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Old 02-03-2012, 04:53 AM   #1
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Default Naruto movie?

they should make a naruto film but dont screw it up like the dragonball z one

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Old 02-03-2012, 05:44 PM   #2
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...No

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Old 02-03-2012, 11:28 PM   #3
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Default Re: Naruto movie?

should just go the dbz route and just make anime movies, which they are already doing. leave live action alone.

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Old 02-04-2012, 02:19 AM   #4
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Default Re: Naruto movie?

Hollywood let alone the Japanese film industry aren't ready for this. No.

Even Bleach which WB bought the rights to I'm completely dubious about.

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Old 03-05-2012, 05:48 PM   #5
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If done right, yes.
It's not impossible, just like making movie adaptations of comic books wasn't impossible, they just need to find the right vision for this, Naruto has the potential o Harry Potter, kids empowerment, thrilling story and cool background and universe.

The thing is, they normally don't take these kinds of adaptations seriously, the animes they adapted were terrible, The Last Airbender isn't an anime but in a certain way counts, and i must say that it all starts with the world, they didn't nail their franchise's respective worlds, Dragon Ball Evolution and The Last Airbender didn't seem big enough, these movies should have as big and epic worlds as Lord of the Rings, not a B-Movie's quality.

Next you have the characters and the fight scenes, the fight scenes should be a cross between Matrix with asian fight movies, and a touch of modern western special effects, the characters need to be well written and well cast, the last films have suffered for white washing, Naruto, the protagonist, can actually work with an americal actor as he more similar to one than an asiatic guy.

The Uchiha clasn should be all Japanese, most of Konoha should be Japanese too, Kakashi should be Japanese, a good thing with Naruto is that there are some great villains, Zabuza, Oroshimaru, Tobi, etc.

The first film should introduce the characters and the world with the Zabuza arc, and his abilities with the water could offer some cool scenarios:



There you have it, i never got into Bleach, if they actually make a movie of that i hope they make justice to the manga and anime.

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Old 03-05-2012, 08:49 PM   #6
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Default Re: Naruto movie?

Did Zabuza make a return to the manga after the bridgebuilder plot at the beginning of the manga? That's some cool art and I don't remember him using a water-based attack like that, that is why I ask.

How would you structure it for a trilogy, though? I know that it would probably need more movies (I had been following the US release of the manga up to Itachi's first appearance) but that is the likeliest scenario I can see happening--a trilogy, if that.

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Old 03-06-2012, 02:57 PM   #7
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Spoiler!!! Click to Read!:
Him and Haku have returned as sort of living dead in the latest arc being controled by Kabuto to fight in the war on the Akatsuki's side.


Zabuza had some water techniques that would show some cool effects:



He even used an water buble to imprison Kakashi, the first film should be only about this, i'd even cut Mizuki and Konohamaru, i think it's way too much for a trilogy, i would have the chunin exams and Konoha Invasion arcs last 2 films.

I know this seems unlikely as anime didn't even prove that it can be properly adapted to american cinema, but the only way to actually adapt the story it would take in least the same number of films that Harry Potter had, and the kids would have to be able to grow up, and even then you would have to cut a lot of characters.

In the end i think i would make 3 or 4 movies for each Part, so it would end up being a 6-8 or even more film series, i think it's possible to make this a very lucrative franchise as it features new storytelling potential, along with new possibilities of fight scenes.

It would be cool to see some of these parts in live action:






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Old 03-06-2012, 03:47 PM   #8
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Default Re: Naruto movie?

Everything you've said would be in a perfect world scenario. And it still wouldn't be easy to make it all work together. So if there ever is a Naruto movie it would be in the vain of another Dragonball Evolution.

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Old 03-06-2012, 04:07 PM   #9
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Default Re: Naruto movie?

Naruto is far more intricate than DB/Z and complex when it comes to its narrative and story. The arcs interweave through different points in time and the terminology is even more difficult to a get a grasp of if you're some random American screenwriter with little to no experience or familiarity with manga.

Hollywood would completely fumble this into a muddy ditch.

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Old 03-06-2012, 04:29 PM   #10
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Most of the terms would be Americanized, I can't even imagine a movie where they would actually use the words Hokage etc.

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Old 03-06-2012, 04:32 PM   #11
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Default Re: Naruto movie?

Which defeats the purpose of Americanizing inherently Japanese centered manga. It's inundated in Japanese terminology, mythology, culture for it to succeed by way of whitewashing in any shape way or form.

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Old 03-07-2012, 09:44 AM   #12
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Everything you've said would be in a perfect world scenario. And it still wouldn't be easy to make it all work together. So if there ever is a Naruto movie it would be in the vain of another Dragonball Evolution.
I said how i think it would work, like i don in any other discussion of a certain film when i have an idea of how i think it would work, what's the problem with that? What's the problem of incentivating this idea with ways of how it can work?


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Originally Posted by craigdbfan
Naruto is far more intricate than DB/Z and complex when it comes to its narrative and story. The arcs interweave through different points in time and the terminology is even more difficult to a get a grasp of if you're some random American screenwriter with little to no experience or familiarity with manga.

Hollywood would completely fumble this into a muddy ditch.
It's exactly why it is so complex that i would like to see it adapted, and the sriptwriter and Director should obviously know and like the manga, Shane Black for example was interested in adapting Death Note, he's a good Director and showed interest and knowledge in the Manga and Anime, and he was against the studio in droping some important characters and plot points as was done with Dragon Ball Evolution, now that's the kind of enthusiasm the director of this should have, and he's proof that these director don't exist only in perfect worlds.

I think that the Zabuza arc would serve as a good introduction and show if it could have more movies, then if it had success the Chunin and Konoha invasion arcs should serve to see if Naruto has the potencial of a film franchise and if they should go with the
Spoiler!!! Click to Read!:
Sasuke leaving Konoha and Akatsuki arcs

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Old 04-10-2012, 11:27 PM   #13
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Well speaking of a Naruto movie here is one that just got announced. A new movie celebrating the 10th anniversary of the anime franchise is being made and Masashi Kishimoto, the creator of Naruto, actually personally took part in this production and conceived the story and made new characters for it. First teaser trailer has already been released:

VIDEO-CLick to Watch!:


Naruto: Road to Ninja will be out in Japan in June of this year.

More information from ANN:

http://www.animenewsnetwork.com/news...d-by-kishimoto

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This year's 17th issue of Shueisha's Weekly Shonen Jump magazine is annoucing on Monday that Naruto manga creator Masashi Kishimoto is personally conceiving the all-new story and designing the characters for the newest Naruto the Movie: Road to Ninja. The film, which marks the 10th anniversary of the Naruto anime franchise, will open throughout Japan on July 28.

The magazine had already announced that the sixth Naruto Shippūden film and ninth Naruto film overall will open this summer. Naruto Shippūden: Blood Prison, the fifth Naruto Shippūden film, opened last July. Viz Media released the second Naruto Shippūden film, Naruto Shippuden the Movie: Bonds, in American theaters last October.

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Old 04-11-2012, 01:20 PM   #14
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Yeah, i already saw that, seems good, i'm glad they finally used the show's main villains for the movies

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Old 05-08-2012, 03:30 AM   #15
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If done right, yes.
It's not impossible, just like making movie adaptations of comic books wasn't impossible, they just need to find the right vision for this, Naruto has the potential o Harry Potter, kids empowerment, thrilling story and cool background and universe.
That's one big 'IF' there

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The first film should introduce the characters and the world with the Zabuza arc, and his abilities with the water could offer some cool scenarios
If they decrease plot induced stupidity it could be fine
My, is that arc stupid, it has too many faults I set a facebook album almost displaying how I feel about it, taking one picture from each episode

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Originally Posted by craigdbfan View Post
Naruto is far more intricate than DB/Z and complex when it comes to its narrative and story. The arcs interweave through different points in time and the terminology is even more difficult to a get a grasp of if you're some random American screenwriter with little to no experience or familiarity with manga.

