X-men First Class Sequels?

[OsGom]

I'm thinking Black King as a mutual Prof/Mags antagonist. BK vs. Prof on the astral plane.

[Majik1387]

I think you mean Shadow King.

He's a meh character to me, but if they can make him work then fine.

[def28]

Originally Posted by psylockolussus

I actually expected better from the posters of The Avengers.

The first few posters really disappointed me especially the ones that had a black background. The main poster only looks good now because I'm already used to it but they could have done better in my opinion.

Yeah I was disappointed in them, as well as the first teaser. Hated the use of the NIN song. They did excellent job in all other areas though and the flick kicked enough ass for me not too care. Definitely would have liked to have better posters for both FC and Avengers.

[OsGom]

Originally Posted by Majik1387

I think you mean Shadow King.

He's a meh character to me, but if they can make him work then fine.

You're right, Shadow King! Color me surprised that you don't approve.

[Majik1387]

I just mean compared to other villains, he's pretty meh to me.

[Blitzkrieg Bop]

Magneto and Beast have to fight in the sequel.

[merbass]

I'm looking forward to Beast fighting with Mystique, which totally ended their love for one another. May be Mystique ended up killing Banshee as well !

[Majik1387]

I don't see the need to kill Banshee. Especially so soon.

[X-Maniac]

A THOUGHT...that led to a QUESTION...

Which family connections do we want to see, and which characters could be introduced without the family link?

1) Baby Nightcrawler - the child of Mystique and Azazel. Needn't be a rape story, this is the swinging 60s after all...

2) Juggernaut - stepbrother to Xavier

3) Polaris/Scarlet Witch/Quicksilver - children of Magneto

4) Cyclops - brother of Havok

5) Black Tom - cousin of Banshee

[Majik1387]

Originally Posted by X-Maniac

A THOUGHT...that led to a QUESTION...

Which family connections do we want to see, and which characters could be introduced without the family link?

1) Baby Nightcrawler - the child of Mystique and Azazel. Needn't be a rape story, this is the swinging 60s after all...

2) Juggernaut - stepbrother to Xavier

3) Polaris/Scarlet Witch/Quicksilver - children of Magneto

4) Cyclops - brother of Havok

5) Black Tom - cousin of Banshee

I'd want to see 1 addressed, but not with Mystique giving birth at the end of the movie or anything.
I would like to see 2 addressed as well, but don't want to see Juggernaut in the Brotherhood; maybe by the end of the movie as he can replace any members that either deserted or died.
I've already said I've wanted to see Polaris, I'd keep out Quicksilver and Scarlet Witch simply because I still don't understand their copyright issues between Fox and Marvel Studios.
I think the next movie would be a good time to introduce Cyclops, not necessary though.
I'd be interested to see Black Tom, but I think we'd need more Banshee development before bringing in the relationship aspect between the two.

[Angamb]

Polaris all the way!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

oh, and a subplot with Mystique and Azazel, and leaving the birth of Kurt like a mistery somehow.

Im not sure Fox will go full force with that plot, but an smart and interesting way to tell this subplot by Vaughn would be amazing.

[henzINNIT]

I think Juggernaught could be awesome if done right.

F--k The Last Stand

[blueserenity]

Originally Posted by X-Maniac

A THOUGHT...that led to a QUESTION...

Which family connections do we want to see, and which characters could be introduced without the family link?

1) Baby Nightcrawler - the child of Mystique and Azazel. Needn't be a rape story, this is the swinging 60s after all...

2) Juggernaut - stepbrother to Xavier

3) Polaris/Scarlet Witch/Quicksilver - children of Magneto

4) Cyclops - brother of Havok

5) Black Tom - cousin of Banshee

None of the above. With exception to Black Tom (who TBH I have never heard of) all of them require the sequel to take place much later than it should. In regards to Xavier and Magneto's family ties, I'm pretty sure they don't exist. Introducing the stepbrother or the "forgotten children" would seem like retconning or last-minute-plotting.

