Black Superheroes Movies - Part 2

[terry78]

Originally Posted by baerrtt

Regarding Denzel the blame can be laid on him entirely. A love scene was filmed between himself and Mimi Rogers in THE MIGHTY QUINN, one of his first lead roles, and when the picture was tested the story goes, which he has admitted since is true, that black females at the screening started booing. Shaken up by this he asked the studio, MGM, to cut the scene out.

A few years after that he turned down a movie called LOVE FIELD with Michelle Pfeifer which originally had love scenes between the character he was offered and her's (his exact reason for not wanting to do it) which reportedly upset Michelle and led to the producers excising them from the script which by then was too late as he had moved on to another project. Also he rejected the characters he and Julia played in THE PELICAN BRIEF getting together earlier in the film as originally scripted because he didn't find it believable (or at least that was his excuse) that the Roberts character would move on that quickly from her lover's death. Conversely Wesley Snipes had on screen love scenes with Jennifer Lopez (MONEY TRAIN) and Nastassja Kinski (ONE NIGHT STAND) plus a white love interest in US MARSHALLS.

And trust me my posting history will show on this thread that I'm with you on regression.

I live in the UK but we have had a new US show debut over here called BREAKOUT KINGS which is headlined by Laz Alfonso a black actor.

Oh, they killed his ass off.

[Mondragon]

doubled...

[Mondragon]

They know their stuff...
Part 1

VIDEO-CLick to Watch!:

Part 2

VIDEO-CLick to Watch!:

[MessiahDecoy123]

While it is refreshing to see black women discuss superheroes, I was not impressed by their "insights".

[DarKush]

Originally Posted by Anubis

I grew up with em.

My uncles, my cousins. Every other word out their mouths was the white man trying to keep us down this, and black people need to do that. I mean, It's annoying. Nobodies calling YOU annoying. Just some people, who make it about everything. I'm a guy who happens to be black. It's part of who I am, but it's not all that I am. And I think there are some who see it the other way around. And that.... is obnoxious.

I didn't take it personally. I was thinking more along the lines that this 'unreasonable pro-black militancy' thing is more of an exaggeration than what I have seen and heard as a black person living in America. Though I will say that race is discussed quite a bit at times, depending on the situation, and at other times it can be an elephant in the room.

For me, since race has played such a major role in the black experience in this country, talking about race isn't something that I honestly find annoying.

I'm black, but I don't 'happen' to be black. It wasn't an accident. Now if that does make me obnoxious to you, I can't help that.

[Anubis]

Yeah, that is pretty obnoxious.....adding that "Accident" part. But I forgive ya cuz you're so cute.

Anyway, yesterday, I was at work. I was helping this black dude out when in walks a white couple, then the black dude starts in with "Aw man, what's with this white ho" and "Well, here comes Billy Bob Thornton too." Loudly. Completely unwarranted, and in front of the couples kids. Point is, there's being proud of your heritage, and then there's just being a bigot. Some people are just racist ass-hats.

[DarKush]

Originally Posted by CConn

No, I know they don't. Because I've spoken to a lot of them about it. We've talked about racism - both in a joking sense and more seriously - we've talked about cultural influences and similar subjects. They pretty much don't care. Like I eluded to in my previous post, them being black is treated the same way as I'm treated for being Italian or Irish.
Eh, it depends on the person. A lot of people of all minorities (blacks, gays, etc) will often let themselves become more of a stereotype than an individual. I've seen it before. And it's a shame, really.

[quotw]I disagree with you about the type of black Americans that are being 'ignored', in Hollywood. The colorless, race neutral black character is very popular. And the black characters that talk about race or blackness after often mocked or marginalized in some other way.

You misunderstand me a bit. I know that character is very popular as a supporting cast member, the funny guy who's with the white protagonist, or whatnot. What I was referring to was blacks in a starring role. And I think, in that respect, they usually opt to go with the definitely "black" character in personality than just someone who happens to be black.[/QUOTE]


Look I can't discount your experiences, same with Anubis, but I don't believe we have reached a point yet when I can believe this 'we're all just the same' or 'we're all treated like everyone else' when it comes to race in this country, when the data showing deep racial disparities in areas like criminal justice, housing, jobs, and education disputes that.

And I don't agree with you that some people become their stereotypes. For one who is doing the stereotyping? And two, how exactly do you become a stereotype? And do white heterosexual males ever become their stereotypes?

