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Old 05-06-2012, 12:58 PM   #976
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Default Re: What people DIDN'T like from The Avenger ........Spoilers

There was a decent explanation. Jane was taken to a secret research facility.

Thor was only on Earth for his brother. Bro's before hoes ya dig?

And Cap had his development. At the start of the film he was clearly awkward, felt out of place. But the new mission? That was what he needed. He's a soldier, a new mission made him feel worthwhile. And as the film progressed he became more confident. Culminating in Stark deferring to him in the battle and Cap giving out the orders, which was an excellent scene.

All this **** was there. Again, do you people want it spoon fed to you or what?

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Old 05-06-2012, 12:59 PM   #977
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Default Re: What people DIDN'T like from The Avenger ........Spoilers

I wish there was more connection to TIH.

It seems like they went out of their way to connect the film to Iron Man, Thor, and CA but TIH is kind of forgotten. Sort of understandable with Norton gone and the movie underperforming, but still disappointing.

I also felt like Thor's story was a little weak relative to the other characters.

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Old 05-06-2012, 01:00 PM   #978
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Default Re: What people DIDN'T like from The Avenger ........Spoilers

Banner mentioned he "broke... Harlem". That was enough connection to TIH. Also, Black Widow mentioned that SHIELD threw his scent of off other interested parties, clearly referencing Ross.

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Old 05-06-2012, 01:02 PM   #979
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Default Re: What people DIDN'T like from The Avenger ........Spoilers

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There was a decent explanation. Jane was taken to a secret research facility.

Thor was only on Earth for his brother. Bro's before hoes ya dig?
I was talking about how did he come back to earth when it was impossible by the end of 'Thor.'

Yeah, I got the explanation about Jane and having her out of the movie was the best thing to do with her.

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And Cap had his development. At the start of the film he was clearly awkward, felt out of place. But the new mission? That was what he needed. He's a soldier, a new mission made him feel worthwhile. And as the film progressed he became more confident. Culminating in Stark deferring to him in the battle and Cap giving out the orders, which was an excellent scene.
You're saying he wasn't confident and a leader in his own movie?

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All this **** was there. Again, do you people want it spoon fed to you or what?
No, if a character is one way in one scene and then different in the next you can tell there's a change. That doesn't mean it's proper development.

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Old 05-06-2012, 01:07 PM   #980
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You're saying he wasn't confident and a leader in his own movie?
Of course he was. But that was because he was in his own time, and he had a purpose.

At the start of Avengers he clearly wasn't used to his surroundings, he clearly had some anger bottled up inside him. He had no purpose, no way to channel that anger and pain apart from beating the crap out of numerous punching bags.

Then Fury gave him the mission and from there his character grew.


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No, if a character is one way in one scene and then different in the next you can tell there's a change. That doesn't mean it's proper development.
And how did you get this vibe from Cap?

Also, that isn't how it always works. Sometimes a character does change. It isn't always a steady build up. Sometimes a character reaches a breaking point. Or has an epiphany, a "lightbulb" moment. Just like how real human beings do.

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Old 05-06-2012, 01:11 PM   #981
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Default Re: What people DIDN'T like from The Avenger ........Spoilers

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I was talking about how did he come back to earth when it was impossible by the end of 'Thor.'
Why would it be impossible? In THOR Loki says that there are other ways to travel between realms that the rest don't seem to know about. That kind of speaks directly against that it would be impossible.

And I think they explained a possibility very clearly, without making it seem like the character is talking to the audience instead of another character. That of course being that Loki knows how Odin could have done it, but that it would have forced him to use means that he wouldn't want to unless there was real need.

What more do we need to know? Nothing, in my opinion, since it doesn't affect anything else in the movie.

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Old 05-06-2012, 01:34 PM   #982
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And Cap had his development. At the start of the film he was clearly awkward, felt out of place. But the new mission? That was what he needed. He's a soldier, a new mission made him feel worthwhile. And as the film progressed he became more confident. Culminating in Stark deferring to him in the battle and Cap giving out the orders, which was an excellent scene.
Just...no. There's no connective tissue to get us from the end of his own film to where he is by the end of the first act. Nothing.

Saving it for Captain America 2 is ass backwards.

 
Old 05-06-2012, 01:46 PM   #983
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Why would it be impossible? In THOR Loki says that there are other ways to travel between realms that the rest don't seem to know about. That kind of speaks directly against that it would be impossible.

And I think they explained a possibility very clearly, without making it seem like the character is talking to the audience instead of another character. That of course being that Loki knows how Odin could have done it, but that it would have forced him to use means that he wouldn't want to unless there was real need.

What more do we need to know? Nothing, in my opinion, since it doesn't affect anything else in the movie.
Also, I can't imagine Odin using the "massive amount of dark energy" just to let Thor go visit Jane. Loki trying to take over Earth though, that's a good reason.


Cap got his development. After he was thawed out, you could tell he was troubled. The mission was what he needed to help himself focus. And, after Coulson's death, he was questioning himself again, just like after he lost Bucky.


Of course they're not going to reference Norton, just like they didn't reference anything Terrance Howard did in Iron Man.

