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Old 04-12-2012, 06:56 PM   #51
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Default Re: The Night Gwen Stacy Died

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Originally Posted by Anno_Domini View Post
Trilogies definitely work with a lot of films, and it seems to work with what Nolan has done with Batman, but I feel like Webb shouldn't definitely go for at least four films. I mean, if Webb even wants to get near the Mary Jane territory, I think there needs to be somewhat of a space between the Peter/MJ relationship and the Peter/Gwen one, i.e., having a fourth film that focuses on Peter/MJ after the death of Gwen.

I've always said the third film should be where Green Goblin is the villain and Gwen meets her end. Being the second film, even if different or otherwise, will feel too much like The Dark Knight to me even if so many others would beg to differ.

TAS-M 1 - Lizard
TAS-M 2 - Electro
TAS-M 3 - Green Goblin
TAS-M 4 - Mysterio


Excelsior
I pretty much agree!

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Old 04-12-2012, 07:12 PM   #52
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Default Re: The Night Gwen Stacy Died

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Originally Posted by Anno_Domini View Post
Trilogies definitely work with a lot of films, and it seems to work with what Nolan has done with Batman, but I feel like Webb shouldn't definitely go for at least four films. I mean, if Webb even wants to get near the Mary Jane territory, I think there needs to be somewhat of a space between the Peter/MJ relationship and the Peter/Gwen one, i.e., having a fourth film that focuses on Peter/MJ after the death of Gwen.

I've always said the third film should be where Green Goblin is the villain and Gwen meets her end. Being the second film, even if different or otherwise, will feel too much like The Dark Knight to me even if so many others would beg to differ.

TAS-M 1 - Lizard
TAS-M 2 - Electro
TAS-M 3 - Green Goblin
TAS-M 4 - Mysterio

Excelsior
I think you'll need a backup villian for Electro, he's a cool effect sure, but storywise isn't going to be very interesting. It's the same feeling I had about Sandman, cool effect to be sure, but where's the story? I have the same bad feeling about the Lizard, Doc Connors has a great and tragic story, but once he turns into the Lizard, it's just a monster movie. Unless you give the Lizard Connor's intelligence, but then that kind of defeats the purpose of the character.

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Old 04-12-2012, 08:35 PM   #53
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Default Re: The Night Gwen Stacy Died

Max Dillon's story can be altered, and I always thought he could be an experiment from OsCorp, but that may not fly since the video game is all about experiments from OsCorp gone wrong, but in any case, Electro's story can be altered with no need of any back up villain.

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Old 04-12-2012, 08:37 PM   #54
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Default Re: The Night Gwen Stacy Died

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Originally Posted by Anno_Domini View Post
Trilogies definitely work with a lot of films, and it seems to work with what Nolan has done with Batman, but I feel like Webb shouldn't definitely go for at least four films. I mean, if Webb even wants to get near the Mary Jane territory, I think there needs to be somewhat of a space between the Peter/MJ relationship and the Peter/Gwen one, i.e., having a fourth film that focuses on Peter/MJ after the death of Gwen.

I've always said the third film should be where Green Goblin is the villain and Gwen meets her end. Being the second film, even if different or otherwise, will feel too much like The Dark Knight to me even if so many others would beg to differ.

TAS-M 1 - Lizard
TAS-M 2 - Electro
TAS-M 3 - Green Goblin
TAS-M 4 - Mysterio

Excelsior
In a perfect world, we'd be getting 4 TASM movies. But we're not. I don't see what's TDK-like about TASM 2, apart from the fact that the love interest will die in it. That, and the fact that it features the hero's arch-nemesis. But that's still not going to make it feel like TDK at all.

TASM: The Lizard

TASM 2: GG, death of Gwen Stacy

TASM 3: Who knows!?

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Old 04-12-2012, 10:42 PM   #55
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Default Re: The Night Gwen Stacy Died

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In a perfect world, we'd be getting 4 TASM movies. But we're not. I don't see what's TDK-like about TASM 2, apart from the fact that the love interest will die in it. That, and the fact that it features the hero's arch-nemesis. But that's still not going to make it feel like TDK at all.

TASM: The Lizard

TASM 2: GG, death of Gwen Stacy

TASM 3: Who knows!?
The love interest dying and the hero's archenemy...won't that be enough for it to feel like TDK? Plus with Webb's series being grounded as Nolan has done with Batman, it would look like Webb is just copying what Nolan has done. I'm not saying it'll be fact, but it'll feel like it. I would at least put in some difference with having GG in the third and then killing off Gwen, but as I said...only if we get four films, which sucks since we're only getting a trilogy.