Hollywood would completely fumble this into a muddy ditch.
To be frank, the series itself right now is in a muddy ditch, it's messed up badly, it gone there since Naruto had his talk with Nagato

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Old 05-08-2012, 05:13 PM   #16
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I don't see how it's a ''muddy ditch'' or even messed up. The writing and the action are still great and everything is connecting. Not to mention Kishi doesn't forget about his characters like, for example, Kubo, with Bleach.

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Old 05-11-2012, 01:55 PM   #17
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I don't see how it's a ''muddy ditch'' or even messed up. The writing and the action are still great and everything is connecting. Not to mention Kishi doesn't forget about his characters like, for example, Kubo, with Bleach.
Everything connected? A lot of things don't even make sence, for example, if the Uchihas were that big of a threat a 12 years old shouldn't be enough to kill them all, just like Nagato's character was obviously created after Pain was, and Kishi's interest in special eyes that took over the plot, just like Sharingan users are constantly finding a new ultimate technique.

And if you call that child of destiny crap connecting the plot you missed the part where in Part I Naruto showed that he could change his destiny, now Part II actually proved that Neji was right. There are things that are connected like Tobi having caused the attack, but many things still don't make a lot of sence and it's obvious that Kishi wrote without thinking about what would happen next.

Bleach's plot is very good either, it's event inferior to Naruto's but while he takes much time to reintroduce some characters the story is tied much better and things end up making more sence

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Old 05-11-2012, 08:44 PM   #18
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Everything connected? A lot of things don't even make sence, for example, if the Uchihas were that big of a threat a 12 years old shouldn't be enough to kill them all
Read again. I said everything connecting, not connected. What I mean is that the storylines are all coming together. Some already have. Naruto's past, his parents, the attack on the village, Tobi's involvement, Jiraya's prophecy with Nagato, Madara's true nature, the truth about Itachi and the real reason for the massacre, Kabuto's past and motives...
There are some left, like the reason Nagato had the Rinnegan, or why Madara knows about Tobi and even who he is, but we'll get there. There's many chapters ahead.

As for the ''12 years old who shouldn't be enough to kill them all''...who are you talking about? Naruto? Sasuke? Itachi? Let's make it clear before we continue to debate.

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just like Nagato's character was obviously created after Pain was, and Kishi's interest in special eyes that took over the plot, just like Sharingan users are constantly finding a new ultimate technique.
I don't see what points towards ''obvious'' to you on that aspect. Maybe, in the creative process, Nagato's design was created after that of Pain, since he needed a reason to do what he does and someone to control all of the six bodies without having six Rinnegan users. Maybe he was created before, who knows? Kishi hasn't stated that, as far as I know. But, if you mean that as an afterthought, then I have to disagree.

Since Pain's introduction, he has been talking about changing the world through wars, using the power of the bijuus. To have plans like that, he needs motives. He needs something to have this kind of philosophy. A drastic past experience to heavily push him forward, to have the Akatsuki and have such ambitious schemes. That's why Nagato wasn't an afterthought. From the beginning, we heard about Pain's objective. That remained until later and it was only fleshed out later what led to them. That is, what drastic experience changed him and built his character.

Add to that Jiraya's journey to find the child of the prophecy and his wish to change the world, which, in a way, he also imbued to Nagato, Yahiko and Konan when he trained them, once again, connecting two of the plots. If that was an afterthought, then it was a heck of a good afterthought, because it doesn't seem like that and it was done greatly. Jiraya's objectives built the character of Nagato. Nagato's philosophy pushed the character of Naruto. Naruto's growth revealed the character of Kurama.

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And if you call that child of destiny crap connecting the plot you missed the part where in Part I Naruto showed that he could change his destiny, now Part II actually proved that Neji was right.
No he wasn't. There isn't a destiny, because destiny is a bad joke. Destiny means what is already set in stone. But nothing is ever defined. Naruto started as a nothing. He fought his way through. He wasn't born with gifts, like the Uchiha clan, which get there techniques on a silver tray. His choices, his determination and the friends he made led him where he is right now. Noone forced him to be the way he is. He could simply have given up and quit or follow the same path Gaara followed in Part I, since he suffered the same thing.

The prophecy that the sage toad had told Jiraya about there being a destined child who would cause great changes in the world could mean anything. If Jiraya didn't choose to go on a journey, there would never have been a Pain the way there was and Naruto wouldn't make his big choice because of him. But he went on that Journey and that was because he wanted. He was seeking to free this world of all the hate and that wish was passed to the three kids he met during the war. Which was eventually passed on to Naruto.
In the end, what the toad sage said was: ''perhaps there were two destined childs'', refering to Nagato and Naruto. Nagato brought changes to the world. Bad changes, but he served as an example to Naruto, which led to his final answer, his decision to cleanse the world of all the hatred. Now, Naruto is the one changing the world. Good changes.

Heck, Jiraya also trained Minato, which was such a big influence, and Yahiko, who ''created'' the Akatsuki and had his determination passed to Konan and Nagato. Jiraya himself could be the destined child. In my vision, there were quite a few who could take that place, which makes this prophecy not mean too much. Like I said before, destiny is a bad joke. Nothing is set in stone. There's many paths one can follow.

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There are things that are connected like Tobi having caused the attack, but many things still don't make a lot of sence and it's obvious that Kishi wrote without thinking about what would happen next.
Once again, there's nothing pointing as obvious that Kishi didn't think this through. Some plots are so intricate and worked out that I'd say it was all thought out before he even started the manga. Tell me what you didn't understand and I'll try to explain to you (if it was already revealed in the manga, of course).

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Bleach's plot is very good either, it's event inferior to Naruto's but while he takes much time to reintroduce some characters the story is tied much better and things end up making more sence
The same thing you said for Naruto could be said for Bleach. Kubo probably does things as he goes. I remember him saying he didn't plan for the fight against the Hueco Mundo to last as long as it did. Also, the three week break he had was to think how he would do his last arc. In other words, he didn't have the story all planned out. Not to mention that the intention was to write this manga for ''another 10 years''. That didn't go exactly as planned, it seems.

Kubo just leaves the characters he creates. He doesn't create tue conclusions to some of his arcs. That's what one the things that pisses me off about his writing. There's a nice character named Kon which he completely ignored for the past years and served no purpose anymore outside of the anime, where they try to give him relevance, making it much better. He left some characters, like Grimmjow, the third and tenth Espada, after they lost, just there. Fallen. No explanation to what happened to some of them until recently. For a long time I wondered if Grimmjow had actually died. What to think of Stark, who lost in a similar way the third Espada did. Is he alive too?
It's like he doesn't really care. He is focused on doing great battles while the story is just going.

It's certainly a matter of opinion, but I don't think Bleach, as much as I love it, is anywhere close to the deepness of Naruto.

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Old 05-12-2012, 06:48 AM   #19
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Read again. I said everything connecting, not connected. What I mean is that the storylines are all coming together. Some already have. Naruto's past, his parents, the attack on the village, Tobi's involvement, Jiraya's prophecy with Nagato, Madara's true nature, the truth about Itachi and the real reason for the massacre, Kabuto's past and motives...
The real reason for the massacre should have been much better worked on, since the begining that it seemed like Itachi was more than he seemed, but he basically killed all his family, his best friend, and his girlfriend, but leted his younger brother live, and as i said, if the Uchihas were that big of a thread they wouldn't be all so easilly killed by a 12 years old (Itachi), shure he had Tobi's help, but it still made them look weak compared to other events that Konoha faced, like Orochimaru's and Pain's invasion.

