All Things Superman: An Open Discussion - Part 9

[hopefuldreamer]

Meh, I wouldn't mind if there were more kryptonian refugees than just Zod and Faora. But I feel pretty happy with those two on their own as well.

Remember, it's not always quantity that matters, it's quality.

The best fight scenes i've ever seen in my life haven't been the big scale 'epic' ones with loads of cgi. They've been the brutal, up close and personal ones.

I'm more hoping for that for a final showdown with Zod than some big scale invasion with Supes battling a dozen kryptonians.

[Rust]

Originally Posted by hopefulsuicide

The best fight scenes i've ever seen in my life haven't been the big scale 'epic' ones with loads of cgi. They've been the brutal, up close and personal ones.

That's why TDKR's Bat vs Bane will have a much bigger impact narratively and visually than for instance, Avengers, at least on me.
"Real people" or mortals squaring off against each other, heavily and brutally brawling like animals as if their lives (and ideals) depended on it. Which it might just. The Bat will break.

No amount of baddies and CGI can make up for that if the fight and the stakes arent really there.

[STARMAN]

I'm hoping for an epic showdown between Zod also.

But I wouldn't mind having Superman slug a few kryptonians before the main event.

[Marvin]

Originally Posted by Rust

That's why TDKR will have a much bigger impact narratively and visually than for instance, Avengers, at least on me.
"Real people" or mortals squaring off against each other, heavily and brutally brawling like animals as if their lives (and ideals) depended on it. Which it might just.

No amount of baddies and CGI can make up for that if the fight and the stakes arent really there.

Stakes are great, no denying.
However, speaking personally, I've yet to see one fight in The Nolan Batfilms that does anything for me in and of itself.

Batman vs JOker for instance...
Batman vs Ra's for instance, they're just way to clumsy. These films pretty much are nothing but stakes.

Cap vs Skull(one big fat meh), Thor vs anyone in his film(another meh)

Blade vs Nomak is a different story however, Spiderman vs Doc Ock...great stuff.

[STARMAN]

It's ironic to think that Superman and Zod only exhanged a handful of blows in Superman II.

[Rust]

"Stakes are great, no denying.
However, speaking personally, I've yet to see one fight in The Nolan Batfilms that does anything for me in and of itself.

Batman vs JOker for instance...
Batman vs Ra's for instance, they're just way to clumsy. These films pretty much are nothing but stakes.

Cap vs Skull(one big fat meh), Thor vs anyone in his film(another meh)

Blade vs Nomak is a different story however, Spiderman vs Doc Ock...great stuff."


You're right. Not many CBMs have actually have very good battle- or fight-sequences ironically enough. Not when speaking actual fighting and choreography. It usually looks either clumsy, fake or staged. X-men and partially Avengers stands out, I believe. And I for one liked Blake getting whooped in Watchmen. Really looked like he got a severe ass-kicking.

I can only hope that since Bane is such a brawler that we'll get something hard-hitting and believable this time.

[STARMAN]

I have a feeling the fight between Batman and Bane will be better than Batman and Ra's/Joker.

As for Superman, I'm wondering if he'll only appear in the third act of the film. That would be risky.

[Rust]

Originally Posted by STARMAN

I have a feeling the fight between Batman and Bane will be better than Batman and Ra's/Joker.

As for Superman, I'm wondering if he'll only appear in the third act of the film. That would be risky.

Bane is a fighter and they better show it. I wonder if the Bat will stop him though or Bane's own drug-abbuse will finish him off first. At one point I had the feeling that he would somehow grow in size and strength due to the poison he feeds on or whatever it is and that it would ultimately kill him.

About Superman, I think it's very possible that he wont put on the suit and become the MOS until the third act. I personally hope so, especially if there's so much focus on the origin, Then they shouldnt rush things.

[STARMAN]

If there are interesting and exciting things happening in the first two acts, then I can wait until the third act for Superman.

I just don't want him whining about his destiny for the first two acts.

[Rust]

He probably will in the first act though. Depending on whether or not we get a linear narrative.

[STARMAN]

Despite all the talk of this being a different approach to Superman than what's been done before, I have a feeling it may be more like ten years worth of the Smallville TV show crammed into two and half hours.

[Rust]

I think the origin will follow the same recipe as Batman Begins, more or less. We've seen kid-Clark, late teen-Clark and lumberjack/waiter-Clark who I can only assume is the present Clark roaming America (and possibly the world) to find himself. I imagine will learn more about his origin (in flashbacks) as he finds himself more and more, while also learning about Zod through the same flashbacks (via the ship while growing up). But that's just my theory anyways.

