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Old 05-06-2012, 09:29 AM   #951
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Default Re: What people DIDN'T like from The Avenger ........Spoilers

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Had they done it in a secure SHIELD location, some agents might probably have gotten orders from higher up to acquire the cube and to apprehend Loki for war crimes. You know, just like some agents got the order to nuke the city.
Bingo. Plus, they could secure a small part of the park rather easily with only a few agents loyal to Fury.

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Old 05-06-2012, 09:34 AM   #952
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Has anyone really thought about Loki's plan in the second act when he's aboard the Hellicarrier?

It doesn't really make much sense. Per Widow, his whole objective was to essentially get Banner to Hulk out, right? Plus turn the team apart.

Well, that doesn't make much sense because Loki has no idea that Fury is putting a team together, let alone know who Banner is and what he becomes. Did he get a dossier from Barton about Banner?

Not to mention, Hawkeye's rescue doesn't make sense either. He takes out one of the engines and then proceeds to break his way inside the Hellicarrier to take out the other engines. Well, why didn't he shoot another one of his kick ass arrows and just take out another engine outside? Fury had just remarked to Hill (or vice versa) that if they lost another engine, they're done for.

Why didn't he just take out another inside?

 
Old 05-06-2012, 09:41 AM   #953
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Default Re: What people DIDN'T like from The Avenger ........Spoilers

I do wish they had shown how Thor returned to Earth. He did almost appear out of nowhere. Loki mentioned Odin having to conjure up dark magic to let Thor back in. I guess showing that, along with showing Asgard again would've been an increase in the budget.

Also, I was hoping to see more out of Captain America, as it was his story I was more interested in seeing. Adapting to the world, seeing the changes, more of the Man out of Time. I read that Whedon cut a lot of scenes that would've made the film more Cap-centric, and that's too bad. I hope there's an extended cut planned with them included.

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Old 05-06-2012, 09:50 AM   #954
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Default Re: What people DIDN'T like from The Avenger ........Spoilers

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Has anyone really thought about Loki's plan in the second act when he's aboard the Hellicarrier?

It doesn't really make much sense. Per Widow, his whole objective was to essentially get Banner to Hulk out, right? Plus turn the team apart.

Well, that doesn't make much sense because Loki has no idea that Fury is putting a team together, let alone know who Banner is and what he becomes. Did he get a dossier from Barton about Banner?

Not to mention, Hawkeye's rescue doesn't make sense either. He takes out one of the engines and then proceeds to break his way inside the Hellicarrier to take out the other engines. Well, why didn't he shoot another one of his kick ass arrows and just take out another engine outside? Fury had just remarked to Hill (or vice versa) that if they lost another engine, they're done for.

Why didn't he just take out another inside?
Well, once Loki controlled Hawkeye, he knew everything Hawkeye knew. That's how he was able to give his little speech to Widow. So, he knew what all about the Avengers Initiative, Stark, Banner, the whole team.

Why did Barton go into the Hellicarrier? Shutting down the other engine from inside gave them time to break Loki out while the results of the initial attack kept everyone busy. I don't think the plan was so much to take out the Helicarrier as it was to scatter the team and disrupt everything.

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Old 05-06-2012, 09:51 AM   #955
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Default Re: What people DIDN'T like from The Avenger ........Spoilers

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Originally Posted by J.Howlett View Post
Has anyone really thought about Loki's plan in the second act when he's aboard the Hellicarrier?

It doesn't really make much sense. Per Widow, his whole objective was to essentially get Banner to Hulk out, right? Plus turn the team apart.

Well, that doesn't make much sense because Loki has no idea that Fury is putting a team together, let alone know who Banner is and what he becomes. Did he get a dossier from Barton about Banner?

Not to mention, Hawkeye's rescue doesn't make sense either. He takes out one of the engines and then proceeds to break his way inside the Hellicarrier to take out the other engines. Well, why didn't he shoot another one of his kick ass arrows and just take out another engine outside? Fury had just remarked to Hill (or vice versa) that if they lost another engine, they're done for.

Why didn't he just take out another inside?
I figured Loki was given all his information regarding the Avengers from Hawkeye. Also, I thought Bad-Hawkeye's attack on the HelliCarrier was to save Loki and recover the staff.

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Old 05-06-2012, 09:54 AM   #956
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Default Re: What people DIDN'T like from The Avenger ........Spoilers

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I do wish they had shown how Thor returned to Earth. He did almost appear out of nowhere. Loki mentioned Odin having to conjure up dark magic to let Thor back in. I guess showing that, along with showing Asgard again would've been an increase in the budget.

Also, I was hoping to see more out of Captain America, as it was his story I was more interested in seeing. Adapting to the world, seeing the changes, more of the Man out of Time. I read that Whedon cut a lot of scenes that would've made the film more Cap-centric, and that's too bad. I hope there's an extended cut planned with them included.
The only problem with making it more centered on Cap is that it takes away from everyone else. Thus pissing off their fans. There was no way Joss was going to be able to give each Avenger enough story time to make all of the fans as happy as they would like. Well, not without making a much longer movie.


