X-men First Class Sequels?

[Majik1387]

No thanks.

[OsGom]

Originally Posted by Majik1387

I personally hate Days of Future Past and hope it never comes to the silver screen.

Wow! Anybody check you for a heartbeat lately? Why bother posting on an Xmen thread when you so obviously hate the Xmen?

Next to the Dark Phoenix saga, The Days of Future Past is the signature must read Xmen story and it provides the foundation for so many other sotrylines that came after.

I know everybody is entitled to their opinion but if you have nothing constructive to contribute to the discussion, why bother?

[Angamb]

Originally Posted by psylockolussus

Yeah I want to see Professor X and Cyclops (especially with how they killed him in X3 ) back in the original X-Men movie series, but I'll save Professor X in X5. I want X4 to be just X-Men and no Professor X leading the X-Men.

I want the villain for X4 to X6 to be Apocalypse & His Four Horsemen. Then with X-Men: Second Class and X-Men: Third Class, I want the main villain to be Mr. Sinister.

VILLAINS WISH LIST
X-Men: Second Class
Mr. Sinister (head villain)
Marauders (at least 2-3 henchmans of Mr. Sinister)

X-Men: Third Class
Mr. Sinister (head villain)
Marauders (at least 2-3 henchmans of Mr. Sinister)
Dark Phoenix (Jean Grey of the original series, this is how Professor X first encountered the beast and he will cage the beast in the end of the movie)

X-Men 4:
Ozymandias (main villain, trying to resurrect Apocalypse)
1-3 henchmen of Ozymandias

X-Men 5: Rise of Apocalypse
Apocalypse (resurrected in the end of X4, main villain)
4 Horsemen of Apocalypse (Spiral, Omega Red, Marrow, Abyss)

X-Men 6: Age of Apocalypse
Apocalypse (main villain)
New 4 Horsemen of Apocalypse - Archangel (Angel of X3), Gambit (Gambit of XOW), Polaris (Polaris of X2C) and Wolverine.

I know this is not going to happen. But I would like to see them happen.

Would be EPIC, definetly

[Majik1387]

Umm I contribute plenty to the discussion thank you. I've never been a fan of the Days of Future Past story.

I enjoy the Dark Phoenix saga, Age of Apocalypse, the Legacy Virus era, Mutant Massacre, and God Loves Man Kills.

Don't try to say I'm not an X-Men fan because of my distaste for one storyline, despite how popular it may be. Especially when I have contributed more to the X-Men boards than any comic movie board here.

[OsGom]

Originally Posted by Majik1387

No time travel mutants please.

Originally Posted by Majik1387

See, I wouldn't mind them in the movie-verse honestly, but it is way too soon to bring them in.

Originally Posted by Majik1387

No, it could work outside of that justification.

Originally Posted by Majik1387

Too early in terms of story. There's plenty of Earth based stories and characters to go through before resorting to have to go to outer space.

Originally Posted by Majik1387

This poll has a depressing outcome.

Originally Posted by Majik1387

I don't want them thinking of this series as a trilogy. Limited unimaginative thinking.

Originally Posted by Majik1387

X-Men 4 is never gonna happen, especially with any of the cast from the first trilogy.(Other than Jackman)

Originally Posted by Majik1387

Not gonna happen.

Originally Posted by Majik1387

I personally hate Days of Future Past and hope it never comes to the silver screen.

Originally Posted by Majik1387

No thanks.

Originally Posted by Majik1387

Umm I contribute plenty to the discussion thank you. I've never been a fan of the Days of Future Past story.

Yes your contributions have been very inspiring. Just seems to me you crap all over everyone else ideas without offering any scenarios of your own.

However, I could just be overly sensitive because your crapping on my particular preferences. If so, apologies Carry on!

[Majik1387]

With how many X-Sequel threads there have been, I don't post the same exact post in each thread because it's spam-like. And honestly, if there were better ideas suggested in here, then maybe I wouldn't crap on them. But if we're gonna break it down, then let us.

