A fan's rage

[Chris Wallace]

Originally Posted by The Morningstar

This movie doesn't look dark at all. It's just not campy.

And the scene in the back of the car with the thief is funnier than ANYTHING in Raimi's movies. That is Spider-Man right there.

It might be another origin story, but it's brining new elements into play, like the conspiracy with his parents. And of course we are getting a villain we've never seen before, plus a more accurate romance.

I would like to ask Chris Wallace to explain, in detail, what he doesn't like about the trailer and what doesn't make it look like Spider-Man. And to expand on that, what exactly, made the Raimi movies perfect, in terms of adaptations of the character. Because from what i've seen, this new take seems to simply be more accurate to the source material.

First off, I never said the Raimi movies were perfect. Never once did I use that word. NO film adaptation is. And secondly, I have explained REPEATEDLY in detail what I didn't like about the trailer and don't care to continue doing so. Especially when every time I cite something I take issue with-for example, Capt. Stacy taking on Jameson's personality-I get "You don't know that for sure!" I'm not gonna keep repeating myself to people who have already made up their minds that I'm some sort of brainwashed zombie.

[Chris Wallace]

Originally Posted by PSYLENTGuardian

They light up in the actual movie. I don't mind it one bit, to be honest.

not to you, but to the plot device. Add this to my list of reasons. Overdoing the tech aspects of the webshooter. It's supposed to be a simple device and it's been turned into something out of Star Trek. This is what you guys are arguing will bring it closer to the comics? IMO, this is overcompensating for those who just LOATHED the organic webbing so much.

[Web face]

Originally Posted by MarvelKnight

Thanks for the clarification.

No problem. I asked that question in the trailer thread of the spoilers section. Someone posted a pic of the asics he they are from. None of this would be spoilers right?

[MarvelKnight]

Don't believe so.

[SoNicRaDiATioN]

Maybe I should have posted the Beat it lyrics. "Just Beat it..."

But I prefer Weird Al's version "Just eat it"

[El Payaso]

Originally Posted by Chris Wallace

not to you, but to the plot device. Add this to my list of reasons. Overdoing the tech aspects of the webshooter. It's supposed to be a simple device and it's been turned into something out of Star Trek. This is what you guys are arguing will bring it closer to the comics? IMO, this is overcompensating for those who just LOATHED the organic webbing so much.

Have ypou tried to make one of those things? Do you think it's simple?

[CConn]

Originally Posted by Chris Wallace

First off, I never said the Raimi movies were perfect. Never once did I use that word. NO film adaptation is. And secondly, I have explained REPEATEDLY in detail what I didn't like about the trailer and don't care to continue doing so. Especially when every time I cite something I take issue with-for example, Capt. Stacy taking on Jameson's personality-I get "You don't know that for sure!" I'm not gonna keep repeating myself to people who have already made up their minds that I'm some sort of brainwashed zombie.

I haven't made up my mind you're brainwashed. I said that's what it appears to be. But I'm trying to give you an opportunity to more clearly state your complaints. But you're just not doing it.

Okay, you don't want to restate your detailed reasons for not liking it, but maybe you could just tell us the post # in this thread where you've stated any of your complaints in detail? I just reread all of your posts in this thread, and I haven't seen you go into anything in detail about your dislikes outside of your first post, which was entirely about the business end of the movie, and nothing about the actual movie itself.

Look, I'm not trying to be a dick. I'm not trying to even be at odds with you (or, at least, be at odds respectfully), but if you want people to come around to your way of thinking, or even respect your opinion, you need to actually state it and explain it intelligently.

If you can't do that, or don't want to, then there's no point in e en discussing this at all. Unless you're just looking to brainlessly commiserate and complain with other people who's made up their minds to hate a movie they haven't even seen.

[SoNicRaDiATioN]

Chris Wallace has already made his mind up. Don't count on any great insight, we haven't got any up to this point. No matter what happens with this film he will knock it. If it's great, he will knock it. He doesn't "care to continue" making points because he has nothing more to say. Yet he keeps knocking the film as if it's his duty. A troll personified and an epic bore in general.

[Web face]

Things are getting tense around here, why don't we all just back off of Chris Wallace lol.

[SoNicRaDiATioN]

Fair enough.

[amazingfantasy15]

Originally Posted by The Morningstar

High five!

Yea i mean, if someone really loves Raimi's version? Fine. But to basically boycott this new version after seeing a couple of trailers? That just... doesn't make any sense to me.