[merbass]

Originally Posted by Majik1387

I don't see the need to kill Banshee. Especially so soon.

I feel it would have the same impact as killing of Jean in X2. He is much loved by fans and those who watched him in XFC. And it's also a transition to a really bad Mystique !

[X-Maniac]

Originally Posted by merbass

I feel it would have the same impact as killing of Jean in X2. He is much loved by fans and those who watched him in XFC. And it's also a transition to a really bad Mystique !

We've only just met Banshee, for crying out loud! It's a ridiculous idea to want him dead already.

Deaths never go down well in this franchise. Whether it's The Last Stand or Darwin in First Class, people just don't like characters being killed off.

[Majik1387]

I'm fine with characters being killed off, it's when they're killed off by bad writing that I dislike them. Jean's, Stryker's, and Deathstrike's deaths were fine to me as they weren't written badly.
Darwin, and the deaths in X3 were all lame which is why they get distaste from fans.

[psylockolussus]

Originally Posted by X-Maniac

Which family connections do we want to see, and which characters could be introduced without the family link?

1) Baby Nightcrawler - the child of Mystique and Azazel. Needn't be a rape story, this is the swinging 60s after all...
2) Juggernaut - stepbrother to Xavier
3) Polaris/Scarlet Witch/Quicksilver - children of Magneto
4) Cyclops - brother of Havok
5) Black Tom - cousin of Banshee

For me, I would prefer if those things don't happen in the future films because it will just make the continuity more confusing. But 4 and 5 wouldn't be bad.

Originally Posted by merbass

I'm looking forward to Beast fighting with Mystique, which totally ended their love for one another. May be Mystique ended up killing Banshee as well !

Since Banshee didn't appear in the original trilogy, I'm okay if they killed him at some point but I want it to happen in the third movie. I want to know more of him first.

[X-Maniac]

Originally Posted by psylockolussus

For me, I would prefer if those things don't happen in the future films because it will just make the continuity more confusing. But 4 and 5 wouldn't be bad.

Yes, that sounds logical. We don't want the continuity to be any worse than it is!

Originally Posted by psylockolussus

Since Banshee didn't appear in the original trilogy, I'm okay if they killed him at some point but I want it to happen in the third movie. I want to know more of him first.

I don't want him dead. I wouldn't mind if he lost his sonic powers while pushing them to the extreme - which happened in the comics when he stopped Moses Magnum's earthquake machine.

Then he could leave and join Interpol (which was where he originated in the comics).

[X-Maniac]

Originally Posted by blueserenity

None of the above. With exception to Black Tom (who TBH I have never heard of) all of them require the sequel to take place much later than it should. In regards to Xavier and Magneto's family ties, I'm pretty sure they don't exist. Introducing the stepbrother or the "forgotten children" would seem like retconning or last-minute-plotting.

Good points. Long-lost relatives always has a soap opera element.

If Polaris appears, she could - as in her first comics appearance - believe herself to be Magneto's daughter and then rebel when she finds it isn't true. In the film, she could simply feel she has found a 'family' at last (of similar people where she feels at home), rather than an actual father or blood relative.

Cyclops is a definite for a later film, and a Juggernaut with no family link could easily arise in the Vietnam war (1955-1975).

[X-Maniac]

Originally Posted by Majik1387

I'm fine with characters being killed off, it's when they're killed off by bad writing that I dislike them. Jean's, Stryker's, and Deathstrike's deaths were fine to me as they weren't written badly.
Darwin, and the deaths in X3 were all lame which is why they get distaste from fans.

I think people would have been upset no matter how Cyclops' death was written.

Jean's death is part of her arc, Stryker is a villain and not a regular comic character, Deathstrike's demise caused a bit of upset but there was no other way out of that fight scenario.

Darwin's death was a bit iffy because it was yet another cliche of the black man dies first, and because we hadn't got to know him very well. But, considering he isn't a major X-Men character, it sort of worked.