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There are some left, like the reason Nagato had the Rinnegan, or why Madara knows about Tobi and even who he is, but we'll get there. There's many chapters ahead.
I was never mentioned those, i know the manga still has a lot of secrets to be revealed, and those don't seem like things Kishi would forget.

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As for the ''12 years old who shouldn't be enough to kill them all''...who are you talking about? Naruto? Sasuke? Itachi? Let's make it clear before we continue to debate.
I don't recall Naruto or Sasuke killing a clan when they were 12, so i was referring to Itachi.

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I don't see what points towards ''obvious'' to you on that aspect. Maybe, in the creative process, Nagato's design was created after that of Pain, since he needed a reason to do what he does and someone to control all of the six bodies without having six Rinnegan users. Maybe he was created before, who knows? Kishi hasn't stated that, as far as I know. But, if you mean that as an afterthought, then I have to disagree.
Kishi added piercings to Pain's design because he said it was to show that the Akatsuki leader (Pain) was into things that could cause pain to his oun body:
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Originally Posted by Kishi
He's Akatsuki's leader, so he has to look fairly cool, but I still wanted him to look dangerous. Since his name is 'Pain', I decided to add some piercings to his body, like he's the kind of guy who would inflict pain upon himself
He also showed to be adebt in many jutsus and it was mentioned that he knew many elements jutsus and etc.
The six paths, the Rinnegan and Nagato seem to have came much after the Akatsuki leader (Pain) was created by Kishi, i even saw fan's reactions during that time, when the Six Path weren't shoun and before he was revealed to be Nagato and most fan were quite disapointing when it turned out that a skinny man in a wheels chair and a emo atitude was the big Akatsuki boss.


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Since Pain's introduction, he has been talking about changing the world through wars, using the power of the bijuus. To have plans like that, he needs motives. He needs something to have this kind of philosophy. A drastic past experience to heavily push him forward, to have the Akatsuki and have such ambitious schemes. That's why Nagato wasn't an afterthought. From the beginning, we heard about Pain's objective. That remained until later and it was only fleshed out later what led to them. That is, what drastic experience changed him and built his character.
Drastic experience? The death of his parents, dog and best friend were enough to make him want to destroy an entire village and his former master? He wanted to make some little periods of piece through big wars, but that was just an escuse to destroy the village from where the ninjas that killed his parents came from. The idea isn't bad in fiction, watchmen being an example, but here it was just badly done because life was already like that in the Narutoverse, he would only be creating more little Nagatos.

And when Tobi comes up with a plan that would actually stop this endless cycle of wars and would stop other people from experience what Nagato did, you've got to wonder if it wouldn't have made more sence for him and Konan to know and contribute to Tobi's plan than nuking villages.

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Add to that Jiraya's journey to find the child of the prophecy and his wish to change the world, which, in a way, he also imbued to Nagato, Yahiko and Konan when he trained them, once again, connecting two of the plots. If that was an afterthought, then it was a heck of a good afterthought, because it doesn't seem like that and it was done greatly. Jiraya's objectives built the character of Nagato. Nagato's philosophy pushed the character of Naruto. Naruto's growth revealed the character of Kurama.
Naruto convincing Nagato as easily as he did was incredibly unrealistic, Pain was like a merciless killing machine when fighting Jiraya, his former master, even with the latter trying to convince him otherwise, then Naruto came to him with Talk no Jutsu and beat him with a book
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No he wasn't. There isn't a destiny, because destiny is a bad joke. Destiny means what is already set in stone. But nothing is ever defined. Naruto started as a nothing. He fought his way through. He wasn't born with gifts, like the Uchiha clan, which get there techniques on a silver tray. His choices, his determination and the friends he made led him where he is right now. Noone forced him to be the way he is. He could simply have given up and quit or follow the same path Gaara followed in Part I, since he suffered the same thing.
He was born with a demon inside him, a demon that gives him powers, Naruto only has like 5 techniques and seems to be the stronguest ninja in the world right now. And there seems to be a destiny, because Naruto was told time and time again how he is the destined child.

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The prophecy that the sage toad had told Jiraya about there being a destined child who would cause great changes in the world could mean anything. If Jiraya didn't choose to go on a journey, there would never have been a Pain the way there was and Naruto wouldn't make his big choice because of him. But he went on that Journey and that was because he wanted. He was seeking to free this world of all the hate and that wish was passed to the three kids he met during the war. Which was eventually passed on to Naruto.
In the end, what the toad sage said was: ''perhaps there were two destined childs'', refering to Nagato and Naruto. Nagato brought changes to the world. Bad changes, but he served as an example to Naruto, which led to his final answer, his decision to cleanse the world of all the hatred. Now, Naruto is the one changing the world. Good changes.
A person's destiny already being set, as seems to be the case right now has been used in fiction way too many time, it's a cliche that goes against Naruto's words in Part I, and it wasn't really needed at all, it could have been simply explained that Jiraya believed in Nagato, no need to go to the child of Prophecy as a way to tie all events, even using Aizen to tie all the events in the Bleach Universe before the time skip made more sence.

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Heck, Jiraya also trained Minato, which was such a big influence, and Yahiko, who ''created'' the Akatsuki and had his determination passed to Konan and Nagato. Jiraya himself could be the destined child. In my vision, there were quite a few who could take that place, which makes this prophecy not mean too much. Like I said before, destiny is a bad joke. Nothing is set in stone. There's many paths one can follow.
The Toad sage already revealed that Nagato and Naruto were the child of destiny.

Once again, there's nothing pointing as obvious that Kishi didn't think this through. Some plots are so intricate and worked out that I'd say it was all thought out before he even started the manga. Tell me what you didn't understand and I'll try to explain to you (if it was already revealed in the manga, of course).
I read the Manga and watched the anime, i often use the Naruto wikia and forums as references, and i'm not the only one realising that there are a lot of things in the manga that don't make sence, and could have been done better, another aftertought was the sage of six paths, it wasn't a coincidence that he was only mentioned after Pain did, even if most ninjas already knew about the legend, if kishi already had everything planed he would have mentioned the sage in Part I or in the earliest parts of Part II, sure it only became important then, but it would have surelly inspired Naruto even more.

Just like Madara was only mentioned right before his appearance (when Tobi's identity was revealed as Madara, before this was revealed to be false) during Itachi's fight, but i could give merit to Kishi for foreshadowing him and the first hokage's battle and relationship during the end of Part I with their statues.

Another obvious thing invented just for the plot and now droped during the war is Itachi's sickness, it was mentioned that he had this unnamed sickness that was killing him and was one of the main reasons why he was defeated by Sasuke, along with him wanting to lose, now that he was ressurrected he no longuer has that decease that from what i remember was making him blind too, that would be ok, if Kimimaro and Nagato weren't still with the deceases and problems they had in their bodies before the died.

I'm not even going to mention Sasuke and his constant change of personality or the defeciencies in Naruto and Sasuke's bonds.


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The same thing you said for Naruto could be said for Bleach. Kubo probably does things as he goes. I remember him saying he didn't plan for the fight against the Hueco Mundo to last as long as it did. Also, the three week break he had was to think how he would do his last arc. In other words, he didn't have the story all planned out. Not to mention that the intention was to write this manga for ''another 10 years''. That didn't go exactly as planned, it seems.
Most Mangakas probably do things as they go but look a bit to what will happen in the nearer future, and what tells you that the manga won't last for another 8-10 years? The last arc seems to still have a lot to give and he mentioned a lot of plot point that were going to be adressed in this final arc, like Ichigo's pure blood and what it meant, the quincies abilities and what happened to them, Aizen's return and the soul king.

Bleach is still probably going to last a lot more and this arc may become the biggest in the manga.