By the way, your avy is distracting.

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Old 05-06-2012, 09:57 AM   #957
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Default Re: What people DIDN'T like from The Avenger ........Spoilers

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The thing is, Loki is the god of trickery and one of asgard's best sorcerers. I don't care how good of an agent Black Widow is, she should not be able to trick the guy who has been able to trick his brother into banishment, and trick the king of the frost giants into his own death, and potential destruction of his world.
Right, but it wasn't a trick as in 'gotcha! you fell for it, sucker!'

Black Widow is just letting Loki talk, probing everything he says for meaning.

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Old 05-06-2012, 09:59 AM   #958
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Default Re: What people DIDN'T like from The Avenger ........Spoilers

Fans are saying that aliens Chitauri have a hive mind, but that was not explained in the movie, Thor should have told that info to his team members so that they could have come up with a better plan, like taking down the mother ship in the first place.

Also, having a hive mind should not make others to drop dead when the connection with the mother ship is terminated, after all they were biologically alive beings not drones. (for example ants and termites have a hive mind but they do not die if the rest of their colony is destroyed.)

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Old 05-06-2012, 10:10 AM   #959
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Default Re: What people DIDN'T like from The Avenger ........Spoilers

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The thing is, Loki is the god of trickery and one of asgard's best sorcerers. I don't care how good of an agent Black Widow is, she should not be able to trick the guy who has been able to trick his brother into banishment, and trick the king of the frost giants into his own death, and potential destruction of his world. It was made clear in Thor that Loki is a very tricky one. so yes, him being outwitted by Black Widow, certainly takes away from his character a bit I think.

And you are right about the Hawkeye thing. Yeah, Loki didn't know it would blow up, he saw the whole thing coming
One thing you have to look at though, is that both Thor and Laufey were both headstrong and itching for a fight. Loki gave them just the right nudge they needed. Also, Loki is a very pompous character who tends to underestimate his opponents. A common flaw among super-villains. In fact, I don't think there's a single comic book villain that hasn't had his own arrogance come back to bite him in the ass at least once or twice.

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Old 05-06-2012, 10:12 AM   #960
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Default Re: What people DIDN'T like from The Avenger ........Spoilers

I thought the Chitauri were biomechanical. When the connection was lost i noticed the big dragon thing kinda shorted out, you could see a blue spark inside it.

Maybe they were originally purely organic but were turned into drones by Thanos.

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Old 05-06-2012, 10:18 AM   #961
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Default Re: What people DIDN'T like from The Avenger ........Spoilers

All the Cap stuff will be saved for his next movie. Remember he is still new to our world. The Avengers movie helps him move on with his life, so you will get more from him in his next movie.

Loki mentioned Dark Magic, which helped Thor get back to earth.

People need to remember Loki is not full blooded Asgardian. He is a frost Giant remember remember.

People also forget that the Hulk is the strongest Marvel character in the universe. The madder he gets the more stronger he gets.

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Old 05-06-2012, 10:21 AM   #962
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Default Re: What people DIDN'T like from The Avenger ........Spoilers

Thanos was testing earth to see how formidable they will be. You ever herd of testing the waters first before you attack.

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Old 05-06-2012, 10:24 AM   #963
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Default Re: What people DIDN'T like from The Avenger ........Spoilers

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All the Cap stuff will be saved for his next movie. Remember he is still new to our world. The Avengers movie helps him move on with his life, so you will get more from him in his next movie.

Loki mentioned Dark Magic, which helped Thor get back to earth.

People need to remember Loki is not full blooded Asgardian. He is a frost Giant remember remember.

People also forget that the Hulk is the strongest Marvel character in the universe. The madder he gets the more stronger he gets.
I wouldn't say Hulk is the strongest character in the MU. Thanos, for example, is physically stronger than him.

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Old 05-06-2012, 10:25 AM   #964
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Default Re: What people DIDN'T like from The Avenger ........Spoilers

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Loki mentioned Dark Magic, which helped Thor get back to earth.
Not Dark Magic, Dark Energy. The same thing they were researching at that Joint Dark Energy Facility in the beginning.

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Old 05-06-2012, 10:30 AM   #965
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Default Re: What people DIDN'T like from The Avenger ........Spoilers

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The only problem with making it more centered on Cap is that it takes away from everyone else. Thus pissing off their fans. There was no way Joss was going to be able to give each Avenger enough story time to make all of the fans as happy as they would like. Well, not without making a much longer movie.


By the way, your avy is distracting.
I personally wouldn't have minded a longer movie. I'm all for longer films as long as it's good. I'd get my money's worth.

I understand what you're saying about Cap. I hope it is addressed in his sequel, because I'm curious to what happened between the time Fury met him at the end of First Avenger and the opening with the punching bag scene. Could be shown in flashbacks I imagine.

I'm sure it is. Stay focused!