A lot of the upset over deaths is due to attachment to regular characters. It has nothing to do with the writing, it's to do with fans not wanting to see deaths of their favourites.

[Majik1387]

Originally Posted by X-Maniac

I think people would have been upset no matter how Cyclops' death was written.

I do agree storywise he shouldn't have died unless it was at the end with Jean, but it's the way he was written off that made it so bad. If his death was written with respect, I would have been sad but it wouldn't have bothered me.
[quote]Jean's death is part of her arc, Stryker is a villain and not a regular comic character, Deathstrike's demise caused a bit of upset but there was no other way out of that fight scenario.[quote]
Again, I said those deaths were written and performed just fine.

Darwin's death was a bit iffy because it was yet another cliche of the black man dies first,

This is a non-existent cliche

and because we hadn't got to know him very well. But, considering he isn't a major X-Men character, it sort of worked.

Nah, it was the one point in the movie that felt lazy.

A lot of the upset over deaths is due to attachment to regular characters. It has nothing to do with the writing, it's to do with fans not wanting to see deaths of their favourites.

I don't think you're giving the fans and audience enough credit, and that you're making an insulting generalization.

[blueserenity]

Originally Posted by X-Maniac

Good points. Long-lost relatives always has a soap opera element.

If Polaris appears, she could - as in her first comics appearance - believe herself to be Magneto's daughter and then rebel when she finds it isn't true. In the film, she could simply feel she has found a 'family' at last (of similar people where she feels at home), rather than an actual father or blood relative.

Cyclops is a definite for a later film, and a Juggernaut with no family link could easily arise in the Vietnam war (1955-1975).

Exactly! 4 movies with these characters without so much as a mention or hint of the family ties and I think it's too late to add them in.

I still think Polaris would be too early for the sequel. Let's say Erik was 30-32 in XMFC, to have a daughter old enough for a rebellious age (say, 16-18), he would have had to have had her as a young teen... which is when he was still in the camps and immediately after. I don't think his focus at that time was getting laid. Actually to me the Erik we see in XMFC is largely asexual; too focused on his Nazi hunting to deal with sex. Thus, childless.

And TBH I do find the whole "You're my father/you're NOT my father" thing to still be a bit too soap opera for this series. We've already got Raven's daddy issues to deal with (Erik and Charles basically treat her like a daughter in their own ways).

[X-Maniac]

Originally Posted by Majik1387

I do agree storywise he shouldn't have died unless it was at the end with Jean, but it's the way he was written off that made it so bad. If his death was written with respect, I would have been sad but it wouldn't have bothered me.

I think however it was written, it would have caused upset.

Originally Posted by Majik1387

Again, I said those deaths were written and performed just fine.

I think fans were fine with Jean's death in X2. It was more the mainstream viewers who were asking why she had to step outside the jet. But it fitted with fans' knowledge of the mythos, and they were okay with it.

As for Stryker and Deathstryke (and also Jason), they are villains and therefore deaths are more acceptable as a satisfying end to the story.

Joker died in Batman 89, Penguin dies in Batman Returns, Green Goblin died in Spider-Man and Doctor Octopus died in Spider-Man 2, and no one kicked up much of a fuss.

Originally Posted by Majik1387

This is a non-existent cliche

I've heard people remark upon it. Someone said it to me about Darwin's death in particular. Whether it's accurate every time is another matter.

Originally Posted by Majik1387

Nah, it was the one point in the movie that felt lazy.

How so?

Originally Posted by Majik1387

I don't think you're giving the fans and audience enough credit, and that you're making an insulting generalization.

I believe what I say to be true. The general audience - those with no real investment in these films or in the comics - didn't freak out over Cyclops' death or any other deaths or curings in X3. That's backed up by the fact that those people I have chatted to (people at work or in social circles who don't in any way analyse or obsess over these films) were not fazed by Cyclops dying or Rogue taking the cure. To them, it was logical within the story - especially because Cyclops was not centre stage in the preceding films and, in the real world, any teenage girl with Rogue's mutation would opt for the cure. Heck, teenage girls are opting for cosmetic surgery even without having a mutation that means they can't be touched.

