Wonder Woman Thread Reborn! - Part 6

[The Guard]

It would certainly help to flesh out Hippolyta as well, not just Diana.

[Cain]

Originally Posted by ClarkLuther55

I don't know why people are acting like Diana being born from a clay sculpture is too hard to understand. The 2009 animated movie pulled it off easily in about a minute of screen time.

Some people here are saying that it doesn't do anything to explain Diana's motivation. I believe it does. People are shaped by both nature and nurture. How others see someone affects how they treat her, and how she will turn out.

Read some Perez issues. Hippolyte is an extremely concerned and protective mother. What better way to explain this than with Diana's birth? The animated movie did that scene after the initial battle, which depicted the Amazons' suffering at Ares's hands. Hippolyte mentioned how Ares slew the Amazons' mates, and also how the evil Thrax was the result of her being raped.

In the scene when she sculpts Diana out of clay, the narration explains that she desperately wanted a child of her own, who wasn't the product of such an unholy union. She was a woman who had been through so much, and lost almost everything. Having a child of her own to love was the most basic and primal thing that she could want, to make up for all of that. After going through so much, and finally getting the daughter that she had prayed for out of a sheer miracle of the gods, why wouldn't she treasure and protect her? Why wouldn't the rest of the Amazons heap their love and affection on this miracle child, the child in their entire nation?

And of course, one of the few other constants throught Wonder Woman's history is that she defies her mother and competes in the tournament, so that she can leave home to see the outside world/be with the man that she loves. This is a very natural reaction from someone who's been sheltered her entire life. This kind of story shows up in Disney princesses, Star Wars, and numerous coming of age stories. It's a timeless setup, but I think that it's particularly relevant today.

Is anyone here in their early twenties to mid thirties? Then you're in Generation Y, the "Peter Pan" generation. The generation with "helicopter parents" who hovered over their kids and kept pushing them to do better. The generation where it's normal to stay home after graduating college and finding a job, partially because parents DON'T want their kids to go out there and make their own way in the world. The generation that's more forward thinking than their parents, who look to the past and think that they always know what's best. Not everyone is the same, but those are the patterns that have been observed throughout the population.

I think that giving the right emphasis to the Diana/Hippolyte relationship taps into all of that.

That movie was an excellent adaptation; still my favorite of the DTV bunch

[DrCosmic]

Originally Posted by ClarkLuther55

I don't know why people are acting like Diana being born from a clay sculpture is too hard to understand. The 2009 animated movie pulled it off easily in about a minute of screen time.

Some people here are saying that it doesn't do anything to explain Diana's motivation. I believe it does. People are shaped by both nature and nurture. How others see someone affects how they treat her, and how she will turn out.

Read some Perez issues. Hippolyte is an extremely concerned and protective mother. What better way to explain this than with Diana's birth? The animated movie did that scene after the initial battle, which depicted the Amazons' suffering at Ares's hands. Hippolyte mentioned how Ares slew the Amazons' mates, and also how the evil Thrax was the result of her being raped.

In the scene when she sculpts Diana out of clay, the narration explains that she desperately wanted a child of her own, who wasn't the product of such an unholy union. She was a woman who had been through so much, and lost almost everything. Having a child of her own to love was the most basic and primal thing that she could want, to make up for all of that. After going through so much, and finally getting the daughter that she had prayed for out of a sheer miracle of the gods, why wouldn't she treasure and protect her? Why wouldn't the rest of the Amazons heap their love and affection on this miracle child, the child in their entire nation?

And of course, one of the few other constants throught Wonder Woman's history is that she defies her mother and competes in the tournament, so that she can leave home to see the outside world/be with the man that she loves. This is a very natural reaction from someone who's been sheltered her entire life. This kind of story shows up in Disney princesses, Star Wars, and numerous coming of age stories. It's a timeless setup, but I think that it's particularly relevant today.

Is anyone here in their early twenties to mid thirties? Then you're in Generation Y, the "Peter Pan" generation. The generation with "helicopter parents" who hovered over their kids and kept pushing them to do better. The generation where it's normal to stay home after graduating college and finding a job, partially because parents DON'T want their kids to go out there and make their own way in the world. The generation that's more forward thinking than their parents, who look to the past and think that they always know what's best. Not everyone is the same, but those are the patterns that have been observed throughout the population.

I think that giving the right emphasis to the Diana/Hippolyte relationship taps into all of that.