"No time travel mutants please."
This was in response to a suggestion of Cable and Bishop being added to the series in a Days of Future past or Age of Apocalypse storyline.
I don't like Cable, I like Bishop. I don't like DoFP, I like AoA. However, neither characters or stories would work in an XFC sequel with the characters given and at the point in time of the series. Time travel is messy and full of plotholes and while I trust Singer and Vaughn, I don't think they'd care for or be able to do time travel.
And I know, I'm not the only poster who feels this way.

"See, I wouldn't mind them in the movie-verse honestly, but it is way too soon to bring them in."
This is in regards to the Shi'Ar. I wouldn't mind the X-Men getting intergalactic, but again, nothing that has happened in XFC would suggest the Shi'Ar should be used so soon.
"No, it could work outside of that justification."
This was in response to a poster who said the Shi'Ar would only work with Loki opening the Earth to Alien invasion. That's not a closure to the idea, that's saying that that idea is not the only way the Shi'Ar can be introduced.

"Too early in terms of story. There's plenty of Earth based stories and characters to go through before resorting to have to go to outer space."
Pretty self explanatory, this was an answer to a poster's question about why going into space is too soon. X-Men go into space a good amount of times yes, but their best stories and characters are Earth-based, and there's no need for anything outer space themed yet.

"This poll has a depressing outcome."
This is due to the voters wanting them finding Cyclops, Jean, Storm, etc. so soon into the first adventures of Xavier. It's them not letting go of the original trilogy and rushing this new series to get it to connect with it prematurely.

"I don't want them thinking of this series as a trilogy. Limited unimaginative thinking."
Another self-explanatory post. Looking at this new continuity as a trilogy limits the director(s), writers, actors, Fox themselves. They shouldn't think of trying to fit in the rest of their early stories in the next 2 movies alone, especially when so much more can be done. Limiting that sort of imagination is restrictive and Fox doesn't have a good track record with movies that are restricted artistically.

"X-Men 4 is never gonna happen, especially with any of the cast from the first trilogy.(Other than Jackman)"
Well, it's not, at least not a good X-4, unless there is major character and plot overhauling going on.
Prof X is dead, Cyclops is dead, Jean is dead, possibly Juggernaut as well(in the Dark Phoenix destruction), Psylocke is dead(she wasn't PINO); Mystique, Rogue, and Magneto are depowered(temporary blah blah I know, was a plot point of my X4 script); Remaining X-Men are out of character Wolvie, annoying Storm, still rookie Iceman, Shadowcat, and Colossus; Angel is just there. Jackman would come back of course, the rest of the cast of the living characters may come back as well, sure; But other than some X-fans a bit of the general audience, no one is clamoring for an X4 the way they did for X3. It's a sad but true fact.
I'm not saying an X4 is entirely impossible, but X3 broke too much to fix to continue in an X4 at this point in time.

"Not gonna happen."
This was to a poster comparing a possible X4 to the upcoming MIB3 and Die Hard 4. It's not gonna happen, especially anytime soon.

"I personally hate Days of Future Past and hope it never comes to the silver screen."
Yeah, one story I don't want on the silver screen. Sue me. I also never want Batman's Hush stories in movie form either.

"No thanks"
I don't want Apocalypse's story starting in X4, it should be an X6 earliest.

"Umm I contribute plenty to the discussion thank you. I've never been a fan of the Days of Future Past story."
You forgot to put the rest of my post in
"I enjoy the Dark Phoenix saga, Age of Apocalypse, the Legacy Virus era, Mutant Massacre, and God Loves Man Kills.

Don't try to say I'm not an X-Men fan because of my distaste for one storyline, despite how popular it may be. Especially when I have contributed more to the X-Men boards than any comic movie board here."

XFC had very few supporters when it was being made, I was one of them, and since it came out a lot of the naysayers to the film switched sides because they saw how good it was.


Regarding ideas for sequel characters/story, I believe I've had most that discussion in the Official First Class News & Speculation Thread: Class Six thread, the Matthew Vaughn Helming X-Men: First Class Sequel thread, and the Villain/s for First Class sequel? thread. Have a look there if you're really interested in my contributions.

