The SuperHeroHype Forums  

Go Back   The SuperHeroHype Forums > Batman > Batman Begins

View Poll Results: The Best Super hero Origin Movie ?
Batman Begins 42 56.00%
Captain America 5 6.67%
Iron Man 9 12.00%
Spider Man 5 6.67%
Superman The Movie 14 18.67%
Voters: 75. You may not vote on this poll

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 03-03-2012, 12:57 PM   #176
CConn
Fountainhead of culture.
 
CConn's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Peter North's Southern Headquarters
Posts: 57,587
Default Re: Batman Begins Best Origin Movie ever ?

Hm. You're right about Thor.

But I disagree with Spider-Man. Spider-Man was really no different than Superman: The Movie structurally. And, on top of that, it really didn't add anything new or inventive in terms of sub plotting or character progression. If anything, it was merely STM's paradigm simplified.

Although it has it's flaws, and still uses STM's plot stucture, BB at least did something new and partially inventive with his deep introspection and progression of Bruce Wayne as a character. I watched it recently, and the thing that really stood out to me was how, by the end of the film, you really could see Bruce transform into a different, more mature character altogether.

Having also watched Spider-Man recently, I didn't see character progression anywhere near that deep. Well, except for Harry. His character in general was probably the highlight of the film.

__________________
It's like a non-consecutive 24-hour dance party.
CConn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-03-2012, 01:05 PM   #177
Godzilla2014
Deadpan Snarker
 
Godzilla2014's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 6,844
Default Re: Batman Begins Best Origin Movie ever ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Falcone View Post
I liked Thor. It takes the superhero origin formula and puts it into a unique environment. I think Spiderman is, by itself, a better film than BB. It really set the paradigm for origin stories in the 21st century.

But if you look at BB as in the first chapter of TDK saga, it makes much more sense has merit by that standard. The themes aren't as deep in Spiderman, but it's engaging, well-cast, and the action is tops. Also, despite a lighthearted atmosphere, it still does have a little substance.
Batman Begins is far superior to Spider-Man, because it has an actual throughline from origin to first adventure, a much stronger plot, much better villain(s), and it does a far better job of exploring its protagonist.

__________________
Fan of Christopher Nolan's Batman!
Quote:
Originally Posted by KRIM View Post
This post was brought to you by Godzilla.

http://i.imgur.com/6FNiJ.jpg

The more you know.
Godzilla2014 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-12-2012, 01:20 PM   #178
Paulette
Newbie First Class
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Posts: 18
Default Re: Batman Begins Best Origin Movie ever ?

I think Batman Begins was a very good surprise (I saw it after TDK) and it is a pity that it should be generally so underrated.

Paulette is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-12-2012, 06:54 PM   #179
Brain Damage
Everything Under the Sun
 
Brain Damage's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Boston
Posts: 2,861
Default Re: Batman Begins Best Origin Movie ever ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Godzilla2014 View Post
Batman Begins is far superior to Spider-Man, because it has an actual throughline from origin to first adventure, a much stronger plot, much better villain(s), and it does a far better job of exploring its protagonist.
This. This is actually a problem with most origin films, where the origin is just something that needs to be gotten out of the way before the actual movie can start. Batman Begins kept you invested in the story from the getco, long before Bruce donned the suit and made what had come before that moment relevant to the overall story.

__________________
WHO APPOINTED THE BATMAN?

Free Original Music
Brain Damage is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-22-2012, 02:35 PM   #180
Spideyisthelaw9
Side-Kick
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Posts: 99
Default Re: Batman Begins Best Origin Movie ever ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brain Damage View Post
This. This is actually a problem with most origin films, where the origin is just something that needs to be gotten out of the way before the actual movie can start. Batman Begins kept you invested in the story from the getco, long before Bruce donned the suit and made what had come before that moment relevant to the overall story.
Agree.
However I think Batman Begin's origin is the best one, because it shows you how the hero progresses. At first Batman is not invincible, but he steadily becomes better. Instead in Spider-Man, he soon learns how to webswing and how to do things his powers let him to. I have to admit it, this is one of the weak point of the Raimi's trilogy.