Especially when this new version seems to be so much more accurate to the source material, in terms of the little details (web shooters, the Stacey's) and overall tone.

I also think it shows some really inspired stuff. Like the part where Spidey is in the sewer, setting up what appears to be a proper spider web, most probably as some form of motion detector type thing. That's ingenious i have to say.

I call BS on that, name me the part in Amazing Fantasy #15 when Peter's hunt for his parents turns him into Spider-man. I also don't see anything in the trailer have I heard anything about him seeking fame and fortune when he first gets his powers. It seems like Webb has completely changed the origin outside of a spider bite giving him his powers. Also, I'm sure you mention the Stacey's because Gwen should come before Mary Jane, but Betty Brant should come before Gwen.

There's some interesting things in the trailer, but a lot of it rubs me the wrong way.

[CConn]

Originally Posted by amazingfantasy15

I call BS on that, name me the part in Amazing Fantasy #15 when Peter's hunt for his parents turns him into Spider-man. I also don't see anything in the trailer have I heard anything about him seeking fame and fortune when he first gets his powers. It seems like Webb has completely changed the origin outside of a spider bite giving him his powers. Also, I'm sure you mention the Stacey's because Gwen should come before Mary Jane, but Betty Brant should come before Gwen.

There's some interesting things in the trailer, but a lot of it rubs me the wrong way.

Well, obviously it's not going to be totally accurate to the source material. No live action superhero movie has been.

But personally, I concur with his thoughts on it seeming more accurate it tone to the early days of the Spider-Man comics. And I don't mean that everything is the same, but those little things about Spider-Man that were absent from the Raimi movies do seem to be there.

And he didn't just mention the Stacy's for the order in which Gwen appeared. He mentioned them for their overall portrayals. Spider-Man 3 totally ****ed both of those characters over and reduced them to little more than forgettable supporting characters. This new movie at least seems to have them more integrated in Peter's life.

That said, if stuff in the trailer rubs you the wrong way, that's totally cool. Especially of you can explain it as concisely and logically as you just did in this post (with the origin changes they're making).

But, I will say, if you're still holding out for a 100% faithful adaptation, I might want to slap you. Because by now - and like 30 superhero movies produced - it's pretty obvious there will never be an 100% accurate superhero movie.

[SoNicRaDiATioN]

When Andrew was revealed as the new Spider-Man in Cancun, I immediately thought he resembled Ditko's Peter.

Thankfully they went the Romita route with Gwen, Ditko's Gwen had a "queen of mean" look about her.

[amazingfantasy15]

Originally Posted by CConn

Well, obviously it's not going to be totally accurate to the source material. No live action superhero movie has been.

But personally, I concur with his thoughts on it seeming more accurate it tone to the early days of the Spider-Man comics. And I don't mean that everything is the same, but those little things about Spider-Man that were absent from the Raimi movies do seem to be there.

And he didn't just mention the Stacy's for the order in which Gwen appeared. He mentioned them for their overall portrayals. Spider-Man 3 totally ****ed both of those characters over and reduced them to little more than forgettable supporting characters. This new movie at least seems to have them more integrated in Peter's life.

That said, if stuff in the trailer rubs you the wrong way, that's totally cool. Especially of you can explain it as concisely and logically as you just did in this post (with the origin changes they're making).

But, I will say, if you're still holding out for a 100% faithful adaptation, I might want to slap you. Because by now - and like 30 superhero movies produced - it's pretty obvious there will never be an 100% accurate superhero movie.

I'm not asking for 100% faithful, but the themes in Spider-man's origin are the character's driving factor. Peter feels guilty, it's a guilt that will never leave him, his ego and arrogance killed the man who raised him. Looking for his parents past isn't a welcome addition to the origin in my mind. If they leave out the showbiz bit, it cheapens the origin, if Peter's mind is focused on finding the causes for his parent's death and misses stopping a robber, it's not quite as bad as letting the robber pass by as an f you to someone that's slighted him. The quote of "With Great Power comes Great Responsibility" will lose meaning if he was using his power to find the cause of his parents death, it could be a conspiracy, stopping important research, it's only responsible to find out what happened. Raimi's origin, while making changes, was accurate because it hit every important beat in the origin. From what I've seen and read of Webb's it doesn't.

[SoNicRaDiATioN]

This film is for you. Too bad. You'll always have Sam though.

[Web face]

Who said his searching for his parents is what keeps him from stopping the guy that murders Uncle Ben? From what I have seen, it seems as though Peter's ego and arrogance will be what kills the man that raised him.