[blueserenity]

I have to agree, I don't think you lose points as an X-Men fan just because you don't like a certain popular storyline in it. That's like saying that people who were ok with the mutant selection in XMFC aren't "real" X-Men fans because those weren't the original X-Men.

Actually in general, I don't think anyone ever has the right to tell another person that they aren't a "true" fan of something. Who cares, I mean REALLY?

Back on topic, I also have to agree on the no time-travel thing. It feels a little too Deus Ex for the kind of universe created here. But then I use that argument against Sentinels as well. The universe FC is trying to put forward is one that can coincide with actual historical events, which is a pretty nifty way of doing things. I hope they keep on that route because it makes everything a lot more tangible. The only supernatural/outlandish element of these films should be the powers. Giant robots, time travel, and aliens should have no place in them.

[Majik1387]

And I do have a response for your mindset for the Sentinels in one if not two of the three threads I've mentioned.

[OsGom]

I never said he wasn't a true fan. I said, based on his minimal and generally negative posts, that he clearly hated the Xmen.

I just can't understand how someone who hates the Days of Future Past story and is against time traveling mutants but is a fan of Age of Apocalypse which involves time travel AND alternate realities. Not to mention that this story doesn't happen without the foundation layed out in Days of Future Past.

If he had included all the supposition he added above to his previous posts I might have felt differently. But when someone pops in, craps out negative comments about others perfectly plausible ideas without providing any kind of constructive feedback, it annoys me.

Regardless i handled it poorly. Again I apologize if I responded with false assumptions but hopefully you see my point.

The Avengers was a game-changer in so many ways not the least of which effectively adapting aliens into MU mythology. I think this demonstrates something similar could done in the Xverse in the right hands. Again this is all scifi anyway. It barely took any effort at all in the Avengers and the audience responded. How hard could it really be introduce a time traveling mutant into the Xverse. Or barring that, take a few years off and reboot with Days of Future Past. I don't think it's that far fetched and certainly at least as feasible as Age of Apocalypse, the Phoenix Saga or the Legacy virus arc.

[def28]

Originally Posted by OsGom

The Avengers was a game-changer in so many ways not the least of which effectively adapting aliens into MU mythology. I think this demonstrates something similar could done in the Xverse in the right hands. Again this is all scifi anyway. It barely took any effort at all in the Avengers and the audience responded. How hard could it really be introduce a time traveling mutant into the Xverse. Or barring that, take a few years off and reboot with Days of Future Past. I don't think it's that far fetched and certainly at least as feasible as Age of Apocalypse, the Phoenix Saga or the Legacy virus arc.

Agreed, Avengers ***** slaps every other franchise on whats possible for comic books adaptations. That was the Best comic/Superhero movie Ive seen. All of it can work. If only we had Whedon on X Men, at least for writing.

[Phoenix_Flare]

^ i agree!! one of the biggest complaints about the x-franchise was that certain characters were under-used, no backstory or development, unlike the Avengers one didn't have to see the pre-existing films to know who those characters are, none of them got cyclops,storm,rogue, etc everyone got developed, their own fight scene, and team work fight scene was superb! We have yet to have an epic X-film blow us away, X3 could have been that film w/the phoenix but sadly it was down played...

fans have been wanting 2 things; sentinels/apocalypse and I think either of these two characters would make for an epic film if written well...I for one don't want the brotherhood to get a lot of development we now know how mystique sided w/magneto(and he's only character that needs development) and I highly doubt they'll dwell into kurt's origins, if anything I want the b.o.m to feel they like an actual terrorist group...and the x-men need to bring in 2 popular characters that'll get the fans to see this film, Cyclops/Jean/Storm needs to step in , if the A, can balance 6 team members then they can, I would die if I see Cyclops, Storm, Havoc, Banshee,Beast, Jean kickin' a$$ on screen together!!!!