Spideyisthelaw9 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-29-2012, 04:44 PM   #181
MarvelKnight
Side-Kick
 
MarvelKnight's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Posts: 2,581
Default Re: Batman Begins Best Origin Movie ever ?

Batman Begins and Spider-Man 1 are a tie for me.

MarvelKnight is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-06-2012, 01:09 PM   #182
Cain
"West West Y'all"
 
Cain's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Live from New York
Posts: 4,967
Default Re: Batman Begins Best Origin Movie ever ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Paulette View Post
I think Batman Begins was a very good surprise (I saw it after TDK) and it is a pity that it should be generally so underrated.
It's not underrated though. It's always been given it's well deserved credit and proved influential to movie franchises outside of the superhero movie subgenre. It's often considered the best of the post-X-Men superhero movie resurgence.

__________________
Pull list: Saga, Thief of Thieves, The Manhattan Projects, Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles, Harbinger, X-O Manowar, Archer & Armstrong, Shadowman, Green Lantern, Red Lanterns, Justice League 3000, Action Comics, Superman/Wonder Woman, Batman & Robin, Batman, Wonder Woman, Aquaman, Red Hood & The Outlaws, Swamp Thing, All-Star Western, Earth 2, Daredevil, All-New X-Men
Cain is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-06-2012, 02:00 PM   #183
El Payaso
Banned User
 
El Payaso's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Rubbing your rhubarb.
Posts: 15,263
Default Re: Batman Begins Best Origin Movie ever ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cain View Post
It's not underrated though. It's always been given it's well deserved credit and proved influential to movie franchises outside of the superhero movie subgenre. It's often considered the best of the post-X-Men superhero movie resurgence.
What non-superhero movie was influenced by BB?

El Payaso is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-06-2012, 02:05 PM   #184
Cain
"West West Y'all"
 
Cain's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Live from New York
Posts: 4,967
Default Re: Batman Begins Best Origin Movie ever ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by El Payaso View Post
What non-superhero movie was influenced by BB?

The James Bond franchise famously took the route it did in 2006 because of the producer's admiration of BB's success as a reboot. Prior to that they were even considering making CR a looser adaptation still starring Brosnan. Conversely the older James Bond movies have also been highly influential to Nolan's Batman series.

__________________
Pull list: Saga, Thief of Thieves, The Manhattan Projects, Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles, Harbinger, X-O Manowar, Archer & Armstrong, Shadowman, Green Lantern, Red Lanterns, Justice League 3000, Action Comics, Superman/Wonder Woman, Batman & Robin, Batman, Wonder Woman, Aquaman, Red Hood & The Outlaws, Swamp Thing, All-Star Western, Earth 2, Daredevil, All-New X-Men
Cain is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-06-2012, 05:02 PM   #185
El Payaso
Banned User
 
El Payaso's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Rubbing your rhubarb.
Posts: 15,263
Default Re: Batman Begins Best Origin Movie ever ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cain View Post
The James Bond franchise famously took the route it did in 2006 because of the producer's admiration of BB's success as a reboot. Prior to that they were even considering making CR a looser adaptation still starring Brosnan. Conversely the older James Bond movies have also been highly influential to Nolan's Batman series.
I didn't know that. But action and dialogue-wise I choose Casino Royale over BB easily.

El Payaso is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-06-2012, 05:24 PM   #186
Cain
"West West Y'all"
 
Cain's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Live from New York
Posts: 4,967
Default Re: Batman Begins Best Origin Movie ever ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by El Payaso View Post
I didn't know that. But action and dialogue-wise I choose Casino Royale over BB easily.
Oh yeah me too.