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Old 05-06-2012, 10:31 AM   #966
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Default Re: What people DIDN'T like from The Avenger ........Spoilers

The film felt longer then it was because of how static it became once they hit the helicarrier the second time.

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Old 05-06-2012, 10:34 AM   #967
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Default Re: What people DIDN'T like from The Avenger ........Spoilers

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I personally wouldn't have minded a longer movie. I'm all for longer films as long as it's good. I'd get my money's worth.

I understand what you're saying about Cap. I hope it is addressed in his sequel, because I'm curious to what happened between the time Fury met him at the end of First Avenger and the opening with the punching bag scene. Could be shown in flashbacks I imagine.

I'm sure it is. Stay focused!
Oh, I would have loved a slightly longer film but, for what you're talking about, they need Cap 2.


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Old 05-06-2012, 10:36 AM   #968
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Default Re: What people DIDN'T like from The Avenger ........Spoilers

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Oh, I would have loved a slightly longer film but, for what you're talking about, they need Cap 2.


It's not so much her sexiness, it's, "What the Hell kind of dance is that?"
Yeah, they do. I can't wait for it. It's the my most anticipated Marvel film now, even more than Avengers 2. Cap's become my favorite Marvel character over the last few years so seeing his story get explored is something I look forward to. My second anticipated Marvel film is Thor 2.

I had asked the same question, but pretty much got over it instantly.

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Old 05-06-2012, 10:42 AM   #969
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Default Re: What people DIDN'T like from The Avenger ........Spoilers

I am not exactly sure why Cap's settling had to be handled in a different film? Especially when they do a half-hearted version here.

It would make sense if they didn't touch upon it, but they did and now any attempt to explore it in the Cap sequel is going to be out of place.

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Old 05-06-2012, 10:43 AM   #970
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Default Re: What people DIDN'T like from The Avenger ........Spoilers

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I wouldn't say Hulk is the strongest character in the MU. Thanos, for example, is physically stronger than him.
Is not. Only with the help of a cosmic weapon like the cube or the Infinity gauntlet.

Although there's been debate about this since Thor was introduced, at this point the Hulk is seen as being the strongest- even physically stronger than Superman. This doesn't mean he can beat everyone (Or sometimes anyone) but he is the strongest.

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Old 05-06-2012, 11:00 AM   #971
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Default Re: What people DIDN'T like from The Avenger ........Spoilers

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It's not a problem because he believes himself to be the superior being. Loki is cunning and sly and a master manipulator his conceit and arrogance is what allowed Widow to trick him because he believes again that human are inferior.

As for Hawkeye's arrow what was wrong with that? Loki last I checked wasn't a precog. It was something unforeseen. They were in the middle of battle so I'm not sure why Loki would know it's an exploding arrow.
I said the arrow wasn't a problem

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Old 05-06-2012, 11:09 AM   #972
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Default Re: What people DIDN'T like from The Avenger ........Spoilers

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I wouldn't say Hulk is the strongest character in the MU. Thanos, for example, is physically stronger than him.
Right. Just because he has unlimmitted potentential, doesn't mean he reaches that. I will say Hulk is as strong as we have seen him.

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Old 05-06-2012, 11:10 AM   #973
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Default Re: What people DIDN'T like from The Avenger ........Spoilers

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Is not. Only with the help of a cosmic weapon like the cube or the Infinity gauntlet.

Although there's been debate about this since Thor was introduced, at this point the Hulk is seen as being the strongest- even physically stronger than Superman. This doesn't mean he can beat everyone (Or sometimes anyone) but he is the strongest.
He is. When he has the gauntlet, he doesn't need strength.

There are stronger characters than Hulk. Don't fall for it.

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Old 05-06-2012, 11:14 AM   #974
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Is not. Only with the help of a cosmic weapon like the cube or the Infinity gauntlet.

Although there's been debate about this since Thor was introduced, at this point the Hulk is seen as being the strongest- even physically stronger than Superman. This doesn't mean he can beat everyone (Or sometimes anyone) but he is the strongest.

Thank You.

Don't know why people have a problem with the Hulk throwing Loki around like that.

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Old 05-06-2012, 11:54 AM   #975
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Default Re: What people DIDN'T like from The Avenger ........Spoilers

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I do wish they had shown how Thor returned to Earth. He did almost appear out of nowhere. Loki mentioned Odin having to conjure up dark magic to let Thor back in. I guess showing that, along with showing Asgard again would've been an increase in the budget.
Ah yes. Makes you wonder why did they do all the 'Oh Thor can't come back to earth to his girl, sad' in his movie. It just undo all that with a mere vague explanation. Lazy writing there.

They didn't have to show that but a decent explanation could have sufficed.

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Also, I was hoping to see more out of Captain America, as it was his story I was more interested in seeing. Adapting to the world, seeing the changes, more of the Man out of Time. I read that Whedon cut a lot of scenes that would've made the film more Cap-centric, and that's too bad. I hope there's an extended cut planned with them included.
This was basically Capt. America 2 for him. His character had a lot to do adapting to the world. Punching that bag while having flashbacks was far from enough.

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