[blueserenity]

Originally Posted by OsGom

I never said he wasn't a true fan. I said, based on his minimal and generally negative posts, that he clearly hated the Xmen.

I just can't understand how someone who hates the Days of Future Past story and is against time traveling mutants but is a fan of Age of Apocalypse which involves time travel AND alternate realities. Not to mention that this story doesn't happen without the foundation layed out in Days of Future Past.

If he had included all the supposition he added above to his previous posts I might have felt differently. But when someone pops in, craps out negative comments about others perfectly plausible ideas without providing any kind of constructive feedback, it annoys me.

Regardless i handled it poorly. Again I apologize if I responded with false assumptions but hopefully you see my point.

The Avengers was a game-changer in so many ways not the least of which effectively adapting aliens into MU mythology. I think this demonstrates something similar could done in the Xverse in the right hands. Again this is all scifi anyway. It barely took any effort at all in the Avengers and the audience responded. How hard could it really be introduce a time traveling mutant into the Xverse. Or barring that, take a few years off and reboot with Days of Future Past. I don't think it's that far fetched and certainly at least as feasible as Age of Apocalypse, the Phoenix Saga or the Legacy virus arc.

The Avengers is a different beast than X-Men First Class though. XMFC proved it was character driven over action, and hopefully the sequel will be as well (I mean we've got to see the aftermath of the beach on the main pair... Magneto wracked with guilt while slowly transitioning to villain, Charles deaing with the lost of his sister, best friend, and legs, along with what on earth happens to Raven to turn her into Mystique). I think more than any other X-Men film, XMFC2 needs to keep the focus on the characters and not on making fanboys happen (though hopefully the writers aren't making decisions on fanboy desires).

The Avengers isn't character-driven at ALL. As much as I enjoyed it, we didn't learn anything new about any of the characters and in fact I'd venture that the movie relied on the audience having seen a few of the individual movies beforehand to know the basics of the characters/their relationships. The movie was fun because it was action and laughs. I'm sure people who didn't see IM or CA or Thor still enjoyed it because it was a good summer blockbuster.

But the problem remains that there is no character development. And while that was fine for Avengers, it's something that FC really, really needs. Especially in this upcoming sequel.

TL;DR Apples and oranges.

[RachelDawes]

^I agree. TA was an enjoyable but ultimately rather shallow film. I really don't want XFC2 to be like it.

[BMM]

Originally Posted by Phoenix_Flare

^ i agree!! one of the biggest complaints about the x-franchise was that certain characters were under-used, no backstory or development, unlike the Avengers one didn't have to see the pre-existing films to know who those characters are, none of them got cyclops,storm,rogue, etc everyone got developed, their own fight scene, and team work fight scene was superb! We have yet to have an epic X-film blow us away, X3 could have been that film w/the phoenix but sadly it was down played...

If you want backstory and development, yes, you did. While the Avengers works well on its own, I would have known very little about anyone, save for Black Widow and Hawkeye, had each character not had their own solo film first. Scenes like Caulson's death would have been completely meaningless. I wouldn't have cared about hardly anyone. Captain America and Iron Man feuding and beating up aliens is not a substitute for the backstory and character development they were able to flesh out over four years of films. That is a luxury the X-Men films do not, and probably will not, have.

[RachelDawes]

Coulson was basically the Darwin of The Avengers.

[Majik1387]

Nah, I don't dislike Coulson, but he was nowhere near as useless as him.

[def28]

Originally Posted by BMM

That is a luxury the X-Men films do not, and probably will not, have.

But its one thy should have had if done right.

Originally Posted by Majik1387

Nah, I don't dislike Coulson, but he was nowhere near as useless as him.

Spoiler!!! Click to Read!:

Their deaths were both used to push the team into fighting but FC was wayyyy less successful with how Darwin is handled in that regard.

Originally Posted by blueserenity

The Avengers is a different beast than X-Men First Class though. XMFC proved it was character driven over action, and hopefully the sequel will be as well (I mean we've got to see the aftermath of the beach on the main pair... Magneto wracked with guilt while slowly transitioning to villain, Charles deaing with the lost of his sister, best friend, and legs, along with what on earth happens to Raven to turn her into Mystique). I think more than any other X-Men film, XMFC2 needs to keep the focus on the characters and not on making fanboys happen (though hopefully the writers aren't making decisions on fanboy desires).

