Is anyone else just not a big fan of ASM right now?

[Web face]

I think he is talking about you and him, not DA and him

[CConn]

Oh. Duh.

Yes. It is creepy.

Especially since I was 16 when I started posting here, and TMOTB was a mature manther of like 48.

[Themanofbat]

[Themanofbat]

Originally Posted by CConn

Which is pretty dumb to change.

I wasn't arguing that it was good/bad... just the fact that the stories still occured in the minds of all Marvel Universe people involved.

[JewishHobbit]

For me it isn't necessarilly just the failed progression of what we've already read (and yes, dropping from marriage to longtime boyfriend/girlfriend is degression) it's also the sense that we can no longer have progression in the book beyond a certain point. Peter cannot ever marry a girl again. Peter cannot ever have a longterm job. Peter cannot ever grow up or have kids. Peter cannot progress behond small leaps without falling back again. Oh, and Aunt May cannot die... ever.

That's what's killed it for me. Besides changing one of the best things about Peter (his being a mature married adult), the modern day Marvel crew have put a stamp on the future of Peter Parker for what's too far... which they believe was hit about 20 years ago.

And thus, the everyday man who is supposed to be relatable is about as relatable and interesting as a treestump.


And on an unrelated note... I've not read but maybe half or less of Slott's run but does anyone feel that all these costumes are cheapening the specialness of when Peter DID actually get a new one? When he went with the Black Costume it was huge. When he went with the Steel costume it was a pretty big deal for the one issue it was in (and has been seen since in games and such). Ben Reilly's costume is pretty special. They struck it huge with the Iron Spidey again like the Black Costume days. Now all these costumes they're just another costume that he throws on for whatever reason. I feel like Slott's taking away the specialness of when Spidey actually changes costumes.

[DACrowe]

Originally Posted by CConn

This thread has gone on much longer than I expected.

Oh, and DA, you and MOTB have known each other for 12 years. That's creepy ****.

We both post around here. By that logic you and I've "known" you for eight years.

It's a good place to discuss geek stuff and the only one I used anymore. It's surprisingly civil for the Internet. I'm sure that's why you're still here as well.

[DACrowe]

Originally Posted by Themanofbat

Yes... it was...

Look, I'm not going to argue whether you like the direction of the book or not... it's all subjective and I can respect your opinion of not liking it... even though I don't believe you've read any of the newer stories... though it's possible that you may have.

However, I call on your comment of how Marvel "retconned 20 years of stories", which has cearly been established that that is not the case... the stories that you read from 1987 to 2007 still happened... just with Peter and MJ as a common-law couple...

Whether you want to think that that is stupid... again, that would be your opinion... one that I will respect.

I'm just helping you with the facts...

I got the general idea of it. I read ASM #600 and thumbed through "A Moment in Time" or whatever it was called. It just doesn't feel like the character I grew up with. He feels like a mascot to me. Agree to disagree.

[CConn]

Originally Posted by DACrowe

We both post around here. By that logic you and I've "known" you for eight years.

It's a good place to discuss geek stuff and the only one I used anymore. It's surprisingly civil for the Internet. I'm sure that's why you're still here as well.

Yes and yes.

[ben_reilly_s_s]

Originally Posted by Themanofbat

Yes... it was...

Look, I'm not going to argue whether you like the direction of the book or not... it's all subjective and I can respect your opinion of not liking it... even though I don't believe you've read any of the newer stories... though it's possible that you may have.

However, I call on your comment of how Marvel "retconned 20 years of stories", which has cearly been established that that is not the case... the stories that you read from 1987 to 2007 still happened... just with Peter and MJ as a common-law couple...

Whether you want to think that that is stupid... again, that would be your opinion... one that I will respect.

I'm just helping you with the facts...

MJ is now/was then no longer pregnant... that in itself is a huge change as it impacted many storylines....

[Themanofbat]

It'll only be "canon" once I read it in a book that she was never pregnant... and while that would have some ramifications on some stories of the Clone Saga, I think Marvel is mostly ignoring the finer details of the Clone Saga in any event... mostly due to the headaches it would bring old and new readers... it would be cool if that skeleton sub-plot from SensSM #2 were ever resolved, but I doubt we'll see it...

And overall, the impact the pregnancy had over a 20 year storytelling period would be negligeable... imo.

[ben_reilly_s_s]

It was resolved...

[ben_reilly_s_s]

it was in Blood Brothers Arc and in The Osborn Journal.

[DACrowe]

Mark Millar's Spidey story (which was probably the last non-KA Millar story I liked) mentioned she's dead. But I prefer the Spider-Girl MC2 universe to be the epilogue of the character that, for me, ended sometime before Sins Past began a period of skewing the character away from how he'd been written for the 40 years prior to those events.

[peter_parker]

The whole concept of the deal with Mephisto did not make any sense (even in a comic book "world"). If Mephisto has the power to wipe the minds of everyone in the world and change past events, then he is far more powerful than he was ever written to be. He's never been written to be that powerful. Not that this is the first time there is inconsistent writing in comic books, but it is a severe flaw in a "major" turning point in the entire Marvel Universe.