It's the fans - either fans of the film series (particularly fans of Singer's adaptations) or fans of the comics - who were most upset. If it's insulting, that's because the truth hurts.

You have to step out of the geek bubble to see things in perspective.

If I focus only on being a fan for a moment and discard objectivity, what they did to Cyclops and Rogue was dreadful. It was disrespectful to the source material. But seen without those geek goggles on, those events work within the film.

This is why having a healthy respect for the source material is needed. The general audience weren't melting down over Barakapool or Cyclops' evaporating, or over the character line-up in First Class, it was the fans.

[X-Maniac]

Originally Posted by blueserenity

Exactly! 4 movies with these characters without so much as a mention or hint of the family ties and I think it's too late to add them in.

I still think Polaris would be too early for the sequel. Let's say Erik was 30-32 in XMFC, to have a daughter old enough for a rebellious age (say, 16-18), he would have had to have had her as a young teen... which is when he was still in the camps and immediately after. I don't think his focus at that time was getting laid. Actually to me the Erik we see in XMFC is largely asexual; too focused on his Nazi hunting to deal with sex. Thus, childless.

And TBH I do find the whole "You're my father/you're NOT my father" thing to still be a bit too soap opera for this series. We've already got Raven's daddy issues to deal with (Erik and Charles basically treat her like a daughter in their own ways).

I see your point. I think if they introduced Polaris, it would have to be portrayed as not being his daughter. Emma might manipulate Polaris to think she may be related to Erik, or perhaps Polaris is just happy to be among a 'family' of fellow mutants and not literally related to Erik.

I'm curious as to which characters they will pick if they are to avoid these relatives.

And also curious whether we'll ever see Magneto father any children in this series.

[Majik1387]

Originally Posted by X-Maniac

I think however it was written, it would have caused upset.

Of course it would have, but it was the lack of respect that made people majorly upset.

I think fans were fine with Jean's death in X2. It was more the mainstream viewers who were asking why she had to step outside the jet. But it fitted with fans' knowledge of the mythos, and they were okay with it.
As for Stryker and Deathstryke (and also Jason), they are villains and therefore deaths are more acceptable as a satisfying end to the story.

Again, you're generalizing. It's not a matter of a good guy or a bad guy dying, it's a matter of how their deaths were presented; for the 3 above they were presented with dignity, not shock value.

Joker died in Batman 89, Penguin dies in Batman Returns, Green Goblin died in Spider-Man and Doctor Octopus died in Spider-Man 2, and no one kicked up much of a fuss.

Actually, those villain deaths did kick up a lot of fuss.

I've heard people remark upon it. Someone said it to me about Darwin's death in particular. Whether it's accurate every time is another matter.

It's not a matter of accurate every time, it's a matter that there's nothing signifying the black man dying first being a cliche.

How so?

Because there was no connection/not a strong connection to the character for his death to matter.

I believe what I say to be true. *insert "people I've talked to outside of forum" here*

And I can tell you the people I've talked to outside of forum say different. Not to say that you don't have people saying that to you, but to generalize it like you say here:

It's the fans - either fans of the film series (particularly fans of Singer's adaptations) or fans of the comics - who were most upset.

It is insulting.

You have to step out of the geek bubble to see things in perspective.

Hey look, another insult; thinking that I have clouded vision in a geek bubble, that I can't possibly see it another way, that the general audience didn't care, etc. It's bull.
I'm not saying the general audience expect the movies to be entirely faithful to the source material, but they expect a good movie, and they voiced their opinions clearly otherwise we wouldn't be getting reboots/sequels. And Avengers indicates that keeping true to the comic can provide the blockbuster all studios want. So no, spare telling me or anyone else that the fans are the only ones who were upset with the movies.

And quit generalizing, it only makes you look bad.