The Avengers isn't character-driven at ALL. As much as I enjoyed it, we didn't learn anything new about any of the characters and in fact I'd venture that the movie relied on the audience having seen a few of the individual movies beforehand to know the basics of the characters/their relationships. The movie was fun because it was action and laughs. I'm sure people who didn't see IM or CA or Thor still enjoyed it because it was a good summer blockbuster.

But the problem remains that there is no character development. And while that was fine for Avengers, it's something that FC really, really needs. Especially in this upcoming sequel.

TL;DR Apples and oranges.

No its not. The Avengers did a better job developing mulitple characters then any of the X Men movies. Avengers is just as Character driven as XMFC, if not more character balanced overall. And they got it all right. As much as I like FC, Whedon made the better superhero team film overall imo, and would make a better X men film then any of what we have gotten. None of the X Men members (not talking Mags), have got the treatment the members of the Avengers have gotten in any of the X films.

Originally Posted by blueserenity

The only supernatural/outlandish element of these films should be the powers. Giant robots, time travel, and aliens should have no place in them.

Huh? The complex Sci fi /fantasy elements belong in X Men, and will be for the better imo.Leaving it as they can have powers but thts it would be another step back very far for the characters and storys. Why would you want to limit that? Out of curiosity do you enjoy the comics or just the movies?

[blueserenity]

Originally Posted by def28

No its not. The Avengers did a better job developing mulitple characters then any of the X Men movies. Avengers is just as Character driven as XMFC, if not more character balanced overall. And they got it all right. As much as I like FC, Whedon made the better superhero team film overall imo, and would make a better X men film then any of what we have gotten. None of the X Men members (not talking Mags), have got the treatment the members of the Avengers have gotten in any of the X films.

Buuuuuut no one was developed in Avengers. No one. Let's pretend I'm just some dude who walked in off the street and decided to see a movie. I can't remember anything about the characters and I've never seen their one-off movies. Here's what I learn:

Spoiler!!! Click to Read!:

-Some bad guy wants to rule the world. Also he can manipulate people
-Hot spy girl is a badass spy and also did some bad stuff at some point when she was Russian
-Arrow guy is good with arrows and decided NOT to kill spy girl at one point so she owes him
-Giant green dude gets giant and green when he's angry and loses control when in Hulk mode except suddenly not when the heroes need him
-Dweeby FBI guy has a fanboy crush on Captain America also for some reason everyone loves him because when he dies they go into vengeance mode
-Guy with hammer is from wherever the bad guy is from and also they are brothers and the good guy wants to still be bros and the bad guy does not
-RDJ is the best damn thing about this movie
-Captain America is a super classic Superman hero type (to be fair this is all one can glean from the Captain America movie as well).
-they are all pretty nonplussed by shwarmas

Seriously, the only new thing I learned about any of the characters is that Banner tried to kill himself at one point.

BALANCING characters, in regards to screentime, yeah this movie wins. But it offers nothing new about the characters themselves. I don't really blame anyone for that, I mean they had to 1) make sure that they did indeed get equal screentime and 2) make a movie that could function in the individual films' universes and still allow for their own individual sequels as necessary. So that if I loved Thor and had a mad hate-on for all the other characters to the point where I couldn't bring myself to watch Avengers, at least I could watch Thor 2 and not have missed anything crucial. Avengers is like the "Christmas Special" for the movies.

X-Men First Class may have imbalanced screentime and character development (Why was Alex in jail? What is Sean's story beyond him being a bit of a creeper in aquariums?) but the ones they DO develop they offer so much on and leave you itching to learn more about them, not about who they're going to fight next with what power.