But, for the third film...I really don't know either. Electro? I REALLY want to see him in a film.

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Old 04-13-2012, 05:11 AM   #56
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Default Re: The Night Gwen Stacy Died

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Originally Posted by Anno_Domini View Post
Trilogies definitely work with a lot of films, and it seems to work with what Nolan has done with Batman, but I feel like Webb shouldn't definitely go for at least four films. I mean, if Webb even wants to get near the Mary Jane territory, I think there needs to be somewhat of a space between the Peter/MJ relationship and the Peter/Gwen one, i.e., having a fourth film that focuses on Peter/MJ after the death of Gwen.

I've always said the third film should be where Green Goblin is the villain and Gwen meets her end. Being the second film, even if different or otherwise, will feel too much like The Dark Knight to me even if so many others would beg to differ.

TAS-M 1 - Lizard
TAS-M 2 - Electro
TAS-M 3 - Green Goblin
TAS-M 4 - Mysterio

Excelsior
I agree with this, though I'd switch Electro for Doc Ock.

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Old 04-13-2012, 07:50 AM   #57
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Default Re: The Night Gwen Stacy Died

Is there going to be four now or are we just saying it?

TASM-Lizard
TASM 2-Goblin, possibly a side villain
TASM 3-Doc Ock, a cooler version of the Vulture
TASM 4-Venom

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Old 04-13-2012, 09:52 AM   #58
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Default Re: The Night Gwen Stacy Died

No. It's going to be a trilogy. It was *confirmed*.

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Old 04-13-2012, 12:59 PM   #59
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Default Re: The Night Gwen Stacy Died

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I agree with this, though I'd switch Electro for Doc Ock.
Eh....I mean, yes, Doc Ock is a major villain for Spidey, but Molina was the best guy for Ock and Ock was the best villain out of Raimi's trilogy, so I wouldn't mind if they don't bring him as a villain. Dafoe was good as Green Goblin, but we need a better look of him; Alfred Molina was AMAZING as Doc Ock that I would have no complaints if he doesn't show up in the reboot.

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Is there going to be four now or are we just saying it?
Lol, no, I'm only saying what I would like to see in four films if there was, but sadly it's just a trilogy supposedly.

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No. It's going to be a trilogy. It was *confirmed*.
Could there be a chance that would change? Like...at least maybe a 10% chance?

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Old 04-13-2012, 01:02 PM   #60
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Default Re: The Night Gwen Stacy Died

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Eh....I mean, yes, Doc Ock is a major villain for Spidey, but Molina was the best guy for Ock and Ock was the best villain out of Raimi's trilogy, so I wouldn't mind if they don't bring him as a villain. Dafoe was good as Green Goblin, but we need a better look of him; Alfred Molina was AMAZING as Doc Ock that I would have no complaints if he doesn't show up in the reboot.
IMO, there's much more to Doc Ock that we didn't see in SM2. Enough to have him in this trilogy if you ask me.

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Old 04-13-2012, 01:13 PM   #61
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Default Re: The Night Gwen Stacy Died

But performance-wise, you think someone can be better at Molina with a different take on the villain?

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Old 04-13-2012, 01:16 PM   #62
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Could there be a chance that would change? Like...at least maybe a 10% chance?
There probably is.

The reason I don't think that it'll change is because... well, after reading the interviews with Marc, it seems as though he pretty much has set what TASM 1-3 will be about. I don't see him changing that.

I'm willing to bet the GG will be the villain in the sequel.

It was mentioned that the villain of the next movie will be hinted in this one, so I guess we'll see.

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Old 04-13-2012, 01:16 PM   #63
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Default Re: The Night Gwen Stacy Died

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But performance-wise, you think someone can be better at Molina with a different take on the villain?
Why not? People used to say there's no way Ledger could out-do Nicholson's performance. And look how that turned out.

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Old 04-13-2012, 01:17 PM   #64
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But performance-wise, you think someone can be better at Molina with a different take on the villain?
Performance-wise Molina was one of the best villain casts ever IMO, but that's not really relevant since that would be like saying Joker shouldn't be used again because of Heath Ledger. The character is bigger than the actor. We've yet to see the truly evil, criminal mastermind.

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Old 04-13-2012, 04:38 PM   #65
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Don't really think we need Ock again. It would be way way way too soon. If he was part of the Sinister Six? Okay. But, when we have a whole arsenal of Spider-Man villains that can become larger in life in film? Why repeat two that we've already seen? Unless, like Nolan, we have more than one villain. Otherwise we'd just have Lizard, Ock, and GG - sounds redundant and unnecessary and like a waste.