We are individuals, but we are also parts of groups, and there has been a history in this country where people were judged as groups and I think that continues, so just seeing only part of our identity and refusing to acknowledge the multiple kinds of identities we have I don't think really provides any answers when we are confronted with issues that our group identities/experiences might cause us to debate or divide over.

[DarKush]

Originally Posted by Anubis

Yeah, that is pretty obnoxious.....adding that "Accident" part. But I forgive ya cuz you're so cute.

Anyway, yesterday, I was at work. I was helping this black dude out when in walks a white couple, then the black dude starts in with "Aw man, what's with this white ho" and "Well, here comes Billy Bob Thornton too." Loudly. Completely unwarranted, and in front of the couples kids. Point is, there's being proud of your heritage, and then there's just being a bigot. Some people are just racist ass-hats.

I don't condone what mean spirited or prejudicial things people say like that, but how widespread is that in the black community or the white community for that matter? Also, some of the outrageous things some black say doesn't or shouldn't be lumped in with people who have a deep respect and revere black history and culture and want to see more people of color and/or different depictions in the media.

I think there is a tendency to try to dismiss this request, as unreasonable, and then people use some of the more specious kinds of examples, like you listed above, to make the desire to see more diversity as a joke or a demand. Not saying that's you, even though I did use your example. I was more talking about the anti-diversity media/internet folks.

[DarKush]

Originally Posted by terry78

Oh, they killed his ass off.

You know, I've read about Denzel's disinterest in doing love scenes with white leads. I do think there is some truth in the negative reaction on the part of some black female fans of his to that, but I also have to wonder if Denzel was telling the whole story. Maybe he knew what time it was and realized he could get farther by jettisoning the white love interest because he knew Hollywood didn't want to go there.

And to be fair to his black female fans, there didn't seem to be a hue and cry when he did that film with the Indian actress based in Mississippi, or the films with Eva Mendes as his love interest (particularly Training Day), none of them were black. And when you look at the majority of Denzel's films he has largely been a sexless character. It seems he only gets his groove on, or it is implied, in Spike Lee films.

And Will Smith, Morgan Freeman, Samuel L. Jackson, now Idris Elba have not expressed a sensitivity to the 'sensitivies' of black female fans and yet many of them are just as sexless/neutered in their films as Denzel has been.

[chamber-music]

For some reason Black Women seem less likely to get annoyed by black men with women of another race as long as its not white women.

Anyone see the whole racial storm thats blown up in Jamaica after a photo of Usain Bolt with his girlfriend who happens to be white kissing.

[terry78]

They basically say as long as they're black or brown(or to a lesser extent, yellow) we don't care AS much. White and black are like the extreme ends of the spectrum when it comes to interracial anything. You date one of those, it suddenly is all political.

[baerrtt]

Originally Posted by DarKush

You know, I've read about Denzel's disinterest in doing love scenes with white leads. I do think there is some truth in the negative reaction on the part of some black female fans of his to that, but I also have to wonder if Denzel was telling the whole story. Maybe he knew what time it was and realized he could get farther by jettisoning the white love interest because he knew Hollywood didn't want to go there.

And to be fair to his black female fans, there didn't seem to be a hue and cry when he did that film with the Indian actress based in Mississippi, or the films with Eva Mendes as his love interest (particularly Training Day), none of them were black. And when you look at the majority of Denzel's films he has largely been a sexless character. It seems he only gets his groove on, or it is implied, in Spike Lee films.

And Will Smith, Morgan Freeman, Samuel L. Jackson, now Idris Elba have not expressed a sensitivity to the 'sensitivies' of black female fans and yet many of them are just as sexless/neutered in their films as Denzel has been.

Surely if he was being offered scripts with white love interests, packaged with love scenes, and turned them down that was entirely due to him and not Hollywood surely? MISSISIPI MASALA besides was a very small movie barely distributed in the States whilst the ones I've mentioned were all major motion pictures, also he has no sex scene with Mendes in TRAINING DAY.

One thing that has to be considered sadly is that the industry, or at least enough open minded execs, directors etc, during the 1990s was 'ready' and certain black actors like Denzel in positions to be superstars weren't. Snipes, as mentioned, was hardly neutered or sexless (with BLADE in terms of the character it made sense), Murphy wasn't, Laurence Fishburne wasn't, even Whoopi Goldberg wasn't.