__________________
Pull list: Saga, Thief of Thieves, The Manhattan Projects, Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles, Harbinger, X-O Manowar, Archer & Armstrong, Shadowman, Green Lantern, Red Lanterns, Justice League 3000, Action Comics, Superman/Wonder Woman, Batman & Robin, Batman, Wonder Woman, Aquaman, Red Hood & The Outlaws, Swamp Thing, All-Star Western, Earth 2, Daredevil, All-New X-Men
Cain is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-07-2012, 04:33 PM   #187
CConn
Fountainhead of culture.
 
CConn's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Peter North's Southern Headquarters
Posts: 57,587
Default Re: Batman Begins Best Origin Movie ever ?

Eh, Casino Royale and BB work on different levels for me. BB definitely has more depth and inherent complexity, whereas Casino Royale thrives on action and the brutality of Craig's performance.

But yeah, they definitely influenced each other in a lot of ways. On Her Majesty's Secret Service is one of Nolan's favorite movies, and you could even see how it influenced him in Inception.

__________________
It's like a non-consecutive 24-hour dance party.
CConn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-10-2012, 03:55 AM   #188
Britains Finest
I fell asleep!
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: UK
Posts: 34
Default Re: Batman Begins Best Origin Movie ever ?

Just read on Empire magazine's website that Guy Pearce was originally up for the role of Ra's Al Ghul, but after discussing it with Nolan they both felt he was too young for the role.
Quote:
Piers M says: Huge fan! Thanks for Memento, L.A. Confidential and Animal Kingdom (to name a few). My question is: with Christopher Nolan continually using many of the same cast members from his films did he ever talk to you about a role in any of the Batman films?

We did have a discussion about one of the roles in the first film, but we both decided and agreed that I was too young, so Liam Neeson played the role.
I've not not heard this mentioned before, is this common knowledge?

http://www.empireonline.com/intervie...w.asp?IID=1487

Britains Finest is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-10-2012, 07:01 AM   #189
El Payaso
Banned User
 
El Payaso's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Rubbing your rhubarb.
Posts: 15,263
Default Re: Batman Begins Best Origin Movie ever ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by CConn View Post
BB definitely has more depth and inherent complexity,
Or it wanted to have.

El Payaso is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-10-2012, 04:43 PM   #190
CConn
Fountainhead of culture.
 
CConn's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Peter North's Southern Headquarters
Posts: 57,587
Default Re: Batman Begins Best Origin Movie ever ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by El Payaso View Post
Or it wanted to have.
No, it legitimately did.

It just conveyed it in an overstated and obvious way.

__________________
It's like a non-consecutive 24-hour dance party.
CConn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-10-2012, 04:53 PM   #191
El Payaso
Banned User
 
El Payaso's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Rubbing your rhubarb.
Posts: 15,263
Default Re: Batman Begins Best Origin Movie ever ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by CConn View Post
No, it legitimately did.

It just conveyed it in an overstated and obvious way.
In other words, it (verbally) explained to death that it had depth and complexity.

El Payaso is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-10-2012, 04:58 PM   #192
CConn
Fountainhead of culture.
 
CConn's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Peter North's Southern Headquarters
Posts: 57,587
Default Re: Batman Begins Best Origin Movie ever ?

Exactly.

__________________
It's like a non-consecutive 24-hour dance party.
CConn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-16-2012, 03:54 AM   #193
Mr. Immortal
Homo s. supreme
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: The end of time and space.
Posts: 176
Default Re: Batman Begins Best Origin Movie ever ?

I think Batman Begins, out of all those choices, is actually the worst origin story by far. Most of us likely came from comics so it's hard to see the movie without any bias. But if you look objectively, there's one gigantic problem with BB: Nolan's Bruce Wayne/Batman is utterly pathetic.

