the Spider-man 4 movie. By the fourth movie - specially preceeded by something like SM3 - many have lost the enthusiasm.

Well, it's not really surprising, I think. Even though they get a lot of flack now from some fanboys the Sam Raimi SM movies were great (apart from 3, which was not so horrible that it couldn't pick itself up with the 4th movie), even if I cringe often with some of the romance featured. And as was mentioned, not only were they great, they were very successful and loved by the public. We got 3 Spider-Man movies in the past 10 years and they are already rebooting it. And quite frankly, it's no wonder there's no enthusiasm from the trailers. It looks like a shoddy remake of Spider-Man 1 but without the appeal of the first one and with a tone that doesn't really suit Spider-Man in the eyes of all who loved the Sam Raimi movies.

Now, MOS doesn't have to worry about that, imo. It doesn't have the baggage of having 2 great and loved movies out in the past 10 years. It has no baggage really, most viewers up to 30 don't have a Superman movie they call their own (meaning, they either didn't see or didn't like S:TM or S2) so it has room to maneuver with the ´´darker`` and ´´edgier`` tone - as long as Superman himself isn't plagued by it. And honestly I am starting to dislike these silly terms, dark and edgy and so on. Suddenly if you make a movie set in a real (our) world, it's dark and edgy and what not. I guess the time we live in must be really dark and edgy.

[The Batman]

Originally Posted by Showtime

I don't think they really know what to do with Superman. I am sure the movie will be good, ie I will enjoy it. It's just not going to be enough to make bank for the studio. Which again, why the hell do I care how much it makes anyway?

I can't really blame them for not knowing what to do...the audience dosent know what it wants regarding Superman.Non Superman fans bash Superman for supposedly being too powerful, but then love characters like Goku or even movie Thor. They try to make a fresh take on Superman, but Flyby was bashed by the fans, so they went with the "Traditional" approach in SR...which is now being bashed by fans as being too much like Donner. You dont mention "Truth, Justice, and the American Way", and people throw a fit, but if you make him a patriot, you'll get flack for that too.

I think it'll be enjoyable, but I wouldnt be surprised if I found myself thinking it could've been more. I'm looking for the onscreen equivalent of All Star Superman, Kingdom Come, or Red Son, not John Bryne's MOS, Earth One, or even Geoff John's Secret Origin arc.

[I SEE SPIDEY]

MOS is going to have to worry about superhero movie fatigue and the mixed reaction of SR. And the fact that SR only came out in 2006.

I honestly think that Warners should not be expecting a blow out box office performance for the film (because I don't see them getting it) I think that they should be shooting for a decent enough performance with good reviews and good word of mouth.

SR had the decent box office and good reviews but the audience reaction was mixed as all get out. They need to fix that last thing then worry about record or near record or just great box office returns for a sequel.

[BH/HHH]

By the way people he never said dark he just said 'more edgy like the Dark Knight'.

I like the idea of the film been edgy, nice to see some minor news and the prop pics revealed a little too.

[Rust]

Originally Posted by LibidoLoca

Agreed. The "dark" and "edgy" descriptions are getting tedious to me. We all knew with Nolan/Goyer we were going to get something similar to their Bat films (albeit with Snyder's visual flare), but I find myself not caring for it when it comes to Superman. I would like a balance between the "lightness" of Supes and the grit of real life. If that makes sense.

Yeah, when talking about the whole business of MOS being edgy and gritty why do people always assume that they're talking about the man of steel himself. While he'll probably be a bit more of a badass and a brawler in this adaptation than we're used to, I can only imagine these words are being used to describe the world around him and the antagonists he goes up against as well as the action and the FX.

[Project862006]

well you know a movie can be dark and edgy and still have the character still be a beacon of hope

[BH/HHH]

It was really great. I didn't even really notice how big it was until I finished shooting. It was so overwhelming that it was crazy, I was like "I can't believe I just did all that." In the moment, I was really focused on the work and the acting.

What will people really love about Man of Steel?

When Zack [Snyder] and I were talking about it the first time, he was saying how Superman, they want to give it a more edgy feel like The Dark Knight but also make it more realistic and emotional so it's not just the all-american superhero that saves everyone. He has dilemmas and love and struggles throughout the whole movie, especially when he's a kid.

The only Dark he says is in Dark Knight, Superman's world can be edgy without been dark.

[Rust]

Originally Posted by Project862006

well you know a movie can be dark and edgy and still have the character still be a beacon of hope

Yeah, I thought that was what Superman was all about essentially.