Erik, Charles, Raven, and to a lesser extent Hank, all have compelling arcs in XMFC. The Avengers don't have arcs, none of them change between the beginning and the end. One could argue Banner is an exception, but his change from being out of control Hulk to totally on the hero side Hulk is instantaneous and frustratingly unexplained. What makes XMFC even better is that the arcs in the film are part of major ones that will be addressed further in sequels. Erik still isn't Magneto, Charles still isn't Professor X, Raven still isn't Mystique. Now they have time to develop those arcs as well. It makes for a much more interesting movie than Avengers.

But Avengers is arguably more "fun". And definitely funnier.

Huh? The complex Sci fi /fantasy elements belong in X Men, and will be for the better imo.Leaving it as they can have powers but thts it would be another step back very far for the characters and storys. Why would you want to limit that? Out of curiosity do you enjoy the comics or just the movies?

It does, in some versions of X-Men. Namely, comics. Sci-Fi/Fantasy elements for the films have been shown, for the last 5 films, to be restricted to powers. That is what they have established and it works. It gives more time to focus on the characters. When you bring in too many far-fetched elements, you have to explain them, and that takes time away from the actual mutants themselves. In comic or cartoon format there is a wealth of time to go into details. Entire issues/episodes can be used on alien backstory or the explanation of the creation of Sentinels. More time means it's easier for readers/audiences to accept these things and suspend disbelief. But in film you've got only two hours. If they introduced the Sentinels for example, they'd need to find a way to slowly introduce them. Having them come in with little or no explanations means audiences don't get any time to adjust, especially, again, with the prequels wanting to stick to historical things (I don't recall any lessons on GIANT ROBOTS and WHY THAT HYPERADVANCED TECHNOLOGY IS OBSOLETE 50 YEARS LATER).

The films have worked on powers-only so far, why wouldn't they work if they kept up this trend? Why on earth would characters suffer without aliens, sentinels, and time travel? They've got enough to deal with in the comic sequels without worrying about that business.

In answer to your last question, I became a fan of the cartoons first, read a few of the comics, and then watched the movies.. so I supposed I'm more of a media-adaptation of X-Men fan than anything. I've never been one to be bothered by changes between original source and film adaptation. If anything, I welcome it. If I wanted storylines exactly like the comics... well, I'd read the comics.

[SoNicRaDiATioN]

I though Joss did a great job of developing the characters within the context/framework of the story. They defined themselves well in those epic battles as well as through interplay and brief backstory. I loved the shorthand aspect of it at times. And the balance was better then First Class as well. It's a volcano errupted, no doubt about it. I definitely want to see the Avengers a few more times to see how it holds up, then I will give a more in depth review. But after one viewing I'll say:

1) X2 - 9.3 (still the crème de la crème of Marvel's super-teams on screen)
2) The Avengers 9 (The most epic and record breaking Marvel team)
3) First Class - 8.1 (Excellent, but not great team, look forward to the sequel)

I lost the swedish judges scorecard.

[def28]

Originally Posted by blueserenity

Buuuuuut no one was developed in Avengers. No one. Let's pretend I'm just some dude who walked in off the street and decided to see a movie. I can't remember anything about the characters and I've never seen their one-off movies. Here's what I learn:

Spoiler!!! Click to Read!:

-Some bad guy wants to rule the world. Also he can manipulate people
-Hot spy girl is a badass spy and also did some bad stuff at some point when she was Russian
-Arrow guy is good with arrows and decided NOT to kill spy girl at one point so she owes him
-Giant green dude gets giant and green when he's angry and loses control when in Hulk mode except suddenly not when the heroes need him
-Dweeby FBI guy has a fanboy crush on Captain America also for some reason everyone loves him because when he dies they go into vengeance mode
-Guy with hammer is from wherever the bad guy is from and also they are brothers and the good guy wants to still be bros and the bad guy does not
-RDJ is the best damn thing about this movie
-Captain America is a super classic Superman hero type (to be fair this is all one can glean from the Captain America movie as well).
-they are all pretty nonplussed by shwarmas

Seriously, the only new thing I learned about any of the characters is that Banner tried to kill himself at one point.