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Kubo just leaves the characters he creates. He doesn't create tue conclusions to some of his arcs. That's what one the things that pisses me off about his writing. There's a nice character named Kon which he completely ignored for the past years and served no purpose anymore outside of the anime, where they try to give him relevance, making it much better. He left some characters, like Grimmjow, the third and tenth Espada, after they lost, just there. Fallen. No explanation to what happened to some of them until recently. For a long time I wondered if Grimmjow had actually died. What to think of Stark, who lost in a similar way the third Espada did. Is he alive too?
It's like he doesn't really care. He is focused on doing great battles while the story is just going.
I won't argue with that, but in Naruto a lot of that happened with secondary characters too, Tenten never even got as much focus as Kon did, in Part II of Naruto many characters were forgotten, Sakura had potencial in the begining but became weak again

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It's certainly a matter of opinion, but I don't think Bleach, as much as I love it, is anywhere close to the deepness of Naruto.
Neither do i, but Kubo does try to explain everything that seemed coincidental, i liked Kon but he was allways just there for Manga/ Anime kind of jokes, Kubo is more focused on big battles. As i said before Bleach isn't as good as Naruto, but Kubo did explain why things were connected with Aizen and even answered questions that were as far ago as the soul society arc.

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Old 05-12-2012, 05:57 PM   #20
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The real reason for the massacre should have been much better worked on, since the begining that it seemed like Itachi was more than he seemed, but he basically killed all his family, his best friend, and his girlfriend, but leted his younger brother live, and as i said, if the Uchihas were that big of a thread they wouldn't be all so easilly killed by a 12 years old (Itachi), shure he had Tobi's help, but it still made them look weak compared to other events that Konoha faced, like Orochimaru's and Pain's invasion.
Compared to Itachi and Tobi, they were weak. No character from Konoha has come anywhere close to defeat Tobi, so that was a huge help Itachi had.
Don't forget that Itachi was a ANBU Captain at age 13. At the same age, Sasuke was finally awakening his Sharingan. Itachi already had the Mangekyou Sharingan at this time and Tobi as his tutor. He was a prodigy, a genius. He was too advanced compared to the others in his own clan, perhaps the entire village. I'll go as far to say he was the strongest of his clan. Nothing on the anime or manga has made be believe otherwise.

The reason for the massacre couldn't have been revealed at any other time because it was the turning point for Sasuke, and it was well worked. Itachi did it to avoid another war, which could cause the death of his brother anyway. Besides that, it couldn't have been revealed to Sasuke on the same day of the massacre because he would seek revenge on Konoha and Itachi didn't want that for Sasuke. His intentions were to make Sasuke the hero of the village, which failed because of Tobi.

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I don't recall Naruto or Sasuke killing a clan when they were 12, so i was referring to Itachi.
You didn't mention about killing a clan, just that a 12 years old shouldn't be enough to kill them. So I had to ask.
And it really wasn't, he had help.


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Kishi added piercings to Pain's design because he said it was to show that the Akatsuki leader (Pain) was into things that could cause pain to his oun body:
That's cool, even though it has nothing to do with his name, but his philosophy.
Kishi was even good enough to give meaning to those piercings, which were chakra rods.

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He also showed to be adebt in many jutsus and it was mentioned that he knew many elements jutsus and etc.
The six paths, the Rinnegan and Nagato seem to have came much after the Akatsuki leader (Pain) was created by Kishi
Who knows? Maybe, maybe not. The important thing is to make it plausible. i.e., not forced. I remember the first time I saw all of the six bodies together, after they showed their power, and I thought: ''this one will be a really huge threat, can't wait to see how they deal with him''. That was just a cool feeling that I rarely have.

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i even saw fan's reactions during that time, when the Six Path weren't shoun and before he was revealed to be Nagato and most fan were quite disapointing when it turned out that a skinny man in a wheels chair and a emo atitude was the big Akatsuki boss.
I don't remember exactly what I felt, but it was probably something like this too, which was compensated when he showed how boss he is when he fought Naruto, Bee and Itachi all at once in the war. Nagato is among my favorites once again.

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Drastic experience? The death of his parents, dog and best friend were enough to make him want to destroy an entire village and his former master? He wanted to make some little periods of piece through big wars, but that was just an escuse to destroy the village from where the ninjas that killed his parents came from. The idea isn't bad in fiction, watchmen being an example, but here it was just badly done because life was already like that in the Narutoverse, he would only be creating more little Nagatos.
If your parents die in front of you to protect you, won't this be a dramatic experience to you? Are you this insensitive?
This was just his first great pain. Add to that the fact that he lived in a period of war, in a place that was constantly under attack and under the rain. It's just such a horrible way of life. They had to be cautious all the time. They never knew when a bomb could fall into their own house and explode everything.

Then, later down the road, they're betrayed by their allies, whose leader obligates Nagato to kill his best friend - then leader of the Akatsuki, who brought them here and was his family for all this time - to save Konan, and even though Nagato can't find the strenght to kill him, Yahiko makes the move and forces Nagato to do it, to save their friend. This was his second great pain.

Nagato came from a time where all he saw was war, deaths, despair, pain and how many more countless things that would screw with someone's mind. If it wasn't for Jiraya and his friends, he probably would have gone mad way sooner. The point is, living in times like that, having the influence he had from others and being part of an organization, then it is only plausible that he would make-up his mind and have a stand against this whole situation. That he would want to do something regarding all this endless and ceaseless violence.

If you imagine his pain as just ''death of his parents, dog and friend'', without really examining the context of the situation, then you are bound to think it is forced.

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And when Tobi comes up with a plan that would actually stop this endless cycle of wars and would stop other people from experience what Nagato did, you've got to wonder if it wouldn't have made more sence for him and Konan to know and contribute to Tobi's plan than nuking villages.
Did they ever agree with Tobi? Did Tobi ever talked to them about his Moon's Eye plan, where he would have absolute control over every single one on Earth? I don't think Nagato and Konan would have agreed. How could they be so sure that Tobi would keep his word?

They had different agendas. Pain had his own objectives with the bijuus. Tobi had others. He basically wants to become the new Rikudo Sennin, be almighty powerfull - alone - and put everyone into an eternal genjutsu. Pain wanted the human being to learn how to be solidary after they knew the meaning of loss, desperation, hunger and all the horrible fluke of war for periods of time. His ideas conflict with Tobi's and I doubt one would agree with the other in the end.

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Naruto convincing Nagato as easily as he did was incredibly unrealistic, Pain was like a merciless killing machine when fighting Jiraya, his former master, even with the latter trying to convince him otherwise, then Naruto came to him with Talk no Jutsu and beat him with a book
He lost to Naruto in battle. There was nothing he could do. When he lost to Naruto, his ideals lost too. Besides, Pain was a merciless killing machine because they were just dead bodies. There was no emotion. Nagato is a little different. He gave the benefit of doubt to Naruto, who made Nagato believe once again things that he had long forgot. The later never had someone as open minded as Naruto since Yahiko died. It was the lack of this kind of influence on him that was missing. Nagato believed, someday, in all of those things Naruto talked about, Naruto just made he believe again.
I know it sounded forced to quite a few, since I read some other people talking about it, but I bought it. Not everyone is inclined to believe, but it doesn't mean it was unrealistic. Everyone has a different way of interpreting this whole scenary and it is a really complex one.