If you really take a good look at the story, you can barely even call Nolan's Batman a superhero. He doesn't come up with the idea of creating a figure people can fear, Ra's does. He needs constant pep talks from both Rachel and Alfred because of his cripplingly low intelligence and aptitude for failure. He doesn't create any of his gear, Lucius makes all of it. He doesn't really show any kind of detective skills or strategic ability other than buying his own stocks then acting like a smug jerk about it. In Nolanverse, Bruce is basically a thug with superior equipment. (That he had no hand in creating.) So basically, because Nolan's Batman can do nothing by himself and shows virtually no heroic qualities other than willingly getting his ass handed to him when testing out his equipment, I don't see this as much of an ''origin'' story.

From all that, you'd probably think I didn't like BB. But I actually do, a lot. I just can't bring myself to see it as a Superhero movie or even a Batman movie because of how completely different it is than the source material.

Mr. Immortal is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-16-2012, 08:15 AM   #194
El Payaso
Banned User
 
El Payaso's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Rubbing your rhubarb.
Posts: 15,263
Default Re: Batman Begins Best Origin Movie ever ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Immortal View Post
I think Batman Begins, out of all those choices, is actually the worst origin story by far. Most of us likely came from comics so it's hard to see the movie without any bias. But if you look objectively, there's one gigantic problem with BB: Nolan's Bruce Wayne/Batman is utterly pathetic.

If you really take a good look at the story, you can barely even call Nolan's Batman a superhero. He doesn't come up with the idea of creating a figure people can fear, Ra's does. He needs constant pep talks from both Rachel and Alfred because of his cripplingly low intelligence and aptitude for failure. He doesn't create any of his gear, Lucius makes all of it. He doesn't really show any kind of detective skills or strategic ability other than buying his own stocks then acting like a smug jerk about it. In Nolanverse, Bruce is basically a thug with superior equipment. (That he had no hand in creating.) So basically, because Nolan's Batman can do nothing by himself and shows virtually no heroic qualities other than willingly getting his ass handed to him when testing out his equipment, I don't see this as much of an ''origin'' story.

From all that, you'd probably think I didn't like BB. But I actually do, a lot. I just can't bring myself to see it as a Superhero movie or even a Batman movie because of how completely different it is than the source material.


I don't hear that much. But well, Goyer felt like he needed to verbally explain everything through speeches or very informative dialogues. My favourite worst is the monorail conversation between Bruce and his father. That's the pinnacle of unnatural dialogue.

Another thing that left me 'huh' was the fact that Joe Chill was immediately captured. Traditionally it's the killer going unpunished what makes Bruce thinki 'this gotta change,' but here he sees that police and institutions work. He just changes hius mind later on when he's in his 20's and Chill is released.

El Payaso is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-16-2012, 08:20 PM   #195
Elevator Man
Side-Kick
 
Elevator Man's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Posts: 1,933
Default Re: Batman Begins Best Origin Movie ever ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Immortal View Post
If you really take a good look at the story, you can barely even call Nolan's Batman a superhero. He doesn't come up with the idea of creating a figure people can fear, Ra's does. He needs constant pep talks from both Rachel and Alfred because of his cripplingly low intelligence and aptitude for failure. He doesn't create any of his gear, Lucius makes all of it. He doesn't really show any kind of detective skills or strategic ability other than buying his own stocks then acting like a smug jerk about it. In Nolanverse, Bruce is basically a thug with superior equipment. (That he had no hand in creating.) So basically, because Nolan's Batman can do nothing by himself and shows virtually no heroic qualities other than willingly getting his ass handed to him when testing out his equipment, I don't see this as much of an ''origin'' story.
This is probably the biggest problem of the many problems I have with BB. You summed it up perfectly in that paragraph.

Elevator Man is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-16-2012, 08:58 PM   #196
CConn
Fountainhead of culture.
 
CConn's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Peter North's Southern Headquarters
Posts: 57,587
Default Re: Batman Begins Best Origin Movie ever ?

Ugh. No he didn't. It was cursory summation of Bruce Wayne's characterization that totally ignored the more subtle and defining points of his character arc in BB.

I have no problem with people dissing BB - old Payaso does a decent job of that - but that paragraph's just irritatingly low on intellect.