Since Avengers is a sequel of sorts perhaps it isnt a fair comparison with FC. What new did you need to learn from the characters past that would have made it a better movie? Your selling every character short. Thats like saying
-Guy killed metal mover guys mom now he wants him dead.
-Bad guys an *******, cause he wants power
-Hot blonde chick folows him because uh I dont know
-Smart guy turns into a Cat cause hes a dork
-Hot blue girl is hot and whines cause shes jealous or something
For an audience member whos never seen the other Avenger films, they are given all the past character info they need to follow the film. I thought that would have been a problem but from everyone I went with they were lost for the intro then understood it all. They explain everything they needed to. I honestly have had to answer way more questions about XFC then TA. What we learn thats new with the characters in Avengers is how they came together,grow as a team and their relationships with eachother.

Originally Posted by blueserenity

It does, in some versions of X-Men. Namely, comics. Sci-Fi/Fantasy elements for the films have been shown, for the last 5 films, to be restricted to powers. That is what they have established and it works. It gives more time to focus on the characters. When you bring in too many far-fetched elements, you have to explain them, and that takes time away from the actual mutants themselves. In comic or cartoon format there is a wealth of time to go into details. Entire issues/episodes can be used on alien backstory or the explanation of the creation of Sentinels. More time means it's easier for readers/audiences to accept these things and suspend disbelief. But in film you've got only two hours. If they introduced the Sentinels for example, they'd need to find a way to slowly introduce them. Having them come in with little or no explanations means audiences don't get any time to adjust, especially, again, with the prequels wanting to stick to historical things (I don't recall any lessons on GIANT ROBOTS and WHY THAT HYPERADVANCED TECHNOLOGY IS OBSOLETE 50 YEARS LATER).

The films have worked on powers-only so far, why wouldn't they work if they kept up this trend?Why on earth would characters suffer without aliens, sentinels, and time travel? They've got enough to deal with in the comic sequels without worrying about that business.

No they havnt and I think it hasnt worked. These films can be better. Cerebro, mutant cures, giant fights on the statue of liberty with doomsday type machines. It all sci fi not just powers. They need it because there will be no gain from not using it. Your gonna cut out character elements and storylines. Theres strong stuff there and room to expand. As for Sentinles I think weve already discussed this. It does not take any character elements out of the movie. If anything it shows an extreme side of humans hate for mutants. It raises the stakes. They need to take that step at some point.

These movies will improve by taking in more of the comics history and character traits. Saying something wont work because it doesnt fit in the movie verse is a bad/safe excuse. Anything is possible from the comics in these films. All depends on the writer. The X films will never reach their full potential like Avengers if they ditch all those elements.

[BMM]

Originally Posted by def28

But its one thy should have had if done right.

Better development in general? Sure. Solo films? No. They don’t warrant them, because the X-Men aren’t pre-existing superheroes, unlike the Avengers. The X-Men's superheroics begin as a team.

[def28]

Originally Posted by BMM

Better development in general? Sure. Solo films? No. They don’t warrant them, because the X-Men aren’t pre-existing superheroes, unlike the Avengers. The X-Men's superheroics begin as a team.

Definitely. With solo films they dont have that option immediately. After an intro movie they do. With wolverine, Other teams etc. The X universe is full of so many stories that running multiple films and origins should be done. Having them connected to eachother could be awesome. They have screwed up alot of potential for epic story telling and character development with what they have layed out and chose to focus on.

[Phoenix_Flare]

I have to agree that the Avengers did do a better job handling a team, and there was growth, Tony became more of team player whilst still being sarcastic, Thor learned how to fight amongst the humans, Cap was able to become a hero again and lead a team, etc....I'd comapre those three to Scott, Storm, Jean, or Havoc, Banshee, Beast we never understood who they are and why they decided to stay and become a X-Man? One doesn't need solo film to sell his/her character the little moments in the Avengers between the team was dynamic enough that we understood why they stayed...

[X-Maniac]

Originally Posted by OsGom

I never said he wasn't a true fan. I said, based on his minimal and generally negative posts, that he clearly hated the Xmen.