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He was born with a demon inside him, a demon that gives him powers, Naruto only has like 5 techniques and seems to be the stronguest ninja in the world right now. And there seems to be a destiny, because Naruto was told time and time again how he is the destined child.
A person's destiny already being set, as seems to be the case right now has been used in fiction way too many time, it's a cliche that goes against Naruto's words in Part I, and it wasn't really needed at all, it could have been simply explained that Jiraya believed in Nagato, no need to go to the child of Prophecy as a way to tie all events.
The Toad sage already revealed that Nagato and Naruto were the child of destiny.
So what? Bee also had a demon inside of him. Gaara was also born with a demon inside of him and, even though he started as a person full of hatred, he ended up as a Kazekage. Don't forget his stance, his speech before the war started, where he united everyone who were having arguments and fights just a minute ago. Everyone is cooperating in the war because of him, he united everyone. He brought a big change to the world. He could very well be the ''destined child''. There isn't THE destined child because anyone can possibly fill the role. All the toad sage has are blurry dreams. He can only speculate, like he thought there would be someone who would bring big changes to the world. Turns out, in his own words, there were two, meaning that, what he says, isn't defined in stone. Anything can happen. I can very well say that only Naruto is the destined child, or that Jiraya is, or that Nagato alone is, or even Tobi. Why not? He's the responsible to make all the nations unite as one. Perhaps, in the end, he'll reveal that as his big plan.

Anything can happen. This ''destined child'' oversight can be taken in many different ways.

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I read the Manga and watched the anime, i often use the Naruto wikia and forums as references, and i'm not the only one realising that there are a lot of things in the manga that don't make sence
You already said that, to which I replied: tell me what it is and I'll try to explain it to you.

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and could have been done better, another aftertought was the sage of six paths, it wasn't a coincidence that he was only mentioned after Pain did, even if most ninjas already knew about the legend, if kishi already had everything planed he would have mentioned the sage in Part I or in the earliest parts of Part II, sure it only became important then, but it would have surelly inspired Naruto even more.
Maybe, maybe not. His dream was to become Hokage, i.e, the most powerful in HIS village, not the most powerful ever. The sennin wasn't introduced earlier because he wasn't created then...or simply because it wasn't needed. Since everything needs an origin, I would bet he was created before the manga, since he started everything. From the bijuus to the manipulation of the chakra.
Everything has its due time to be introduced. The akatsuki, the bloodline limits, the other villages, the feudal lord...the list goes on. It'll be there when it needs to be there.

Take Naruto's parents, for example. It wouldn't have been so powerfull, down the road, if everything about them was revealed in the beginning, including Tobi's involvement.

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Just like Madara was only mentioned right before his appearance (when Tobi's identity was revealed as Madara, before this was revealed to be false) during Itachi's fight, but i could give merit to Kishi for foreshadowing him and the first hokage's battle and relationship during the end of Part I with their statues.
There, you just answered yourself. There was a Madara, way before his name was dropped, but Kishi didn't feel any need to introduce him, nor there was any.

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Another obvious thing invented just for the plot and now droped during the war is Itachi's sickness, it was mentioned that he had this unnamed sickness that was killing him and was one of the main reasons why he was defeated by Sasuke, along with him wanting to lose, now that he was ressurrected he no longuer has that decease that from what i remember was making him blind too, that would be ok, if Kimimaro and Nagato weren't still with the deceases and problems they had in their bodies before the died.
They're all edo tensei, they're not going to die. They're immortals. Sickness won't do a thing to them, that's why it isn't affecting them. Kimimaro was fighting normally in his last battle against Naruto, Lee and Gaara, and he almost killed all three of them. If the sickness didn't stop him before, let alone now, that he is immortal.
Nagato has a physical problem. His legs were greatly damaged in a battle against Hanzō, the Salamander. He can move his legs, but not good enough to help him in battle. He can't move as quickly as when he was in his prime.
The edo tensei, from what I read, is supposed to bring the dead the way he was before he died. Nagato remained like that for a very long time. When he recovered his powers using one of his paths, nothing stopped him.Until he was stopped, of course. Diseases ain't gonna stop the reincarnated.

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I'm not even going to mention Sasuke and his constant change of personality or the defeciencies in Naruto and Sasuke's bonds.
Sasuke is indeed too bipolar. One minute he is like a maniac, the other he seems like an educated boy who is still unsure of his objectives. That's one complaint I have, but I don't let that ruin my judgement of the story. It's just his character.

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Most Mangakas probably do things as they go but look a bit to what will happen in the nearer future, and what tells you that the manga won't last for another 8-10 years? The last arc seems to still have a lot to give and he mentioned a lot of plot point that were going to be adressed in this final arc, like Ichigo's pure blood and what it meant, the quincies abilities and what happened to them, Aizen's return and the soul king.

Bleach is still probably going to last a lot more and this arc may become the biggest in the manga.
I hope so, because the last one, in the manga at least, was pretty boring and uninteresting to me. Too bad he still conducts his story in such a slow, slow paced way.

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I won't argue with that, but in Naruto a lot of that happened with secondary characters too, Tenten never even got as much focus as Kon did, in Part II of Naruto many characters were forgotten, Sakura had potencial in the begining but became weak again
Kon only had more focus in the anime, where he was remembered in the fillers. In the manga, Tenten is still there, even though she performs so little. Kishi doesn't forget his characters, he just deviates the attention to where it is needed. Who cares about Tenten when there's a huge battle between Jiraya and Pain happening? Kubo just forgets they exist. I don't remember Kon showing up in this new arc either, and there were some panels inside of Ichigo's bedroom, where Kon supposedly stays all the time.

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Neither do i, but Kubo does try to explain everything that seemed coincidental, i liked Kon but he was allways just there for Manga/ Anime kind of jokes, Kubo is more focused on big battles. As i said before Bleach isn't as good as Naruto, but Kubo did explain why things were connected with Aizen and even answered questions that were as far ago as the soul society arc.
And Kishi isn't doing that? He's connecting all the loose points of Naruto. Soon, it'll be all over.

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Old 05-13-2012, 06:04 AM   #21
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Compared to Itachi and Tobi, they were weak. No character from Konoha has come anywhere close to defeat Tobi, so that was a huge help Itachi had.
Don't forget that Itachi was a ANBU Captain at age 13. At the same age, Sasuke was finally awakening his Sharingan. Itachi already had the Mangekyou Sharingan at this time and Tobi as his tutor. He was a prodigy, a genius. He was too advanced compared to the others in his own clan, perhaps the entire village. I'll go as far to say he was the strongest of his clan. Nothing on the anime or manga has made be believe otherwise.

The reason for the massacre couldn't have been revealed at any other time because it was the turning point for Sasuke, and it was well worked. Itachi did it to avoid another war, which could cause the death of his brother anyway. Besides that, it couldn't have been revealed to Sasuke on the same day of the massacre because he would seek revenge on Konoha and Itachi didn't want that for Sasuke. His intentions were to make Sasuke the hero of the village, which failed because of Tobi.

You didn't mention about killing a clan, just that a 12 years old shouldn't be enough to kill them. So I had to ask.
And it really wasn't, he had help.


That's cool, even though it has nothing to do with his name, but his philosophy.
Kishi was even good enough to give meaning to those piercings, which were chakra rods.


Who knows? Maybe, maybe not. The important thing is to make it plausible. i.e., not forced. I remember the first time I saw all of the six bodies together, after they showed their power, and I thought: ''this one will be a really huge threat, can't wait to see how they deal with him''. That was just a cool feeling that I rarely have.

I don't remember exactly what I felt, but it was probably something like this too, which was compensated when he showed how boss he is when he fought Naruto, Bee and Itachi all at once in the war. Nagato is among my favorites once again.

If your parents die in front of you to protect you, won't this be a dramatic experience to you? Are you this insensitive?
This was just his first great pain. Add to that the fact that he lived in a period of war, in a place that was constantly under attack and under the rain. It's just such a horrible way of life. They had to be cautious all the time. They never knew when a bomb could fall into their own house and explode everything.