[Donald Thomas]

Originally Posted by peter_parker

The whole concept of the deal with Mephisto did not make any sense (even in a comic book "world"). If Mephisto has the power to wipe the minds of everyone in the world and change past events, then he is far more powerful than he was ever written to be. He's never been written to be that powerful. Not that this is the first time there is inconsistent writing in comic books, but it is a severe flaw in a "major" turning point in the entire Marvel Universe.

Aloha,
From Marvel.com
A Class Two Demon or Hell-lord, Mephisto rules a fiery nether realm that he refers to as Hell or Hades, though it is neither the Biblical Hell nor Pluto's Olympian Hades. In the distant past, Mephisto became engaged to the lover of one of his former soldiers, then manipulated that demon into slaying his lover; the demon became Darklove, cursed to always perform the opposite of love. Mephisto's realm includes the Arena of Tainted Souls where tainted souls are locked in perpetual combat. Mephisto delights in impersonating the Biblical Satan. Empowered by the souls of the damned, he often strikes deceptive bargains with the living. Mephisto takes particular interest in the souls of extremely powerful or exceptionally pure beings.

Mephisto had gained tremendous power by the evil of the extraterrestrial Dire Wraiths who were invading Earth at the time, but lost this power when the spaceknight Rom banished the Dire Wraiths, and Mephisto was temporarily destroyed by Franklin. Mephisto later re-formed, missing five fragments of his essence. He tricked the villain Master Pandemonium into gathering these fragments, which Pandemonium believed to be pieces of his own lost soul, and Mephisto was eventually restored to full strength. This resulted in the destruction of the Scarlet Witch's twin sons, whom she had mystically created by unwittingly trapping and transforming two of Mephisto's power fragments. A rivalry developed with the Asgardian death goddess Hela, who stole several souls that Mephisto considered his. Scheming to force Thor to oppose Hela, Mephisto temporarily stole the souls of several heroes, including the Invisible Woman, Jean Grey and Rogue, before finally claiming the one he'd sought all along: the Thunder God's. After a series of confrontations with the Fantastic Four, X-Factor, the X-Men and the Avengers, Mephisto freed Thor's soul, but his plot succeeded. Having seen the horrors in store should the realm of death ever expand to engulf the living, Thor vowed to stand against Hela's advances forevermore.

With at least one rival neutralized, Mephisto sought other means of increasing his power. When the godlike Beyonder came to Earth seeking understanding of humanity, Mephisto attempted to sway him by offering his own warped view of mortals, sending Zarathos to test Spider-Man's morality. When Mephisto tricked the herald of Galactus, Nova, into becoming more bloodthirsty in her duties, the Silver Surfer and Galactus both opposed the demon. Galactus and Mephisto engaged in a cosmos-shaking battle that left the Hell-Lord badly beaten. More failed attempts to gain the Medallion of Power followed, as well a brief period in which Mephisto served as an advisor to Thanos, who then held the Infinity Gauntlet. Mephisto lied to Thanos about his origins, linking them to the Infinity Gems, in the hopes of gaining the villain's trust. Thule's Eye of Force eventually achieved its goal, opening a portal to the "Vril," only for them to be revealed as Mephisto's demon elite. Mephisto devoured Thule as payment, but his intended invasion of Earth was thwarted by Cloak and Dagger, Spider-Man, and Ghost Rider (Dan Ketch).

Mephisto once stole the soul of Odin while he was in his Odinsleep, and Loki possessed Odin's form, but Odin ultimately reclaimed his body and Mephisto took Loki's soul, his true goal all along.

More on Marvel.com: http://marvel.com/universe/Mephisto#ixzz1s3nrfikP

Spidey rules

[Themanofbat]

Also, Mephisto did NOT wipe the minds of everyone in the world....

The combined forces of Reed Richards, Tony Stark and Dr. Strange mind wiped the world.



Also, Mephisto did NOT change past events... all he did was change ONE event... he let a crimminal go free...

[JJJ's Ulcer]

Originally Posted by Themanofbat

Also, Mephisto did NOT wipe the minds of everyone in the world....

The combined forces of Reed Richards, Tony Stark and Dr. Strange mind wiped the world.



Also, Mephisto did NOT change past events... all he did was change ONE event... he let a crimminal go free...

I admire your efforts to make a terrible story sound somewhat palatable.

I've gotten over OMD, but the whole premise of it still gives me douche-shudders.

If they wanted a single Peter, fine. There is no way divorcing them would have been worse than what we got.

[peter_parker]

Mephisto wiped lots of minds of memories... people "forgot" Peter and M.J. were married; "forgot" Harry Osborn was dead; and on and on.

Mephisto changed events: no Parker marriage; no Harry death; and on and on again. The ripple effect. Many things from the point of the Parker non-marriage on to the present was affected. I never knew Mephisto was powerful enough to re-write history (I thought only awful Marvel editors and writers could do that).