I just can't understand how someone who hates the Days of Future Past story and is against time traveling mutants but is a fan of Age of Apocalypse which involves time travel AND alternate realities. Not to mention that this story doesn't happen without the foundation layed out in Days of Future Past.

If he had included all the supposition he added above to his previous posts I might have felt differently. But when someone pops in, craps out negative comments about others perfectly plausible ideas without providing any kind of constructive feedback, it annoys me.

Regardless i handled it poorly. Again I apologize if I responded with false assumptions but hopefully you see my point.

I wouldn't worry too much. The person you mentioned could easily be seen as a bit of a party pooper based on the brief and largely negative responses. I was beginning to feel the same way, to be honest. I guess you could have replied to ask why they felt that way and tried to get some more insight into those responses.

The Avengers was a game-changer in so many ways not the least of which effectively adapting aliens into MU mythology. I think this demonstrates something similar could done in the Xverse in the right hands. Again this is all scifi anyway. It barely took any effort at all in the Avengers and the audience responded. How hard could it really be introduce a time traveling mutant into the Xverse. Or barring that, take a few years off and reboot with Days of Future Past. I don't think it's that far fetched and certainly at least as feasible as Age of Apocalypse, the Phoenix Saga or the Legacy virus arc.

Yes, I agree that Avengers introduced aliens into a superhero film without it seeming jarring. The aliens weren't very exciting, and really were just a way of Loki having an army and a way of making use of the Tesseract, but it does show that more fantastical stuff is quite possible in these films. It's a question of the filmmakers' vision and approach - some like to keep these films more grounded and realistic. Whedon had no problems in embracing the comics.

[X-Maniac]

Originally Posted by Phoenix_Flare

^ i agree!! one of the biggest complaints about the x-franchise was that certain characters were under-used, no backstory or development, unlike the Avengers one didn't have to see the pre-existing films to know who those characters are, none of them got cyclops,storm,rogue, etc everyone got developed, their own fight scene, and team work fight scene was superb! We have yet to have an epic X-film blow us away, X3 could have been that film w/the phoenix but sadly it was down played...

There is definitely a better character balance in Avengers, although some characters still don't come off that well (Thor and Hawkeye, in my view, don't get an awful lot of fleshing out, especially with Thor being the brother of the baddie).

What was done right in Avengers is that no one was made the favourite (like Wolverine) and no one was marginalised because the studio thinks they are boring (Cyclops, Storm). Even though Downey Jr steals the limelight, he doesn't dominate at the expense of others.

And at least X3 had consequences to the actions - deaths etc. There were no consequences in Avengers, where the heroes and villain survived astonishing impacts with no real injuries apart from a smear of blood (usually with no obvious wound underneath it). Although the deaths in X3 have caused fan meltdowns, it did at least illustrate the stakes of the story. In Avengers,

Spoiler!!! Click to Read!:

they all surviv unscathed and then meet up for dinner!

fans have been wanting 2 things; sentinels/apocalypse and I think either of these two characters would make for an epic film if written well...I for one don't want the brotherhood to get a lot of development we now know how mystique sided w/magneto(and he's only character that needs development) and I highly doubt they'll dwell into kurt's origins, if anything I want the b.o.m to feel they like an actual terrorist group...and the x-men need to bring in 2 popular characters that'll get the fans to see this film, Cyclops/Jean/Storm needs to step in , if the A, can balance 6 team members then they can, I would die if I see Cyclops, Storm, Havoc, Banshee,Beast, Jean kickin' a$$ on screen together!!!

There is no reason Sentinels or Apocalypse shouldn't come into the franchise at some point, but I'm not screaming out to see them.

Cyclops, Jean and Storm are tricky. On the one hand, introducing them in a 60s setting is problematic because of the timeline with regards to the later films; on the other hand, we clearly saw Storm and someone who may be Cyclops during the Cerebro sequence in First Class. It's also clear that the fanbase want to see those familiar characters - and to see them done well.