__________________
It's like a non-consecutive 24-hour dance party.
CConn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-18-2012, 09:22 AM   #197
CLARKY
Side-Kick
 
CLARKY's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: france
Posts: 2,646
Default Re: Batman Begins Best Origin Movie ever ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Immortal View Post
I think Batman Begins, out of all those choices, is actually the worst origin story by far. Most of us likely came from comics so it's hard to see the movie without any bias. But if you look objectively, there's one gigantic problem with BB: Nolan's Bruce Wayne/Batman is utterly pathetic.

If you really take a good look at the story, you can barely even call Nolan's Batman a superhero. He doesn't come up with the idea of creating a figure people can fear, Ra's does. He needs constant pep talks from both Rachel and Alfred because of his cripplingly low intelligence and aptitude for failure. He doesn't create any of his gear, Lucius makes all of it. He doesn't really show any kind of detective skills or strategic ability other than buying his own stocks then acting like a smug jerk about it. In Nolanverse, Bruce is basically a thug with superior equipment. (That he had no hand in creating.) So basically, because Nolan's Batman can do nothing by himself and shows virtually no heroic qualities other than willingly getting his ass handed to him when testing out his equipment, I don't see this as much of an ''origin'' story.
I just can't bring myself to see it as a Superhero movie or even a Batman movie because of how completely different it is than the source material.
I find your comment a bit simplistic, but in general, yeah, I agree with all this. It is something that I found weird. Bruce was not so clever and always needed someone to show him the next step. I didnot see the character as a superhero at all, nor really a batman story, just a guy who is lucky enough to have all the stuff he needs.
Quote:
Originally Posted by El Payaso View Post
But well, Goyer felt like he needed to verbally explain everything through speeches or very informative dialogues. My favourite worst is the monorail conversation between Bruce and his father. That's the pinnacle of unnatural dialogue.
Yes indeed. I completely agree with this. Too much useless symbolism maybe?

CLARKY is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-29-2012, 09:03 PM   #198
weezerspider
Side-Kick
 
weezerspider's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 2,860
Default Re: Batman Begins Best Origin Movie ever ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by El Payaso View Post
What non-superhero movie was influenced by BB?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cain View Post
The James Bond franchise famously took the route it did in 2006 because of the producer's admiration of BB's success as a reboot. Prior to that they were even considering making CR a looser adaptation still starring Brosnan. Conversely the older James Bond movies have also been highly influential to Nolan's Batman series.
The directors of Casino Royale, Terminator Salvation, Rise of The Planet Of The Apes, Sherlock Holmes, and GI Joe all mentioned BB as a big influence. In the super hero genre, its influence is obvious. Oh yeah, the new Robocop film in development has mentioned BB as an influence as well.

__________________
"If you figure a way to live without serving a master, any master, then let the rest of us know, will you? For you'd be the first person in the history of the world."
-LANCASTER DODD
weezerspider is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-29-2012, 09:22 PM   #199
Elevator Man
Side-Kick
 
Elevator Man's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Posts: 1,933
Default Re: Batman Begins Best Origin Movie ever ?

And Nolan used S:TM as an influence for BB not just "Blade Runner".

Elevator Man is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-29-2012, 10:36 PM   #200
CConn
Fountainhead of culture.
 
CConn's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Peter North's Southern Headquarters
Posts: 57,587
Default Re: Batman Begins Best Origin Movie ever ?

Well, obvious. STM's plot structure has been used now on BB, SM1, Iron Man, Captain America, and more.

__________________
It's like a non-consecutive 24-hour dance party.
CConn is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 01:01 PM.

monitoring_string = "dee460792f24517621e3ca080805de7e"
Contact Us - Mobile - SuperHeroHype - ComingSoon.net - Shock Till You Drop - Lost Password - Clear Cookies - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service - Top - AdChoices


Powered by vBulletin®
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
SuperHeroHype.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. 2014 All Rights Reserved.