Webbing formula

[AmazinSpiderboy]

I have an idea about the glue what if we used the glue from the prosthetic makeup ( like the press for the movies) it drys pretty quick

[symbioteshost]

Originally Posted by White_widow

hey guys.., I just had an idea. We're all using CO2 as the propellant right?

(I mean it's easy to access, cheap, and almost all pressure equipment is made for it; so I expect the answer is yes.)

Why don't we find a strong adhesive that cures when, and only when it's cold? For my shooter, I can kind of use any adhesive because there are tons of adhesives that crosslink and crystallize in heat.

The reason. Let's assume that you want to use your web line as a more safety thing. You fire it with CO2 or another gas that gets REALLY cold. The adhesive sticks, and when it warms up, it becomes a liquid. Assuming that we use an organic strong polymer or a gel, the cold would harden the gel, making it fast hardening. Then, so long as it's non-toxic it doesn't hurt the environment.

If we were to do that, we could by-pass shear thinning and just make a very strong gel. Gels tend to be elastomeric anyway, have moderate viscosity rates, and easily expandable.

Final thought, the only problem with a formula like that would be that the inside of the shooter had to be warmed so that it only congeals when cold.

This reminds me of the chocolate shell syrup. Its a liquid at room temperature, but when added to something cold (like ice cream) it hardens fairly quick. Maybe there is some way to tweak it in order to increase strength?

[White_widow]

To amazing spiderboy: I believe you are referring to spirit Gum. I know that Wadaltmon is working on that. Personally, I don't have much faith in it, because it's adhesion isn't strong enough. However, I bet you could ask wadaltmon about it. He's done experiments with it and determined that water is it's solvent.

To symbioteshost: Oh yeah! I loved that stuff as a kid. I believe it works like that because it has water in it. I could be wrong though. It's an interesting idea.

[Iron_spider]

What about polythene (polyethylene) for the plastic? Just read an article that says scientists are making polythene armor 40% stronger than Kevlar. Here's the link: http://www.newscientist.com/article/...an-kevlar.html

[White_widow]

Back when we first started, we had considered using polyethylene. It was around the time I had started experimenting with polystyrene. The only problem I have with it is that it has no solvent. If we could find a solvent for it, it would be near perfect.

[spidey44]

The chocolate does that because of coconut oil.

[Iron_spider]

Yes, polyethylene is insoluble at room temperature. However, it can be dissolved if one were to elevate the temperature.

[White_widow]

Ahhh, coconut oil. I'll have to look into that. Thanks. ^^

To iron spider: True, but assuming the shooter could produce the heat, the solvents are all dangerous.

[TheWeb]

I feel like this would be a good place to send a good message.
Not only am i helping with the technical aspect of the shooters i am also my own appointed test dummy to see how strong the formula is when it is done and what it's limits are.
I do parkour some i'm quite familiar with the physics of my body and know the safety precautions to take when i'm in a dangerous situation and how to transfer energy properly.

Jumping rooftop to rooftop is common for substreet.

This is a video of a couple members of the team i run with in SC. I'm not in the video, but i would just like to remind people how far the body will go with a little discipline and training, and that it can go way farther than what is in this video. Parkour is not an extreme sport because the people who do it spends months-years training and know exactly what they're doing, so don't forget that.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GVcxm...feature=relmfu

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z6kbc7riYXw

[White_widow]

I don't know. Substreet if I remember correctly, is rooftops at about 1 or 2 stories. Webbing, forgetting about curing rates, will still take time to fire and grab. The only way to make webbing part of your parkouring is to use it above three stories, or to use it to increase wall runs.

[TheWeb]

we have high buildings. Multiple uses besides swinging.

[AmazinSpiderboy]

Object throwing

[White_widow]

Ok, so what do you guys think about this:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reverse_osmosis

We can modify one of these systems so that the water is removed from a aqueous solution containing a type of water soluble contact cement /epoxy and our strengthening polymer. That way the water is the solvent and we don't have to worry about clogging in the shooter due to a chemical reaction.

edit: and that way, we can dissolve the webs within a time frame. Water will cause them to dissolve. Rain will do it. With cyanoacrylate, I can't think of a way not to damage something. (for example that kid in the trailer would have received a 2nd degree chemical burn.

[spidey44]

I've been thinking about that, but I didn't know what it was called. Cool, but wouldn't this make the web shoot slower and not as far, where are we going to put this.