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Old 04-13-2012, 05:39 PM   #66
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Default Re: The Night Gwen Stacy Died

Ock would be a great villain choice but if there's going to be repeating any villains from the Raimi series, I'd much rather have GG. He's my personal favorite and it would give me great pleasure to see him fully fleshed out and given a chance to show a better version of his character. Ock in the Raimi universe was portrayed really well and although someone could potentially do a better job than Molina in the role, I'm ok with leaving Ock at that.

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Old 04-13-2012, 06:06 PM   #67
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There probably is.

The reason I don't think that it'll change is because... well, after reading the interviews with Marc, it seems as though he pretty much has set what TASM 1-3 will be about. I don't see him changing that.

I'm willing to bet the GG will be the villain in the sequel.

It was mentioned that the villain of the next movie will be hinted in this one, so I guess we'll see.
Lol, yah...I suppose Green Goblin may be hinted, but who knows...maybe it's a cancer suit, or someone who was electrocuted, haha.

I think, though, at least Webb has it sounding like he has an idea for the trilogy right off the bat, if that helps in the long run, and possibly giving us a third movie that won't give us a retcon, lol. Sometimes planning things out can work, and sometimes it can't.

I wonder if we'll ever get Mysterio in a film though.

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Why not? People used to say there's no way Ledger could out-do Nicholson's performance. And look how that turned out.
And there's a twenty year gap between the films as well as much different tones for each film, so no wonder Ledger was able to showcase a different performance that Nicholson did.

But it's only been eight years, and even with the goofy nature of Raimi's films, Ock personified that "dark" quality of Doc Ock that could be used in Webb's films, so it's really no use to see that again, unless Webb really wants to change up Ock and make him more like Ends of the Earth/Ultimate Spider-Man(cartoon) then what we see in Spider-Man 2.

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Performance-wise Molina was one of the best villain casts ever IMO, but that's not really relevant since that would be like saying Joker shouldn't be used again because of Heath Ledger. The character is bigger than the actor. We've yet to see the truly evil, criminal mastermind.
I doubt Joker will be used, at least for a while. That's what happens when someone portrays a character so brilliantly. I'm sure we could see the "mastermind" version of Doc Ock, but that would only fit if we get some Master Planner or Sinister Six storyline, and that may be too much for a film.

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Old 04-13-2012, 06:15 PM   #68
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And there's a twenty year gap between the films as well as much different tones for each film, so no wonder Ledger was able to showcase a different performance that Nicholson did.

But it's only been eight years, and even with the goofy nature of Raimi's films, Ock personified that "dark" quality of Doc Ock that could be used in Webb's films, so it's really no use to see that again, unless Webb really wants to change up Ock and make him more like Ends of the Earth/Ultimate Spider-Man(cartoon) then what we see in Spider-Man 2.
There's quite a big difference between someone giving a 'different' performance and a 'better' performance. Of course, the performance Ledger gave was different from Nicholson's...there was a different tone, director, etc. There was a great deal of speculation about his performance being better though and there was a lot of talk about Heath being miscast. Anyways, from what I remember about the talk on several forums was that no one that could top the Nicholson Joker.

The tone of the Webb series is already notably different from Raimi's so in that respect, yes, an Ock character in that universe would be tonally different than Raimi's. I also think that another actor could do a better job than Molina in portraying the character. It's definitely not a dig against Molina...he was awesome and gave a great performance.

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Old 04-13-2012, 06:19 PM   #69
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But I am assuming people want to see someone better than Molina, right? What's the point of a different Ock when it doesn't deliver as well as Molina in S-M 2? That would be waste after what we saw of Alfred Molin's Doc Ock.

I mean, I can't say Ledger was better, but it did give us a different aspect of Joker that could match up to Nicholson's performance.

The only reason I want a new Green Goblin is for him to be written better as the villain he's meant to be, as how Doc Ock was written. I mean, getting someone as magnificent as Dafoe would be amazing and a real plus, but as long as he's written better, that would be enough; I can't say the same thing for Doc Ock in the reboot as he was written extraordinary and was performed very well by Molina.

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Old 04-13-2012, 06:25 PM   #70
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Yeah, Molina was great and all but you should never be afraid to try to better it no matter how great it was. There are still qualities to Ock that hasn't really been shown if you ask me! While Doc Ock was great in SM2, the tone of the film itself is enough for me to justify another take on him.

