Avengers vs. X-Men: 2012 Event - Part 1

[runawayboulder]

Originally Posted by franklin richards

remember how everyone who worked for jim shooter hated him? This is why. The guy made people work.

^^^^TRUTH

Marvel will never have a Shooter type running things ever again though.

[Panthro]

Originally Posted by Mad Ones

Jean is still strongly represented in other forms of media outside of the comics, way more than Emma. So I don't understand it from a marketing standpoint. And Jean and Emma can coexist. They did it wonderfully during Morrisson's run.

Before Jean got fridged.

Originally Posted by Franklin Richards

Remember how everyone who worked for Jim Shooter hated him? This is why. The guy made people work.

I thought people hated Jim Shooter because he had a belligerent mean streak when it came to dealing with writers and was prone to vetoing the more natural progression of certain storylines simply because they didn't jive with his sensibilities.

[Franklin Richards]

You mean he didn't let "Architects" get away with ignoring continuity and artist not getting their sheets in on time? Cause that's what was really pissing them off. That and the fact that he was their boss instead of vice versa?

He may have been a dbag but he wasn't getting paid to be their friend. And he damn sure wasn't getting paid to be runover by a bunch of "artistes".

"You got those pages ready?"
"No."
"Get Simonson and Buscema in here. They'll finish it."

[KingMob]

Just based on what I've read about the Shooter years, it seems like he improved the company, quality wise, and tried to make the company more professional. He was probably a d*** though.

[roach]

probably a d*** but books wouldn't be late or continuity messed up

[KingMob]

Exactly, I'm not faulting him for being a d***. Someone should have been more of a d*** to Bendis, Heinberg, or JMS.

[Manic]

Originally Posted by KingMob

Exactly, I'm not faulting him for being a d***. Someone should have been more of a d*** to Bendis, Heinberg, or JMS.

and Cassaday

[roach]

Marvel could use a hard charger to stir the pot a bit

[TheCorpulent1]

Well, obviously, Quesada's not gonna hire somebody like that. He's one of those "artistes" that Shooter would've f***ed with back in the day.

[Panthro]

Originally Posted by Franklin Richards

You mean he didn't let "Architects" get away with ignoring continuity and artist not getting their sheets in on time? Cause that's what was really pissing them off. That and the fact that he was their boss instead of vice versa?

I was referring more to some of the changes he forced Chris Claremont to make to his X-plans, like the really bad retcon they came up with when they decided to bring Jean Grey back after Dark Phoenix (only to have Quesada & Morrison drop another bridge on her years later).

[Franklin Richards]

Have you read Legacy? Isn't that the one where Claremont finished his X-Plans? How'd that work out?

Bringing Jean Grey back was inevitable. She's the PHOENIX ffs! Seperating her and the Phoenix Force in retrospect is a smart plan. It's not just a mutant's power. It's a cosmic entity. To anchor it to JUST Jean Grey is really limiting it's power.

But that's my opinion and the opinion of Shooter.

[Mulholland '49]

Some of this artwork is just terrible...

[roach]

are they dodging strawberry wafers???

[Manic]

I think they're leaping through a field of giant pink flowers.

[runawayboulder]

JRJR has been horrible the past few years.

And FYI, Kurt Busiek came up with the idea for Jean Grey's original resurrection. He was living on Roger Stern's couch and passed the idea to him and Stern passed it to Shooter. Shooter had an edict that Jean could only come back is she in some way was absolved of the casualties committed when she was the Dark Phoenix.

[TheCorpulent1]

That seems reasonable. A body count that high is hard to overlook and still consider the character a hero. Look at all the troubles the Scarlet Witch is having right now.

[runawayboulder]

Doctor Doom took credit for that in a throw away line. Even the Avengers and X-Men missed it.

[TheCorpulent1]

The Vision clearly ain't buying what Doom's selling.

[Alex Summers]

The same thing happened with Hal Jordan. I wish Johns just kept Hal as some dude that went psycho, rather than have some cosmic space bug manipulating him into doing things.

[runawayboulder]

Originally Posted by TheCorpulent1

The Vision clearly ain't buying what Doom's selling.

He wasn't in Children's Crusade so maybe no one ever explained it to him...?

[CaptainStacy]

Originally Posted by runawayboulder

JRJR has been horrible the past few years.

Agreed. The last time his stuff really rocked was when he and Straczynski were on ASM, several years ago...

[kguillou]

So do we all think Jean's coming back after this?

[Captain Marvel]

Originally Posted by KingMob

Just based on what I've read about the Shooter years, it seems like he improved the company, quality wise, and tried to make the company more professional. He was probably a d*** though.

Shooter's the reason why Valiant was so great in the early days, too. Unfortunately he got ousted from there and Valiant quickly turned into a steaming pile of crap.

[Havok83]

Id rather not think about that

[runawayboulder]

Originally Posted by kguillou

So do we all think Jean's coming back after this?

I think she might be.