[White_widow]

I can't say I'm too sure. Most of this section is spit-balling, because I am deviating from a two part system. I'm trying to find a way to remove cyanoacrylate from the equation. It may be the strongest glue, but it is brittle, it doesn't degrade, and it will cause burn injuries, even with the CO2 freezing properties.

As for making it slower, I don't think so as long as we line the walls of the solute compound with Teflon or another anti-frictional material. The diagram stated that the solute (webbing) would be removed via pressure. It would have to be well designed though. This is going beyond potato cannon mechanics here.



Let me open this up. Does anyone have any ideas on how to remove cyanoacrylate from the formula without sacrificing adhesion?


edit: this looks hard, but it's really rather easy. There are only three options.

1.) get a solvent to evaporate quickly in both the glue and plastic.
2.) separate and create a cross-link at the last second without causing a burn.
3.)have a shear thinning material that contains no hydroxide or water.

out of all of them 1 and 3 have the advantage with 1 leading. Chemical reactions create heat, but super-critical CO2 breaks easy to form bonds, and creates foams.

[Iron_spider]

What if we used a mixture of polymers? We could try and combine the different properties.

[White_widow]

I like that idea, but it would imply that they have differing viscosity rates. Also, there has to be a cross-linking sometime or else it wouldn't be uniform. any polymer has to be uniform to have a predictable tensile strength. What if you add too much of one polymer responsible for elasticity, and not enough of the strengthening polymer?

[White_widow]

So I have a pretty simplistic solution for the fire department webbing, or rather how to make that work. I add an elastomeric compound (PValcohol) to a heat cross-linked based epoxy (that answered my questions).

So that being done, I will try to focus on this parkour webbing gel.

So parkour people, I have a question. What will you fire this webbing at? I mean, certainly not glass. It wouldn't hold your weight. What about vinyl siding? Nope. Metal? You could, but most buildings aren't made of that. Skin? Heck no. So what does that leave?

Are Concrete and brick the only things you could realistically see yourself latching onto? I mean rails are there, but would you bond to those? They would require pin-point accuracy?

I need comments for this one. To build a parkour based webbing solution, we need to build the gel/foam based on parkour principles.




Edit: I have an idea on how to make a 1-component polymer gel that works like webbing, but for it to work, I need to know the composition of what you are going to latch onto. If it's wood, cement, silicates, or asphault, that's fine, but I need to know of all of the surfaces that you would attach it to.

[Iron_spider]

Ok, I just came across something and got really excited. I really hope this could work.

Would it be possible for us to add a UV laser component to the shooter? Because if we could...

Check this out: http://www.epoxies.com/tech/60-7156R.pdf

We could make the shooter so that the web passes through a sort of UV light "screen" before it leaves the shooter. The amazing thing about this stuff is that it will continue to cure once it's already been exposed to the UV light.

And might I say the tensile strength is quite a bit above 3000 psi. 6,200 psi, to be exact. Excited yet?

And to top it off, the curing rate can be increased if we had a warming component in the shooter. The curing rate with just the UV light is 2-5 seconds. Add the heating component, and possibly, the process could go very fast.

So, how about it? Would this work?

[Iron_spider]

Just thought of something else. You know that flash we see in the trailer when he shoots the webs? What if that were some kind of light curing mechanism? And maybe it's a red flash just because the faceplate is red?

[Wadaltmon]

One thing I have thought of is using the epoxy (of the color black) that professional computer and consumer electronics companies use (TheWeb, you may know what I am talking about) to attach their ICs to the Printed Circuit Board. This epoxy prevents people from taking out the IC and taking the programming on there; kind of like an old-school encryption.
This epoxy is incredibly strong, and I think it would be useful in our formula.

Iron_spider: I never thought of that light-curing thing. That sounds pretty interesting. In fact, that sounds like a great idea; although I have no idea how we would get that UV thing in there without shining in someone else's eyes or burning ourselves.

[Iron_spider]

Thanks, Wadaltmon! I think we'd just have to be extremely careful in planning the construction, make sure we think of every possible thing that could go wrong, and then do our best to prevent it. You brought up a good point. I'll start thinking about how we can avoid those problems...

[Wadaltmon]

My guess is we would have to find some kind of colored screen that would counteract the rays. Something with either a really low or really high energy color.

[Iron_spider]

Wouldn't that obstruct the path of the web?

[AmazinSpiderboy]

Where do we buy one of these uv lasers?