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Old 05-06-2012, 01:53 PM   #984
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The only real character development in this movie is Iron Man. Cap is a leader throughout, Hulk/Bruce has developed since his own movie but in this movie he's the same. Thor is there for one reason to put an end to Lokis menace. But Iron Man he goes from this guy who wants to fight alone and wants no help to "Call it Cap"

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Old 05-06-2012, 01:55 PM   #985
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Just...no. There's no connective tissue to get us from the end of his own film to where he is by the end of the first act. Nothing.

Saving it for Captain America 2 is ass backwards.
There is a scene that was left on the cutting room floor. But i'm not talking about getting him from his movie to this one.

Point is, the scene in the gym clearly shows him frustrated, angry, in pain. The row of punching bags wasn't just a visual gag, it was showing us that he has been beating the **** out of these punching bags for some time. Taking out his anger on them.

Then he is presented with a mission, which gives him purpose, which helps him integrated with the new world and helps him forget about his worries. Paraphrasing Stark's line from the first Iron Man; It's about the next mission, that's all there is.

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Old 05-06-2012, 01:57 PM   #986
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Default Re: What people DIDN'T like from The Avenger ........Spoilers

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Why would it be impossible? In THOR Loki says that there are other ways to travel between realms that the rest don't seem to know about. That kind of speaks directly against that it would be impossible.
Oh. So the whole sad Thor at the end of the Thor movie was just... what? And the destruction of the device was also nothing actually. It was perfectly possible for Thor to travel back to earth, so the whole scenario by the end was just... unimportant.

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And I think they explained a possibility very clearly, without making it seem like the character is talking to the audience instead of another character. That of course being that Loki knows how Odin could have done it, but that it would have forced him to use means that he wouldn't want to unless there was real need.
No need for the character to talk to the audience. That'd be just more lazy writing.

But guessing a possibility is far from clear.

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What more do we need to know? Nothing, in my opinion, since it doesn't affect anything else in the movie.
I said it affect the Thor movie retroactively, not this one.



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Point is, the scene in the gym clearly shows him frustrated, angry, in pain. The row of punching bags wasn't just a visual gag, it was showing us that he has been beating the **** out of these punching bags for some time. Taking out his anger on them.

Then he is presented with a mission, which gives him purpose, which helps him integrated with the new world and helps him forget about his worries.
And then is where the whole 'adapting to the new world' is forgotten.

I'm sure iof this was Capt. America 2, his adaptation to the world would have had more than 1 scene.


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Old 05-06-2012, 02:07 PM   #987
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Default Re: What people DIDN'T like from The Avenger ........Spoilers

Really, TIH is the odd man out anyway. Which makes sense. Its the only film that wasn't wholly a product of Marvel Studios.

As for the travel angle, actually, I suspect travel will be a lot easier post-Avengers. Thor and Loki used the Tesseract to fairly easily travel back to Asgard. I suspect Odin will put the thing to use powering a new Bifrost, or equivalent.

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Old 05-06-2012, 02:11 PM   #988
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Default Re: What people DIDN'T like from The Avenger ........Spoilers

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Oh. So the whole sad Thor at the end of the Thor movie was just... what? And the destruction of the device was also nothing actually. It was perfectly possible for Thor to travel back to earth, so the whole scenario by the end was just... unimportant.



No need for the character to talk to the audience. That'd be just more lazy writing.

But guessing a possibility is far from clear.



I said it affect the Thor movie retroactively, not this one.
Loki said how much DARK energy did the All Father have to use. It's was obviously a risky thing for him to do. But he did it because it was desperate times, his rogue son was on a rampage on Earth. There will be consequences, probably shown in Thor 2. How much do you want to bet on that?




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And then is where the whole 'adapting to the new world' is forgotten.

I'm sure iof this was Capt. America 2, his adaptation to the world would have had more than 1 scene.
I don't see how it's forgotten. Like i just explain, Cap is a soldier, he feels comfortable when on a mission. It allows him to forget about his troubles, even if just for the time being. I think it was a perfectly acceptable way to confront the issue.

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Old 05-06-2012, 02:24 PM   #989
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Default Re: What people DIDN'T like from The Avenger ........Spoilers

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There is a scene that was left on the cutting room floor. But i'm not talking about getting him from his movie to this one.

Point is, the scene in the gym clearly shows him frustrated, angry, in pain. The row of punching bags wasn't just a visual gag, it was showing us that he has been beating the **** out of these punching bags for some time. Taking out his anger on them.

Then he is presented with a mission, which gives him purpose, which helps him integrated with the new world and helps him forget about his worries. Paraphrasing Stark's line from the first Iron Man; It's about the next mission, that's all there is.
I loved Whedon's decision to use the punching bag as a moment to flash back. The camera angles and how hard Evans was hitting the bag ..... just a really great/intense scene.

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Old 05-06-2012, 02:30 PM   #990
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Default Re: What people DIDN'T like from The Avenger ........Spoilers

Yea, one of the technical aspects i think is really overlooked is the editing. Really good editing and scene transition in this film.