Then, later down the road, they're betrayed by their allies, whose leader obligates Nagato to kill his best friend - then leader of the Akatsuki, who brought them here and was his family for all this time - to save Konan, and even though Nagato can't find the strenght to kill him, Yahiko makes the move and forces Nagato to do it, to save their friend. This was his second great pain.

Nagato came from a time where all he saw was war, deaths, despair, pain and how many more countless things that would screw with someone's mind. If it wasn't for Jiraya and his friends, he probably would have gone mad way sooner. The point is, living in times like that, having the influence he had from others and being part of an organization, then it is only plausible that he would make-up his mind and have a stand against this whole situation. That he would want to do something regarding all this endless and ceaseless violence.

If you imagine his pain as just ''death of his parents, dog and friend'', without really examining the context of the situation, then you are bound to think it is forced.


Did they ever agree with Tobi? Did Tobi ever talked to them about his Moon's Eye plan, where he would have absolute control over every single one on Earth? I don't think Nagato and Konan would have agreed. How could they be so sure that Tobi would keep his word?

They had different agendas. Pain had his own objectives with the bijuus. Tobi had others. He basically wants to become the new Rikudo Sennin, be almighty powerfull - alone - and put everyone into an eternal genjutsu. Pain wanted the human being to learn how to be solidary after they knew the meaning of loss, desperation, hunger and all the horrible fluke of war for periods of time. His ideas conflict with Tobi's and I doubt one would agree with the other in the end.


He lost to Naruto in battle. There was nothing he could do. When he lost to Naruto, his ideals lost too. Besides, Pain was a merciless killing machine because they were just dead bodies. There was no emotion. Nagato is a little different. He gave the benefit of doubt to Naruto, who made Nagato believe once again things that he had long forgot. The later never had someone as open minded as Naruto since Yahiko died. It was the lack of this kind of influence on him that was missing. Nagato believed, someday, in all of those things Naruto talked about, Naruto just made he believe again.
I know it sounded forced to quite a few, since I read some other people talking about it, but I bought it. Not everyone is inclined to believe, but it doesn't mean it was unrealistic. Everyone has a different way of interpreting this whole scenary and it is a really complex one.

So what? Bee also had a demon inside of him. Gaara was also born with a demon inside of him and, even though he started as a person full of hatred, he ended up as a Kazekage. Don't forget his stance, his speech before the war started, where he united everyone who were having arguments and fights just a minute ago. Everyone is cooperating in the war because of him, he united everyone. He brought a big change to the world. He could very well be the ''destined child''. There isn't THE destined child because anyone can possibly fill the role. All the toad sage has are blurry dreams. He can only speculate, like he thought there would be someone who would bring big changes to the world. Turns out, in his own words, there were two, meaning that, what he says, isn't defined in stone. Anything can happen. I can very well say that only Naruto is the destined child, or that Jiraya is, or that Nagato alone is, or even Tobi. Why not? He's the responsible to make all the nations unite as one. Perhaps, in the end, he'll reveal that as his big plan.

Anything can happen. This ''destined child'' oversight can be taken in many different ways.

You already said that, to which I replied: tell me what it is and I'll try to explain it to you.

Maybe, maybe not. His dream was to become Hokage, i.e, the most powerful in HIS village, not the most powerful ever. The sennin wasn't introduced earlier because he wasn't created then...or simply because it wasn't needed. Since everything needs an origin, I would bet he was created before the manga, since he started everything. From the bijuus to the manipulation of the chakra.
Everything has its due time to be introduced. The akatsuki, the bloodline limits, the other villages, the feudal lord...the list goes on. It'll be there when it needs to be there.

Take Naruto's parents, for example. It wouldn't have been so powerfull, down the road, if everything about them was revealed in the beginning, including Tobi's involvement.

There, you just answered yourself. There was a Madara, way before his name was dropped, but Kishi didn't feel any need to introduce him, nor there was any.


They're all edo tensei, they're not going to die. They're immortals. Sickness won't do a thing to them, that's why it isn't affecting them. Kimimaro was fighting normally in his last battle against Naruto, Lee and Gaara, and he almost killed all three of them. If the sickness didn't stop him before, let alone now, that he is immortal.
Nagato has a physical problem. His legs were greatly damaged in a battle against Hanzō, the Salamander. He can move his legs, but not good enough to help him in battle. He can't move as quickly as when he was in his prime.
The edo tensei, from what I read, is supposed to bring the dead the way he was before he died. Nagato remained like that for a very long time. When he recovered his powers using one of his paths, nothing stopped him.Until he was stopped, of course. Diseases ain't gonna stop the reincarnated.

I hope so, because the last one, in the manga at least, was pretty boring and uninteresting to me. Too bad he still conducts his story in such a slow, slow paced way.

Kon only had more focus in the anime, where he was remembered in the fillers. In the manga, Tenten is still there, even though she performs so little. Kishi doesn't forget his characters, he just deviates the attention to where it is needed. Who cares about Tenten when there's a huge battle between Jiraya and Pain happening? Kubo just forgets they exist. I don't remember Kon showing up in this new arc either, and there were some panels inside of Ichigo's bedroom, where Kon supposedly stays all the time.

And Kishi isn't doing that? He's connecting all the loose points of Naruto. Soon, it'll be all over.

Since all out discussion with so many posts is becoming quite big i decided to contrain it in a single answer. Those piercings becoming chakra roads also angered some fans, probably because some wanted Pain to be a normal ninja that knew a lot of tricks instead of just another guy with special eyes. I actually liked the rinnegan, but moving on.

Kishi gave the Sharingan users quite too much power, even Rinnegan, which was supposed to be the ultimate eye technique isn't as powerful as the sharingan is right now, sure it gives the ability to use the six path, the seventh path and the ability to master all five basic nature transformations, while Sharingan can :
-mimick enemy techniques
-memorise any technique seen
-Hypnotic abilities
-controling jinchuurikies
-Using Amateratsu, flames that burn almost anything
-Using Kamui, which pratically desintegrates what's on sight (transports to another dimension but it can be used to easily kill oponents)
-Kotoamatsukami which manipulates minds
-Susanoo, which defends almost every technique
-Tsukuyomi which can make an enemy think he's being tortured for many days
-Izanagi, which basically alters reality.

Sure that not everybody can awake these techniques, but those that do become way overpowered, and considering that all the sharingan users we've seen in the story that survived until in least Part I were able to wake techniques that were considered rare you've got to wonder if Sharingan isn't way too powerful.

Kishi even tried to tie the Rinnegan into the Sharingan by making it an evolution of the former, then what about the other great eye technique? The Byakugan, which was basically forgotten after Part I, it's still possible that this question is answered, but since right now the Byakugan isn't being important to the plot and Tobi wasn't interested in it i doubt it.

What i meant with Nagato's past is that Tobi's plan would fit better with the peace he wanted, what he was doing was taking revenge on Konoha, and after the six paths were defeated he was still able to ressurrect everybody, then wouldn't he also be able to fly and use other techniques like Deva path and what the rinnegan gave him? Just like he did during the war? Not to mention that Konan was with him and could have fought Naruto too.

Considering that Madara was expecting to be ressurrected by Nagato, then Tobi should have told him the plan, it's in fact the plan that makes more sence for why they were after jinchuurikies.

And not mentioning the sage of six paths before shows that the character and legend wasn't created before, everybody knew this story, it could have even been told when referring to Sharingan and Byakugan in the chunin exams.