[hopefuldreamer]

Originally Posted by Rust

That's why TDKR's Bat vs Bane will have a much bigger impact narratively and visually than for instance, Avengers, at least on me.
"Real people" or mortals squaring off against each other, heavily and brutally brawling like animals as if their lives (and ideals) depended on it. Which it might just. The Bat will break.

No amount of baddies and CGI can make up for that if the fight and the stakes arent really there.

Completely agreed.

I mean, I loved Avengers fight scenes. They had me grinning and bouncing in my seat cause they were awesome fun.

But I hope Superman's fight scenes have a serious tone. I don't wanna be bouncing up and down in my seat, I wanna be glued to my seat, teatering on the edge, eyes fixed, breath held

I think one of the reasons Batman is such a popular hero is because his stakes are ALWAYS high.

Because there is a sense of danger every time he goes out, like in TDK, even when just fighting small time crooks, he gets bitten by a dog and has to sow himself back up.

And one of the common complaints that make Superman 'boring' is that he is invulnerable. So people assume there are no stakes, no danger. He's not really risking anything by going out there and being a hero.

Of course there are so many reasons why that's no true.

And I hope that with a villain like Zod, the stakes can be high, emotionally AND physically.

Originally Posted by Rust

I think the origin will follow the same recipe as Batman Begins, more or less. We've seen kid-Clark, late teen-Clark and lumberjack/waiter-Clark who I can only assume is the present Clark roaming America (and possibly the world) to find himself. I imagine will learn more about his origin (in flashbacks) as he finds himself more and more, while also learning about Zod through the same flashbacks (via the ship while growing up). But that's just my theory anyways.

Yeah i'm hoping for the same thing. Nothing wrong with doing the same sort of formula as BB. It worked, and it seems like it'd work even better here because it takes the character in a way the audience is really not expecting.

I mean, no one walks into a Superman movie and expects it to begin with him bumming around in Alaska

[Rust]

Exactly. Again, much like BB. It's the only way to do it. Non-linearly.

[Rowsdower!]

Originally Posted by hopefulsuicide

Completely agreed.

I mean, I loved Avengers fight scenes. They had me grinning and bouncing in my seat cause they were awesome fun.

But I hope Superman's fight scenes have a serious tone. I don't wanna be bouncing up and down in my seat, I wanna be glued to my seat, teatering on the edge, eyes fixed, breath held

I think one of the reasons Batman is such a popular hero is because his stakes are ALWAYS high.

Because there is a sense of danger every time he goes out, like in TDK, even when just fighting small time crooks, he gets bitten by a dog and has to sow himself back up.

And one of the common complaints that make Superman 'boring' is that he is invulnerable. So people assume there are no stakes, no danger. He's not really risking anything by going out there and being a hero.

Of course there are so many reasons why that's no true.

And I hope that with a villain like Zod, the stakes can be high, emotionally AND physically.



Yeah i'm hoping for the same thing. Nothing wrong with doing the same sort of formula as BB. It worked, and it seems like it'd work even better here because it takes the character in a way the audience is really not expecting.

I mean, no one walks into a Superman movie and expects it to begin with him bumming around in Alaska

Maybe Superman is in Alaska to spy on the Russians.

[nocomics]

I sure hope they don't dwell on his origin, I think 99% of the planet knows how Superman came about. Second, if they really wanted to get away from Donner's Superman they should of picked different baddies to fight.
I mean SR got criticized for it being like Superman I(basic story), and looks like MOS is the sequel with bringing in ZOD(aka Superman II). I think there is plenty of baddies in Supe's world to bring in than the same.
I hope there is plenty of action and I'm sure there will be, but I was hoping for a completely different take or direction from Donners versions.

[herolee10]

Originally Posted by nocomics

I sure hope they don't dwell on his origin, I think 99% of the planet knows how Superman came about. Second, if they really wanted to get away from Donner's Superman they should of picked different baddies to fight.
I mean SR got criticized for it being like Superman I(basic story), and looks like MOS is the sequel with bringing in ZOD(aka Superman II). I think there is plenty of baddies in Supe's world to bring in than the same.
I hope there is plenty of action and I'm sure there will be, but I was hoping for a completely different take or direction from Donners versions.

1. From what I saw, SR was panned because it followed Donner's formula almost entirely, there was nothing really original in the film, except for Superman's disappearance and the existence of a child between him and Lois that stood out from what Donner established with the characters provided.