Loved the part in Germany with the orchestra playing, Loki walking around, with Cap suiting up and the shots of the Quinjet flying.

Also when Loki was ripping apart Black Widow it cuts to the other Avengers aboard the Helicarrier.

Just those little details added up to make this film a real piece of quality.

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Old 05-06-2012, 02:43 PM   #991
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Default Re: What people DIDN'T like from The Avenger ........Spoilers

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Oh. So the whole sad Thor at the end of the Thor movie was just... what? And the destruction of the device was also nothing actually. It was perfectly possible for Thor to travel back to earth, so the whole scenario by the end was just... unimportant.
Please see the following post...
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Also, I can't imagine Odin using the "massive amount of dark energy" just to let Thor go visit Jane. Loki trying to take over Earth though, that's a good reason.

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Old 05-06-2012, 02:45 PM   #992
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Default Re: What people DIDN'T like from The Avenger ........Spoilers

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Loved the part in Germany with the orchestra playing, Loki walking around, with Cap suiting up and the shots of the Quinjet flying.
Yeah and I love that the whole orchestra sequence is shattered by by Loki walloping that guy in the face.

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Old 05-06-2012, 02:48 PM   #993
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Yea, that was brutal. hahaha.

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Old 05-06-2012, 02:55 PM   #994
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I do wish they had shown how Thor returned to Earth. He did almost appear out of nowhere. Loki mentioned Odin having to conjure up dark magic to let Thor back in. I guess showing that, along with showing Asgard again would've been an increase in the budget.
Ha! When I watched Thor on the plane I thought this:

In Asgard, on the remaining limits of the Bifröst, Thor and his father gaze upon the infinite...

Thor: Father, my beloved Earth is in danger, I must go back and stop Loki.

Odin: Very well. *Pushes Thor from the Bifröst*

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Old 05-06-2012, 02:58 PM   #995
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Default Re: What people DIDN'T like from The Avenger ........Spoilers

Remember when Cap was boxing and he was having flashbacks? There was one quick scene where they showed Cap on the table thawing from the ice with doctors around him and one of the doctors goes "My God, he's alive!". I'm wondering if that was an actual scene that was filmed and just taken out of the movie? Even in his solo movie we never actually saw what happened when they actually found him in the ice.

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Old 05-06-2012, 03:03 PM   #996
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Default Re: What people DIDN'T like from The Avenger ........Spoilers

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I wish there was more connection to TIH.

It seems like they went out of their way to connect the film to Iron Man, Thor, and CA but TIH is kind of forgotten. Sort of understandable with Norton gone and the movie underperforming, but still disappointing.

I also felt like Thor's story was a little weak relative to the other characters.
That's pretty true to source material though, Thor's always been the guy who has more things going outside of the Avengers.

His story wasn't "weaker" than the others, it was just more straight forward and to the point.

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There was a decent explanation. Jane was taken to a secret research facility.

Thor was only on Earth for his brother. Bro's before hoes ya dig?
True story

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Old 05-06-2012, 03:05 PM   #997
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Thor i felt had the most emotional arc out of all the characters. It was the conflict in how to stop his brother. He kept trying to reason with him, but at the moment when Loki killed Coulson and Thor was trapped, you could see the rage in his face. I think at that moment he contemplated killing Loki if he could get his hands on him.

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Old 05-06-2012, 03:06 PM   #998
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Default Re: What people DIDN'T like from The Avenger ........Spoilers

The only thing I didn't like at all was how easily Loki and the Chitauri were defeated. Loki seemed like a complete pushover in the second half of the film.

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Old 05-06-2012, 03:12 PM   #999
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Loki said how much DARK energy did the All Father have to use. It's was obviously a risky thing for him to do. But he did it because it was desperate times, his rogue son was on a rampage on Earth. There will be consequences, probably shown in Thor 2. How much do you want to bet on that?
I don't know how much. It's not like they cannot overlook that too.

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I don't see how it's forgotten. Like i just explain, Cap is a soldier, he feels comfortable when on a mission. It allows him to forget about his troubles, even if just for the time being. I think it was a perfectly acceptable way to confront the issue.
He was comfortable in the 1940's. He gets frozen. Wakes up in 2011. He's uncomfortable. New mission, he's comfortable again. The whole adapting to the modern times got suddlenly solved because of a new mission.





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Yea, one of the technical aspects i think is really overlooked is the editing. Really good editing and scene transition in this film.

Loved the part in Germany with the orchestra playing, Loki walking around, with Cap suiting up and the shots of the Quinjet flying.

Also when Loki was ripping apart Black Widow it cuts to the other Avengers aboard the Helicarrier.

Just those little details added up to make this film a real piece of quality.
Those aspects and scenes you mention are truly worthy of mentioning. For me the scene with Loki in Germany was specially exceptional, because of the use of the music. And then when the old man decides to stand up against Loki.




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Please see the following post...
Well, with vague explanations come fans speculations. Nothing wrong about that.

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Old 05-06-2012, 03:12 PM   #1000
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It would be nice tie in if Ross was some how involved in influencing the counsel to nuke Manhattan. getting rid of the hulk in the process.

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