[Leenie]

Let's see ... Fans of the Raimi films seem to be too simple and close-minded for their own good, and supporters of the Webb film seem to be too pretentious for their own good. There, did I offend both sides equally enough?

Like buttholes, opinions are something that everyone has ... That doesn't mean you should BE a butthole about your opinion though.

(Not saying this to a specific person, just pointing this out to people who are waaaay too worked up over people having different opinions).

[CConn]

Originally Posted by amazingfantasy15

I'm not asking for 100% faithful, but the themes in Spider-man's origin are the character's driving factor. Peter feels guilty, it's a guilt that will never leave him, his ego and arrogance killed the man who raised him. Looking for his parents past isn't a welcome addition to the origin in my mind. If they leave out the showbiz bit, it cheapens the origin, if Peter's mind is focused on finding the causes for his parent's death and misses stopping a robber, it's not quite as bad as letting the robber pass by as an f you to someone that's slighted him. The quote of "With Great Power comes Great Responsibility" will lose meaning if he was using his power to find the cause of his parents death, it could be a conspiracy, stopping important research, it's only responsible to find out what happened. Raimi's origin, while making changes, was accurate because it hit every important beat in the origin. From what I've seen and read of Webb's it doesn't.

How do you know he won't be in show business of some kind? How do you know they won't just have him not stop the robber because of some selfish reason? I don't think we've seen enough to say one way or the other.

[CConn]

That said, as I see more and more, I do see one potentially fatal flaw about the movie: This "untold story" business. On one hand, I think it could had some real depth to the character and the mythos and really give even greater meaning to the whole plot with Lizard and whatnot. And I get why they'd think that kind of thing is necessary in this day and age of TDK/X-Men First Class-type of superhero movies.

But at the same time, it does have shades of the age old comic writing blunder of retconning. I mean, wasn't Sins Past labeled as the same kind of "shocking untold story"? Generally, when writers go back and muck around with the origins, it rarely comes out well - at best it seems superfluous, at worst it's downright bad.

That said, that is a rule of comic writing; film is a bit different. And I would - obviously - hope/expect the "untold history" to not be anywhere near as insulting as Sins Past. But still...I could see how that might rub people the wrong way.

[henzINNIT]

I fear this intrigue about Peter's father is going to severely diminish his relationship with his uncle, and later the impact of Ben's death.

[Chris Wallace]

We already felt the impact of Uncle Ben's death 10 years ago; they're going in a different direction.

[Troy_Parker]

Nope.

"The first domino in the story is the parents. He goes out looking for his father and finds himself. That’s my tagline. But Uncle Ben, of course, and his death… well, you have to see the movie!" Webb teased. "But, there’s three elements that Marvel was very protective of and I think are very important parts of the Spider-Man origin story. Uncle Ben’s death transforms him and has a huge impact on him. That’s an incredibly important part of the mythology. I would never subvert that. That’s all I’ll say about that"."

But hey, I can understand your rage though. After all, this isn't a Raimi and co movie.

[Leenie]

Originally Posted by Troy_Parker

Nope.

"The first domino in the story is the parents. He goes out looking for his father and finds himself. That’s my tagline. But Uncle Ben, of course, and his death… well, you have to see the movie!" Webb teased. "But, there’s three elements that Marvel was very protective of and I think are very important parts of the Spider-Man origin story. Uncle Ben’s death transforms him and has a huge impact on him. That’s an incredibly important part of the mythology. I would never subvert that. That’s all I’ll say about that"."

But hey, I can understand your rage though. After all, this isn't a Raimi and co movie.

Not gonna lie, that quote made me feel a LOT better about this movie. I still personally feel that the movie is unnecessary at this time (still feel it's way too soon for a reboot, but hey, Sony needed to keep the rights ), but at least the very core of Spider-Man is going to stay intact. Good.

[SpaceWay2009]

Originally Posted by Troy_Parker

Nope.

"The first domino in the story is the parents. He goes out looking for his father and finds himself. That’s my tagline. But Uncle Ben, of course, and his death… well, you have to see the movie!" Webb teased. "But, there’s three elements that Marvel was very protective of and I think are very important parts of the Spider-Man origin story. Uncle Ben’s death transforms him and has a huge impact on him. That’s an incredibly important part of the mythology. I would never subvert that. That’s all I’ll say about that"."

But hey, I can understand your rage though. After all, this isn't a Raimi and co movie.

Thanks for posting that. That should settle down the people who think Uncle Ben won't die.

[roach]

that does make me feel better