Now, Nagato's past was tragic, i actually think it was well made, but Nagato was how he was allways saying that his past was the true meaning of Pain, and that only he could underastand pain was too much, the Naruto world is full of people with sad stories:
Everybody despised Naruto in his childhood, his parents were killed when he was a baby and he had to take care of himself and he's now a normal person and an example to follow, Neji was born in the hyuga branch house and from a young age that he gave hope of his future, along with his father dying for the sake of the main branch, now he's a normal young man. Gaara was a 13 years old psycho that had the urge to kill and believed he was a monster, along with his father not liking him very much and his mother having died giving him birth, his brothers were even afraid of him, now he's the Kazekage. And i believe there are many more examples, Sasuke is basically following Nagato's example by going to kill an entire village just because of the actions of some some 5 people.

Nagato's past was tragic, and that is reasonn enough for somebody to act evil towards a certain good goal, but he would only cause even more pain, Tobi's goal seems like something more fitting to Nagato than nuking a village, there would be no more pain in the world, maybe if Tobi told him this he would agree with the plan, or maybe not, but i think this was a mather of Kishi not being shure for which goal he wanted the Akatsuki to collect Jinchuriki.

Another thing that i find despicable is how being the son of the fourth Hokage Naruto was treated like he was, i understand that telling everybody that he was the 4th Hokage's son could make somebody with a grudge target him (even if everybody in the sand knew Gaara was the Kazekage's son, just like everybody knows konohamaru is the 3rd Hokage's grandson) but letting everybody from konoha treat him like they did? Not only was that bad for a child of his age but wouldn't making him angry wake up the nine tails? That's like throwing rocks to bomb.

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Sasuke is indeed too bipolar. One minute he is like a maniac, the other he seems like an educated boy who is still unsure of his objectives. That's one complaint I have, but I don't let that ruin my judgement of the story. It's just his character.
I'm actually one fan that liked the Tobi twist, Itachi being a good guy, Sasuke leaving Konoha and other things, in the narutoforums it's some 85% of people bashing Naruto Part II, saying how One Piece is miles better than Naruto, even if their supposed to be in a forum devoted to the naruto manga.

By the way, going back to Bleach, kon didn't return after Aizen's defeat because Ishigo was no longuer a shinigami, he was no longuer needed, i think i saw somewhere that he went to soul society or something like that.

I didn't read the new story arc in the manga with the fullbringers, i only started reading from the begining of the last arc, but saw the anime and wasn't that bad, it wasn't bad to have a smaller arc instead of one that last for years. Since i watched the anime when the arc was already over the hueco mundo and battle with Aizen being big didn't bother me that much, but for those that were reading it when it was released and having to wait 5 years for everything to be over it must have been a pain.

Saying something on the topic of this thread i think that adapting Shonen manga is like adapting superhero comic books, in fact both aim for the same target audience, it's just a mather of knowing how to adapt, Naruto actually has straightforward storyline that can work in film if done right, and less manga types of jokes than lets say, Fairy Tail. Some effort has to be put along with people with vision, Dragon Ball Evolution was just a studio being dumb and trying to get money from a big franchise without putting much effort, instead of actually trying to get it right, the story of a boy that discovers the world for the first time has its charm to it, they should have tried to make it more of a film where the audience can apreciate the road like in the first DB storyline.

With Naruto you have a boy that wants people to aknowledge him, somebody that was hated since he remembers, and he wants to prove himself, that's how they need to view it, once they make an anime/ manga adaptation right then these source materials may continue to give studios success like superhero movies are dong right now

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Plenty of male-led action films fail, yet the actors' gender is not blamed. Why should it be different for women? Especially since far more male-led action films are made than female-led action films?

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Old 05-13-2012, 04:07 PM   #22
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Kishi gave the Sharingan users quite too much power, even Rinnegan, which was supposed to be the ultimate eye technique isn't as powerful as the sharingan is right now, sure it gives the ability to use the six path, the seventh path and the ability to master all five basic nature transformations, while Sharingan can :
-mimick enemy techniques
-memorise any technique seen
-Hypnotic abilities
-controling jinchuurikies
-Using Amateratsu, flames that burn almost anything
-Using Kamui, which pratically desintegrates what's on sight (transports to another dimension but it can be used to easily kill oponents)
-Kotoamatsukami which manipulates minds
-Susanoo, which defends almost every technique
-Tsukuyomi which can make an enemy think he's being tortured for many days
-Izanagi, which basically alters reality.

Sure that not everybody can awake these techniques, but those that do become way overpowered, and considering that all the sharingan users we've seen in the story that survived until in least Part I were able to wake techniques that were considered rare you've got to wonder if Sharingan isn't way too powerful.
It most certainly is. The Sharingan basically gives the Uchiha their powers. If they have Sharingan, then they have a sum of abilities to unlock. They don't have to work their ass as hard as some other shinobi to learn their techniques, like Naruto for example. Even though he has the Kyuubi inside of him, he had to defeat it to finally being able to use it's powers without being controlled. And, for that, he had to train hard to learn a lot of different jutsus and the Sennin mode. No one gave that to him.

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Kishi even tried to tie the Rinnegan into the Sharingan by making it an evolution of the former, then what about the other great eye technique? The Byakugan, which was basically forgotten after Part I, it's still possible that this question is answered, but since right now the Byakugan isn't being important to the plot and Tobi wasn't interested in it i doubt it.
I used to put a lot of thought into that, but I think I heard it once that it's just a mutation of the Sharingan. Perhaps it will be explained later, but maybe it's just one more kekkei genkai, like the Mokuton, Jinton, the split body ability from the previous Tsuchikage and so many others.

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What i meant with Nagato's past is that Tobi's plan would fit better with the peace he wanted, what he was doing was taking revenge on Konoha, and after the six paths were defeated he was still able to ressurrect everybody, then wouldn't he also be able to fly and use other techniques like Deva path and what the rinnegan gave him? Just like he did during the war? Not to mention that Konan was with him and could have fought Naruto too.
After he used Shibaku Tensei and continued to fight Naruto after that, probably there wasn't too much chakra left, hence why he died when he ressurected everyone and his hair became white. But that's not important. Like I said before, he had his own plans, Tobi had his and he probably didn't share his vision with Pain, most certainly because he wouldn't agree. He would be controlled, like everyone else and, once again, who could say for sure that Tobi would keep his word? Everyone would simply be controlled in this false peace. The world would be full of zombies where just one man controls the people the way he wants and does anything he wants. I don't think Nagato would agree to that. He wanted the human being to genuinely understand each other.

Quote:
Considering that Madara was expecting to be ressurrected by Nagato, then Tobi should have told him the plan, it's in fact the plan that makes more sence for why they were after jinchuurikies.
Well, that's opinion, I wouldn't agree to make someone I don't trust more powerful than everyone else, because that is what Tobi would become, and I don't think Madara, as power hungry and arrogant as he is, would agree either. Tobi and Madara probably don't share their plans either, hence why Tobi showed concern when Kabuto showed him Madara's body while still in the coffin. Besides, I don't think Nagato can ressurect everyone, just people that have been recently killed. That's why Jiraya didn't come back.

Quote:
And not mentioning the sage of six paths before shows that the character and legend wasn't created before, everybody knew this story, it could have even been told when referring to Sharingan and Byakugan in the chunin exams.
Once again, maybe. Maybe not. Everything in its due time to be explained.

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And i believe there are many more examples, Sasuke is basically following Nagato's example by going to kill an entire village just because of the actions of some some 5 people.
The difference between the two is that Nagato didn't act with revenge in his mind. He had a much grander objective that he was following religiously. He went to Konoha to get the Jinchuuriki and he destroyed it because it was one of the great villages of that world. The pain would begin there.
Besides, I think, by seeing his character, that he is intelligent and open minded enough to not judge and entire village because of two chuunin who erroneously killed his parents, that's one more motive why he was also more easily convinced by Naruto than Sasuke is. Sasuke is close minded and stupid. Wants to wage war in an entire village because of a few. Even if he thinks he is wrong, he won't admit it, he's too stubborn for that. It's like some people I met on the SHH boards.