If Mephisto were this powerful, would he really need to wait for someone to give him permission to "do" these things?

[JJJ's Ulcer]

Originally Posted by peter_parker

Mephisto wiped lots of minds of memories... people "forgot" Peter and M.J. were married; "forgot" Harry Osborn was dead; and on and on.

Mephisto changed events: no Parker marriage; no Harry death; and on and on again. The ripple effect. Many things from the point of the Parker non-marriage on to the present was affected. I never knew Mephisto was powerful enough to re-write history (I thought only awful Marvel editors and writers could do that).

If Mephisto were this powerful, would he really need to wait for someone to give him permission to "do" these things?

Err, dude, TMOB is actually right. It was Tony, Reed, etc who did the memory wipe (It's SCIENCE!). I still think it was a terrible story and that was a lazy fix AFTER the fact. But you're wrong with pretty much most of your facts here, at least as it pertains to the continuity.

[spida-man]

Originally Posted by JewishHobbit

For me it isn't necessarilly just the failed progression of what we've already read (and yes, dropping from marriage to longtime boyfriend/girlfriend is degression) it's also the sense that we can no longer have progression in the book beyond a certain point. Peter cannot ever marry a girl again. Peter cannot ever have a longterm job. Peter cannot ever grow up or have kids. Peter cannot progress behond small leaps without falling back again. Oh, and Aunt May cannot die... ever.

That's what's killed it for me. Besides changing one of the best things about Peter (his being a mature married adult), the modern day Marvel crew have put a stamp on the future of Peter Parker for what's too far... which they believe was hit about 20 years ago.

And thus, the everyday man who is supposed to be relatable is about as relatable and interesting as a treestump.


And on an unrelated note... I've not read but maybe half or less of Slott's run but does anyone feel that all these costumes are cheapening the specialness of when Peter DID actually get a new one? When he went with the Black Costume it was huge. When he went with the Steel costume it was a pretty big deal for the one issue it was in (and has been seen since in games and such). Ben Reilly's costume is pretty special. They struck it huge with the Iron Spidey again like the Black Costume days. Now all these costumes they're just another costume that he throws on for whatever reason. I feel like Slott's taking away the specialness of when Spidey actually changes costumes.

I disagree...each suit he makes serves a major purpose and he also uses that tech for horizon labs to produce products for people to use.

thats like saying each upgraded suit to ironman is completely unnecessary saying they have no other purpose than to make him look cooler

[CConn]

Um, no. It's like saying it's not at all special when Tony upgrades his suit. Which it isn't, because he's done it 80 trillion times now. So if anything, you've reinforced JH's point.

[Themanofbat]

Originally Posted by peter_parker

Mephisto wiped lots of minds of memories... people "forgot" Peter and M.J. were married; "forgot" Harry Osborn was dead; and on and on.

Mephisto changed events: no Parker marriage; no Harry death; and on and on again. The ripple effect. Many things from the point of the Parker non-marriage on to the present was affected. I never knew Mephisto was powerful enough to re-write history (I thought only awful Marvel editors and writers could do that).

If Mephisto were this powerful, would he really need to wait for someone to give him permission to "do" these things?

See? You're not reading the book, so you don't have the explanations.

Mephisto went back in time and changed ONE simple event... he let a common criminal escape. This said criminal then prevents Peter from making it to the wedding, so no marriage... after a small fight, Peter and Mary Jane decide to live together as a common-law couple....so all those stories from 1987 to 2007 happen... up to and including Civil War... where Peter unmasks, which leads to Aunt May getting shot, but in a twist of irony, Peter himself saves her with "love" (you have to read OMIT for a more clear explanation)... After still being hounded by hitmen and killers going after MJ & Peter's family, Peter asks Dr. Strange to do something, so the good Doctor, along with Tony Stark & Reed Richards, use their know-ho to create a world wide mind wipe that will not only make people forget Peter Parker is Spider-Man, but will make them think of some other explanation if they suspect who Spider-Man is.... now this spell was weakened to the point of no longer working thanks to recent events in Spider-Island, but Mephisto had NOTHING to do with ANY of that...

As far as Harry goes, Harry was never dead... when we saw him get carted off in the ambulance at the end of Spec #200, he gets carted to Europe alongside Norman Osborn where he gets time to "heal"...

During the last few years, it's all been explained in the books... everything still happened the way they did... except the marriage, and possibly the pregnancy.

Read the books before making pissy blanket statements.

[Themanofbat]

Originally Posted by CConn

Um, no. It's like saying it's not at all special when Tony upgrades his suit. Which it isn't, because he's done it 80 trillion times now. So if anything, you've reinforced JH's point.

Hey CConn... have you been digging EOTE?

[CConn]

I haven't read it. The last issue I tried out was #679. I had the urge to try out EOTE a few times now, but with them being $4 and biweekly, so far I've just opted to pick up some back issues of Sweet Tooth and The Sixth Gun instead.

[runawayboulder]

EOTE has been really good so far.