Now, TDK had a usage of using some similar thematic elements that was present in Burton's first Batman Film: Harvey Dent and Joker inside of the film, Joker being responsible for murdering some close to Bruce, Joker's reign of Terror on Gotham's city, etc. Plus, both Joker and Two Face had been done as well, but the trick here was that Nolan presented a new side/layer to those characters and to the story itself. Singer did not do that.

2. Just because Snyder is using Zod and Faora, it doesn't mean that they'll be the same versions that we saw in SII; and while the essence of Superman's story is mostly known to a good amount of people, it's all about telling it in a way that hasn't been shown to the General Audience imho. Honestly, given that the Superman franchise desperately needs for the GA to show favor towards Superman for this film to be a success, it needs to reestablish as to why he's considered the great hero that he is; go back to the basics if you will..instead of just assuming that everyone knows the basic plot formula.

[Weadazoid]

has it ever been revealed who or what the guy with the CGI suit and the stick on his head is.....

you know the thick guy walking with Faora.


I hope even if it is just for a second or two they at least hint at Brainiack


I mean fans have been calling for him for ever .... with SNyder at the healm it seemed perfect


The idea of Superman going to war against an alien like that.... a creature with Telekentic powers.... kinda like the wosrt kind of Sith Lord going up against Supes is awsome

too bad they went this way.... I have high hopes for Shannons Zod, I hope the battle armor is off the hook.

[herolee10]

Sad thing about Superman is that when it comes to the Big Screen, he's never really faced an serious opponent that didn't have a humanoid-like appearance. The closest thing that Superman has ever encountered on the big screen as a antagonist that didn't look human was Webster's sister in SIII when she was being possessed by that super computer.

Given the usage of Motion Capture suits, my hope is that Superman will have something to face, whether it be Zod in armor or some other villainous minion that doesn't look entirely humanoid.

If anything, I've noticed on how a good amount of comic book films as of late have been featuring "war themes" to it and how the heroes presented have had to deal with evil forces from either starting a war or from continuing on with their war. Case in point:

1. X-Men First Class: Cuban Missile Crisis
2. Thor: War against Asgard and Frost Giants
3. Captain America: Hydra/Nazi's vs the World/US
4. The Avengers: The Heroes against Loki's Army
5. The Dark Knight Rises: Batman/Gotham against Bane's army of mercenaries

I wonder if that might be the same for MOS; it certainly wouldn't hurt to see Superman come across some serious big physical obstacles.

Just to make myself clear with some, I'm definitely all for personal and intense fighting sequences between just the hero and the main villain of the film, especially if I had to choose that over just a random barrage of mindless drones going up against the hero(es).

However, like some have said regarding the Hulk's presentation in TA, I think it wouldn't hurt to show on what Superman's capable of doing if he had a hoard of villains to go up against as well like how the Hulk was able to cut loose when the villains arrived.

Of course, I don't see Superman being as lethal if those soldiers were entirely sentient beings since he has that "no killing" policy against lifeforms; but given that Zod is a general, wouldn't it be natural to assume that he should be provided with some type of super powered army for Superman to encounter?

[ChickenScratch]

Wait? Your surprised superhero movies have war themes? But these guys are all about fighting. Do away with their reason for doing it or how virtuous they are and these superheros are warriors.

[HighFivingMF]

I was wondering, if they were to make a Superman/Batman movie would you want supporting heroes/sidekicks like Supergirl, Robin, Steel, or Catwoman included? If so, which one/ones?

[herolee10]

Originally Posted by ChickenScratch

Wait? Your surprised superhero movies have war themes? But these guys are all about fighting. Do away with their reason for doing it or how virtuous they are and these superheros are warriors.

Well I meant War in a sense where it's just no longer a hero versus a singular villain and their proverbial master evil plan; like Spiderman 1 and 2 for example.

[Rockstar]

Originally Posted by HighFivingMF

I was wondering, if they were to make a Superman/Batman movie would you want supporting heroes/sidekicks like Supergirl, Robin, Steel, or Catwoman included? If so, which one/ones?

Wouldn't want.


World's Finest is a two-man operation. It's all about the duality of Batman and Superman.

[DIRECTOR]

if they can't make Justice League movie anytime soon, than they should concentrate on a World's Finest movie

[HighFivingMF]

Originally Posted by Rockstar

It's all about the duality of Batman and Superman.

And their supporting casts can help that purpose.