If you recall the discussion you're referring to, the issue is that it's hard to connect to emotionally. In a DTV cartoon, you can sort of cram a lot of exposition into a small space of time, and it's okay. People have a greater suspension of disbelief for cartoons. It's just the perception/expectation.

Green Lantern is a GREAT example. A lot of heavy exposition in the beginning in any case. In the DTV, it was great, and successful. In the Movie, it was off putting. I think The WW DTV did a brilliant job by putting all that exposition in a fight scene, but even the assumptions there rely on a pretty hefty suspension of disbelief. If Immortals or Clash of the Titans had started off with Ares and a human in battle with armies and stuff, there'd be a loss emotionally.

I really can't emphasize the issue is not intellectual comprehension, it's emotional appreciation. Thats' what you have to 'earn' from an audience. You can't just assume it's there.

There certainly is an emphasis to be had on Hippolyta and Diana's relationship, just like Alfred and Bruce's relationship, but it would be odd to make that a central theme in the film, as this parental perspective is far from universal, and certainly not the most gripping emotional line to tow.

[Blackman]

I'm really skeptical of the "clay origin/emotion appreciation, loss, etc" idea if I'm understanding it right. I dont think the GA will notice or care that much

[metaphysician]

Amusingly enough, the Justice League cartoon didn't use the clay origin. . .

[mhenshaw]

Originally Posted by metaphysician

Amusingly enough, the Justice League cartoon didn't use the clay origin. . .

I don't think the Justice League cartoon ever discussed any of the heroes' origins, did it?

[Blackman]

not in detail, no.

[metaphysician]

It did, however, make fairly clear that Diana's father was Hades.

[Lobo]

Actually Hades said that he sculpted Diana together with Hippolyta so she was still made from clay on Justice League. Just watched that ep the other day

[metaphysician]

Huh, that must have been a different episode. Still, at least Hades was involved.

[Olan]

I wishd I had seen this post earlier I would have voted for Gina Carano.

[terry78]

Watching the newest Young Justice now, and I like how WW is portrayed here. Muscular, but not like overtly muscular, and she uses the lasso in battle.

[Bruce_Begins]

Originally Posted by Olan

I wishd I had seen this post earlier I would have voted for Gina Carano.

Meh.

Gina Carano looks like Alex Ross' Wonder Woman, and I hate that look.

[Artistsean]

I didn't make this, but found it on google...

[ЯɘvlveR]

Originally Posted by Artistsean

I didn't make this, but found it on google...

****ing brilliant! she's perfect.

[Brian Braddock]

Originally Posted by Bruce_Begins

Meh.

Gina Carano looks like Alex Ross' Wonder Woman, and I hate that look.

I don't agree. The main criticism of Ross' WW is that she looks too manish and if that's what you mean then I'd have to submit that Carano looks anything but.

[ЯɘvlveR]

while i agree that ross's wondy is a bit maculine, (to be honest, she kinda looks like ross's supes too) there is a bit of a resemblance, the difference is, gina has the sort sex appeal you can't really get from a piece of art.

[Lobo]

Carano is MUCH prettier than Ross' tranny WW IMO. No one here would deny Carano has the ideal physique for the character.

[Ultra Nolanite]

Originally Posted by Bruce_Begins

Meh.

Gina Carano looks like Alex Ross' Wonder Woman, and I hate that look.

Yeah !

Give us Adam Hughes Wonder Woman or GTFO !

[jmc]

As much as I love Ross' work his chicks are too butch looking. Gina is 10 times better looking.

[jaymes_e06]

Originally Posted by Ultra Nolanite

Yeah !

Give us Adam Hughes Wonder Woman or GTFO !

This. That is who I think of when I think of the quintessential WW.

[terry78]

Ross draws his characters more or less like real people dressing as the characters, so it doesn't come off as fantastical as the more cartoony default versions do.

[Joker's Lackey]

I like Carano if they are doing a more established story where she is already WW. I would want Yustman for an origins movie.

[Joker's Lackey]

Also, I wouldn't mind Serinda Swan for either.

[jaymes_e06]

Originally Posted by terry78

Ross draws his characters more or less like real people dressing as the characters, so it doesn't come off as fantastical as the more cartoony default versions do.

I'd say Adam Hughes' proportions are basically the same as Alex Ross' except theres no photo realism to it.