[baerrtt]

Originally Posted by terry78

They basically say as long as they're black or brown(or to a lesser extent, yellow) we don't care AS much. White and black are like the extreme ends of the spectrum when it comes to interracial anything. You date one of those, it suddenly is all political.

Yet it amazes me that you have things on tv now like 90210 where the Dixon character has had white girlfriends and no one has said..well what they might have been saying 20 years ago.

[Anubis]

Maybe American society is growing up.....very, very, very slowly.

[chamber-music]

Originally Posted by baerrtt

Yet it amazes me that you have things on tv now like 90210 where the Dixon character has had white girlfriends and no one has said..well what they might have been saying 20 years ago.

I think its demographics as well. 90210 is aimed at teens to twenty somethings.

On House which is aimed at a older demographis had Olivia Wilde and Omar Epps kissed and hook up they got tons of racist hate mail.

Also depends on which country its broadcast. Parminder Nagra character on ER married an African American guy and was treated normally where as in the UK that pairing would be more taboo.

[RogueDK]

Originally Posted by chamber-music

For some reason Black Women seem less likely to get annoyed by black men with women of another race as long as its not white women.

Until the revolving door called double standard swings open. When "Something New" came out a few years back, I remember alot of women in theatres and my workplace went all "you go, girl!" Short memory I guess...
I'm a subscriber to the live & let live theory; as long as it's not harmful to others, why get up in arms over it. You date who you want to, we're all people.

When I was 5-6 years old, I remember my grandmother going ballistic with me for kissing my young white, blonde swimming instructor on the cheek (I was aiming for her mouth TBH but I wasn't fast enough). I got in trouble more for having the audacity to kiss a white woman than the fact that she was a woman in a position of authority.
Had the woman been black or brown, she wouldn't have said a word and chalked it up to being "cute"..
Even at 6, I didn't care because she was pretty and always smelled good but that didn't stop my granny from gettin' in my ass...but it was worth it.

My grandfather really didn't have a problem with this per se, but he backed her to keep the peace.

Television played a big part in me doing that because they relay this thought that only white women are desirable; that's what we mainly see. I didn't know that at the time but I was just hellbent on trying one myself.

[semper]

Originally Posted by baerrtt

Regarding Denzel the blame can be laid on him entirely. A love scene was filmed between himself and Mimi Rogers in THE MIGHTY QUINN, one of his first lead roles, and when the picture was tested the story goes, which he has admitted since is true, that black females at the screening started booing. Shaken up by this he asked the studio, MGM, to cut the scene out.

A few years after that he turned down a movie called LOVE FIELD with Michelle Pfeifer which originally had love scenes between the character he was offered and her's (his exact reason for not wanting to do it) which reportedly upset Michelle and led to the producers excising them from the script which by then was too late as he had moved on to another project. Also he rejected the characters he and Julia played in THE PELICAN BRIEF getting together earlier in the film as originally scripted because he didn't find it believable (or at least that was his excuse) that the Roberts character would move on that quickly from her lover's death. Conversely Wesley Snipes had on screen love scenes with Jennifer Lopez (MONEY TRAIN) and Nastassja Kinski (ONE NIGHT STAND) plus a white love interest in US MARSHALLS.

And trust me my posting history will show on this thread that I'm with you on regression.

I live in the UK but we have had a new US show debut over here called BREAKOUT KINGS which is headlined by Laz Alfonso a black actor.

Actuallly, Denzel said that the scene in The Mighty Quinn was cut, because in his words, "Black women hated the scene. White men hated the scene".

Washington never laid responsibility soley at the feet of black women. White guys back then (and maybe still today) did not want to see handsome black Denzel getting jiggy with their white wimmin'. He was trying to build a career as the first truly viable dramatic African-American leading man since Sidney Poitier. You don't do that by totally alienating the core audience of mainstream films (white men) or the black women who turned him into a sex symbol.

Washington is not an idiot. He takes risks in his career, but not foolish, needless ones. He'll do the interracial stuff in his Broadyway plays (he was kissing a white actress called Jessica Hecht for 5 months when he did Julius Ceasar in 2005. Hecht played his wife) or in non-commercial or independent type films (He Got Game etc)....but in an action thriller designed to draw the widest possible mainstream audience? What would be the point.