Quote:
Another thing that i find despicable is how being the son of the fourth Hokage Naruto was treated like he was, i understand that telling everybody that he was the 4th Hokage's son could make somebody with a grudge target him (even if everybody in the sand knew Gaara was the Kazekage's son, just like everybody knows konohamaru is the 3rd Hokage's grandson) but letting everybody from konoha treat him like they did? Not only was that bad for a child of his age but wouldn't making him angry wake up the nine tails? That's like throwing rocks to bomb.
That's a good point. Maybe it was because Minato participated more actively on the last war, fighting the Raikage himself and made a lot of recent enemies. But probably it's because they didn't want other villages to know that the Kyuubi was sealed in Naruto. After all, they tried to capture his mother, who was a jinchuuriki too. It could happen again if they knew it about Naruto.

Quote:
By the way, going back to Bleach, kon didn't return after Aizen's defeat because Ishigo was no longuer a shinigami, he was no longuer needed, i think i saw somewhere that he went to soul society or something like that.
I don't think that's a reason. He wasn't there because Ichigo needed him anyway. Besides, he was a pill that the SS wanted to destroy. I don't think he'd agree to return.
Kubo just forgot about him.
Quote:
Q: I’d really like to see her interactions with Kon.
Kubo: Kon did not appear in the Lost Agent arc. But to tell the truth, he has rarely appeared since the end of the Soul Society arc, roughly five years ago. (laugh) People who only recently started reading might not know that he exists. (laugh)
Q: It can’t be that you’ve forgotten him?
Kubo: (laugh)
http://www.saiyanisland.com/2012/02/...olume-2-stage/

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I didn't read the new story arc in the manga with the fullbringers, i only started reading from the begining of the last arc, but saw the anime and wasn't that bad, it wasn't bad to have a smaller arc instead of one that last for years. Since i watched the anime when the arc was already over the hueco mundo and battle with Aizen being big didn't bother me that much, but for those that were reading it when it was released and having to wait 5 years for everything to be over it must have been a pain.
I agree.
I'm glad I followed the arc only in the anime.
I thought the Fullbringer arc was pretty boring in the manga, but that was because of how Kubo does it. So little happens in each chapter. In the anime, I thought it was pretty good. So much more happened in each episode. They even added some filler scenes that added to the overall story, not to mention the ending, which was absent in the manga. It was overall much better, imo.

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Old 05-13-2012, 04:46 PM   #23
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Originally Posted by Jick09 View Post
Besides, I don't think Nagato can ressurect everyone, just people that have been recently killed. That's why Jiraya didn't come back.
Actually, when Madara walked out of his coffin he tought it was Nagato who ressurrected him

Quote:
Sasuke is close minded and stupid. Wants to wage war in an entire village because of a few. Even if he thinks he is wrong, he won't admit it, he's too stubborn for that. It's like some people I met on the SHH boards.
True about Sasuke, i think that him and many of the female characters could have been written better. By the way, are you referring to me in that SHH reference?

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That's a good point. Maybe it was because Minato participated more actively on the last war, fighting the Raikage himself and made a lot of recent enemies. But probably it's because they didn't want other villages to know that the Kyuubi was sealed in Naruto. After all, they tried to capture his mother, who was a jinchuuriki too. It could happen again if they knew it about Naruto.
But the other Jinchuurikies weren't being as guarded, i believe Kishi only came up with the idea of Tobi being behind Naruto's origin recently:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Masashi Kishimoto
The character Naruto represents a little bit of myself and a little bit of my child. It was after my child was born that I wanted to write about Naruto’s parents. The way Naruto’s parents feel about him is very close to how I feel toward to my kids.
And he needed a reason to write about Naruto's parents. Mostly i believe that he tought of the story as he went, expecially in the begining before Oroshimaru and the Akatsuki came into the picture.

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I don't think that's a reason. He wasn't there because Ichigo needed him anyway. Besides, he was a pill that the SS wanted to destroy. I don't think he'd agree to return.
Kubo just forgot about him.

http://www.saiyanisland.com/2012/02/...olume-2-stage/
Lol, that was a sad move for Kon fans

Quote:
I agree.
I'm glad I followed the arc only in the anime.
I thought the Fullbringer arc was pretty boring in the manga, but that was because of how Kubo does it. So little happens in each chapter. In the anime, I thought it was pretty good. So much more happened in each episode. They even added some filler scenes that added to the overall story, not to mention the ending, which was absent in the manga. It was overall much better, imo
Was it that bad in the manga? I still have to read it, i liked some things in the Fullbring arc, expecially some characters and Ichigo's Fullbring costume. But from reading this new arc of Bleach Kubo's pacing is really slow, which is a shame as we'll probably have to wait some 5-8 years before the soul king appears or Aizen returns.

I do know that his slow pacing went against him some times by making Aizen vs the captain long while Aizen vs Ishigo was rushed, and there was a plot point that he wanted to add in hueco mundo but because of time it was only used in the anime.

Kubo also forgot bout Hell, because of that he no longuer has time to use it in the manga and so had to use it's elements for the film.

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Plenty of male-led action films fail, yet the actors' gender is not blamed. Why should it be different for women? Especially since far more male-led action films are made than female-led action films?
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Old 05-13-2012, 05:10 PM   #24
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Actually, when Madara walked out of his coffin he tought it was Nagato who ressurrected him
I remember him mentioning something about a kid with the Rinnegan. It's probably part of his plans and it most likely will be explained further on...I hope, because it seems Kabuto is about to release the Edo Tensei.

Quote:
True about Sasuke, i think that him and many of the female characters could have been written better. By the way, are you referring to me in that SHH reference?
lol
No, it's some people on the Games section and in the Spider-Man boards.

Quote:
But the other Jinchuurikies weren't being as guarded, i believe Kishi only came up with the idea of Tobi being behind Naruto's origin recently:
And he needed a reason to write about Naruto's parents. Mostly i believe that he tought of the story as he went, expecially in the begining before Oroshimaru and the Akatsuki came into the picture.
According to Kishi himself, he already planned to write about his parents, it just wasn't to going be as developed as it was:
Quote:
Masashi Kishimoto
I was initially going to make the flashback about Naruto’s parents very short. But learning about his parents became crucial so that Naruto could become aware of his identity.
http://www.saiyanisland.com/2012/02/...o-interview/2/

And I liked that he did it. I felt it was quite emotional and we could learn more about his mother and father.

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Was it that bad in the manga? I still have to read it, i liked some things in the Fullbring arc, expecially some characters and Ichigo's Fullbring costume. But from reading this new arc of Bleach Kubo's pacing is really slow, which is a shame as we'll probably have to wait some 5-8 years before the soul king appears or Aizen returns.
Aizen and Grimmjow's are the returns I'm most anticipating.

Quote:
Kubo also forgot bout Hell, because of that he no longuer has time to use it in the manga and so had to use it's elements for the film.
And I liked the movie. Nothing really special, but the action was cool, and it was nice to see the Full Hollow Ichigo form once again.

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Old 05-13-2012, 05:22 PM   #25
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I didn't see the hell movie yet but i do know that Kubo designed hell, i'm anticipating Aizen and the soul king more because Aizen was a badass that trolled the entire gotei twice, while the soul king has been being refenced since before the soul society arc.

I also want to see Grimmjow, and i'm shure he's going to be important, considering that they are already in hueco mundo he's probably going to appear soon.

As for Sasuke, i did like the idea of making him a friend turned enemy to be original from the comon enemy turned ally in shonen manga, but Kishi should have done it a little better, as you said, Sasuke is a bit too bipolar, some times he is glad to be with his brother, other times he's a lunatic murderer that will do anything to acomplish his goals

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