Also, you shouldn't use a new villain just because it's new. Sure, if you find a way to make Mysterio fit into the trilogy better than Ock, I'm happy because I would love to see him get some spotlight! But I think Ock as a villain just fits better both as an intellectual and physical threat that's up there with Green Goblin. You can do so much with him to make a great story and film. He's also a nice contrast to Green Goblin.

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Old 04-13-2012, 06:25 PM   #71
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Default Re: The Night Gwen Stacy Died

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But I am assuming people want to see someone better than Molina, right? What's the point of a different Ock when it doesn't deliver as well as Molina in S-M 2? That would be waste after what we saw of Alfred Molin's Doc Ock.

I mean, I can't say Ledger was better, but it did give us a different aspect of Joker that could match up to Nicholson's performance.

The only reason I want a new Green Goblin is for him to be written better as the villain he's meant to be, as how Doc Ock was written. I mean, getting someone as magnificent as Dafoe would be amazing and a real plus, but as long as he's written better, that would be enough; I can't say the same thing for Doc Ock in the reboot as he was written extraordinary and was performed very well by Molina.
If we were given Ock again, I would want it to be better than Molina but I also wouldn't be surprised if it wasn't. And like you say, someone may give a performance that is on par with Molina's and I'd be ok with that too.

If you look back up the page a bit, I made a post on wanting the GG to appear in the Webb universe. He should be Spidey's greatest adversary. A character that is bent on domination...one who is truly sadistic, evil, and has his presence felt even when not on the screen. And when he is, the audience should be afraid. I think Dafoe is a great actor and although I doubt it would happen I'd love to see him portray the GG again.

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Old 04-14-2012, 12:20 AM   #72
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Also, you shouldn't use a new villain just because it's new. Sure, if you find a way to make Mysterio fit into the trilogy better than Ock, I'm happy because I would love to see him get some spotlight!
As a screenwriter out here in Hollywood with studio executives behind me, believe me when I say - these second hand characters have a lot to offer cinematically. There's just this wide huge universe to play in. If there is one MARVEL character that is close villain-wise to Batman's rogues gallery and standing on equal notable ground worldwide - it's Spidey's and that's for a reason. I've always had it in my mind to do a 'Spider-Man: The Series' years from now when it's possible because the rogues gallery is so vast. So a talented writer? Sure, they'd know how to use these guys. They're brilliant. And yes it would be an honest to god waste to have another film dedicated to Ock. If he was just part of something larger? Sure, but alone? Is a waste because it's holding all these other guys back - Ock has already had the spotlight and his film is deemed one of the best superhero movies out there. So again? Why? Let the other guys have the spotlight or just have Ock share it alongside them. 'Big Man' for example could even have his own film, that's how brilliant Stan Lee is.

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Old 04-14-2012, 05:13 AM   #73
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As a screenwriter out here in Hollywood with studio executives behind me, believe me when I say - these second hand characters have a lot to offer cinematically. There's just this wide huge universe to play in. If there is one MARVEL character that is close villain-wise to Batman's rogues gallery and standing on equal notable ground worldwide - it's Spidey's and that's for a reason. I've always had it in my mind to do a 'Spider-Man: The Series' years from now when it's possible because the rogues gallery is so vast. So a talented writer? Sure, they'd know how to use these guys. They're brilliant. And yes it would be an honest to god waste to have another film dedicated to Ock. If he was just part of something larger? Sure, but alone? Is a waste because it's holding all these other guys back - Ock has already had the spotlight and his film is deemed one of the best superhero movies out there. So again? Why? Let the other guys have the spotlight or just have Ock share it alongside them. 'Big Man' for example could even have his own film, that's how brilliant Stan Lee is.
Oh, I definitely believe you! I really think Mysterio, Kraven, Electro, Shocker etc. would be awesome on the big screen! I just mean that if they'd come up with a better story using Ock, they shouldn't hesitate just because Raimi had him. And I actually think Spidey's villains rogue is superior that to Batman. But anyway, I get your point and I might actually agree with you now. I hope we get Kraven's Last Hunt on the big screen sometime!

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Old 04-15-2012, 06:58 PM   #74
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Default Re: The Night Gwen Stacy Died

Hey all, it's been a few years since I've commented on the boards, but I've kept reading them every once in awhile. But a thing in the new international trailer caught my eye pertaining to this thread. There was a brief glimpse of Gwen wearing a trench coat like she does in the comic when she dies. I'm not sure if anyone has brought this up already, but I thought it was something to take note of.

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Old 04-15-2012, 07:18 PM   #75
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She won't be dying in this film though, if that's what you're trying to refer to.

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