Snipes was a fool. Even before his tax evasion jail time, his career was in DTV hell. Black women stopped supporting him because he kept deliberately antagonising them with his admitted fondness for white and Asian women over black women in real life (reflected in how often he had them as love interests in his films). And there was a point where black women loved him as much as Denzel. He lacked the self-awareness to realise he destroyed his most loyal fanbase .Beyond the Blade films, white men obviously didn't show him that much loyalty in the end, because his films stopped making enough to merit cinematic release. Maybe the likelyhood of Snipes diddling yet another white women in one of his action films was a turn-off.

Denzel is still an A-list star because he lives in the real world, and knew the consequences of pushing interracial romance on audiences who weren't ready for it. Snipes ended up a D-lister whose films went straight to video, because he thought the same rules that applied to white leading men, applied to him.

[Paradox1]

Snipes career went in the toliet because the action hero genre died for a long time. That is evident by the career of Arnold, Sly, Jean-Claude, and nearly the entire expendables cast. The action hero genre was at one time the tent pole of nearly every studio's summer blockbusters. If you ask Sly Stallone how that happened he'd say it's Batman's fault and that muscle suit. That movie was beginning of the end for the action star just like the action genre nearly killed Westerns.

[semper]

Originally Posted by Paradox1

Snipes career went in the toliet because the action hero genre died for a long time. That is evident by the career of Arnold, Sly, Jean-Claude, and nearly the entire expendables cast. The action hero genre was at one time the tent pole of nearly every studio's summer blockbusters. If you ask Sly Stallone how that happened he'd say it's Batman's fault and that muscle suit. That movie was beginning of the end for the action star just like the action genre nearly killed Westerns.

Snipes can't be grouped in with those guys. He's a more respected actor than any of them, and he wasn't pericieved to be just an "action guy". He mixed it up with indies (One Night Stand, Sugar Hill), comedies (White men Can't Jump, Money Train, Too Wong Foo) and did quite a few of those upmarket "thrillers" Denzel is so fond of (Murder At 1600, U.S Marshalls). He's closer to Bruce Willis, in terms of his capability as an actor and the variety of things he can be cast in.

Their is no reason his career should have tailed off so dramatically, other than the fact that he alienated whatever fanbase he originally had. Snipes was talented enough to play in any type of film. It's just that people stopped showing up for those films, whether they were action, comedy, drama, thriller or whatever.

[Anubis]

I thought it was because he went over seas and made bunch of s**ty DTV movies while dodging the feds.

[chamber-music]

Wesley Snipes had to turn down the Hale Caesar role which Terry Crews ended up playing as he couldn't leave the U.S because of his legal problems.

Snipes legal troubles is what really hurt his career.

He sued New Line for not paying him his full salary, keeping his out of casting decisions and having his character's screen time reduced in favor of co-stars Ryan Reynolds and Jessica Biel.

Stuff like that doesn't go down well in Hollywood. It damgaed his reputation and thats when most his movies started going direct to DVD.

When you get a reputation for being difficult or you pick fights with powerful people in Hollywood thats when your career really ends up in the toilet.

[semper]

Originally Posted by chamber-music

Wesley Snipes had to turn down the Hale Caesar role which Terry Crews ended up playing as he couldn't leave the U.S because of his legal problems.

Snipes legal troubles is what really hurt his career.

He sued New Line for not paying him his full salary, keeping his out of casting decisions and having his character's screen time reduced in favor of co-stars Ryan Reynolds and Jessica Biel.

Stuff like that doesn't go down well in Hollywood. It damgaed his reputation and thats when most his movies started going direct to DVD.

When you get a reputation for being difficult or you pick fights with powerful people in Hollywood thats when your career really ends up in the toilet.

Hollywood doesn't care about any of that, if your films turn a profit. None of his non-Blade films had been making money for awhile. This was way before his legal problems or Blade Trinity issues. His films went to DTV because he could no longer get an audience outside of Blade.

The minute Snipes dissed black women (essentially his core and most loyal fanbase) in an interview he did in the late 90's, he was living on borrowed time as a movie star.

[Captain Marvel]

The minute Snipes dissed black women (essentially his core and most loyal fanbase) in an interview he did in the late 90's, he was living on borrowed time as a movie star.

I never heard about this. What'd he say, and do you have a link?

[RockSP]

Originally Posted by Captain Marvel

I never heard about this. What'd he say, and do you have a link?

It was either in Ebony or Essence. I remember reading it way back when.

[RogueDK]

It was Essence I'm sure. Mainly a black woman's periodical.

Reason why Snipes crashed and burned was because he was too difficult to work with and the tax thing. At least that's what I thought...