The Official 'Hulk in Avengers' thread. - Part 9

[Dark Raven]

Hulk should've stood on the very top of the Stark Tower and beat his chest with the Chitauri ships whizzing past him.

[MarvelKnight]

Well, I know from a few interviews they said they studied the movement of Gorillas for some of hulk's base movements. But I never thought it hurt the portrayal in any way.

Considering the Hulk is a primal force of nature, I don't find it too far fetched to make his movements a bit more animalistic.

I know what you mean when he says "stop" though, he was like shocked/dumbfounded in that hulk sort of way, lol

[Gamma Ra]

Originally Posted by MarvelKnight

Well, I know from a few interviews they said they studied the movement of Gorillas for some of hulk's base movements. But I never thought it hurt the portrayal in any way.

Considering the Hulk is a primal force of nature, I don't find it too far fetched to make his movements a bit more animalistic.

I know what you mean when he says "stop" though, he was like shocked/dumbfounded in that hulk sort of way, lol

It bothered me a great deal when they first announced that Ruffalo was going to study the movements of gorillas for his Hulk role.

The problem I have with the labeling Hulk a creature purely "primal rage" or "primal force" is that it completely limits what the Hulk characteristically should be. It worked for the old 70's television show, but should have stayed there. Hulk has both primal rage and is a primal force and has been described in comics more completely as a "Force of Nature." Not all gamma creatures are angry monstrous beings. The gamma energy brings out whats deep within a persons subconscious. Banner is a scientist with his own unique past personal issues, thus his manifestation into the Hulking creature that we know is due to his own inner demons and deeper seated thoughts; and not because he has regressed in nature...atomic age Darwinian style.

Hulk is Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde, meets Frankestein, meets Dracula (he absorbs gamma radiation to empower and rejuvenate himself indefinitely), meets Reanimator, meets Godzilla and a whole host of other monsters.

In other words...he should be...unique!!!

[calibud]

Wondering if anyone can help me reconcile what exactly Banner's experiments were in TIH vs TA. I just rewatched TIH.

Please correct me if I'm wrong here...

In TA, Coulson tells Cap that Banner "believed that gamma radiation held the key to unlocking Erskine's formula." That leads me to believe that Banner knew that he was working to replicate the Super Soldier serum. In other words, they were reverse engineering the SS serum and Banner's gamma radiation theory backfired.

In TIH, Ross tells Blonsky that Banner "believed he was working on radiation immunity", but that he didn't dare tell him what he was actually working on, which was the SS serum. Which implies that Bruce was kept in the dark as to the true intentions of his experiments with gamma radiation. Bruce was unaware of Ross' intended application of his research.

(Possibly irrelevant: Most of the movie, Bruce is saying that Ross wants the Hulk, to dissect it and replicate it. Yet...doesn't Ross inject Blonsky with the last vial of serum? So, there was actually some left? I assume Ross was aiming to make MORE of it, but he uses the last of it so that they can subdue Banner?)

So...is that an inconsistency? Or can someone help straighten that out without filling in the gaps with information that wasn't presented in the movies?

[jaqua99]

Im watching it on putlocker, and Hulk definitaly doesn't say stop. I must have watched this scene 15 times in a row, I hear a grunt, then an angry yell. Its an angry yell, that at the end of it, his mouth happens to form a P. Thats it, thats all I see, or hear. I dont even see the word form in his mouth. I think it was jsut a coincidence. Ill go check out the smash part. but I think its everyone just wishful thinking. As far as I am concerned, his only line is Puny God

[marcvader]

What about the reflection thing?

[wobbly]

Originally Posted by calibud

Wondering if anyone can help me reconcile what exactly Banner's experiments were in TIH vs TA. I just rewatched TIH.

Please correct me if I'm wrong here...

In TA, Coulson tells Cap that Banner "believed that gamma radiation held the key to unlocking Erskine's formula." That leads me to believe that Banner knew that he was working to replicate the Super Soldier serum. In other words, they were reverse engineering the SS serum and Banner's gamma radiation theory backfired.

In TIH, Ross tells Blonsky that Banner "believed he was working on radiation immunity", but that he didn't dare tell him what he was actually working on, which was the SS serum. Which implies that Bruce was kept in the dark as to the true intentions of his experiments with gamma radiation. Bruce was unaware of Ross' intended application of his research.

(Possibly irrelevant: Most of the movie, Bruce is saying that Ross wants the Hulk, to dissect it and replicate it. Yet...doesn't Ross inject Blonsky with the last vial of serum? So, there was actually some left? I assume Ross was aiming to make MORE of it, but he uses the last of it so that they can subdue Banner?)

So...is that an inconsistency? Or can someone help straighten that out without filling in the gaps with information that wasn't presented in the movies?

1) Coulson's comments on Banner can be explained away as him simply not knowing Ross had kept Bruce in the dark over the ultimate goal for his work. It is apparent that Ross & Shield do not get along (Widow telling Bruce they'd kept 'interested' parties off his tail while always knowing where he was). With that in mind Coulson simply getting that fact wrong about Banner can make sense.

As does the writers simply changing their minds about the issue...

2) The serum Ross pulled out from the cryo-tube for Blonksy was not the same as that which empowered Cap. It was an unstable version, presumably an earlier attempt to recreate Erskine's serum given the use of a different name and batch number (Reinstein) and that it had already been exposed to Vita rays (negating the need for that part of the process for Blonsky). At it's best, it would only recreate another Cap (which it did to a degree, though it left Blonksy obviously deranged). What Ross saw in the Hulk was another level of power altogether.

So....Ross wanted Banner for dissection as he was a living example of the vast power that could be achieved from Banner's process, with the subject still surviving it. If Ross's scientists could figure out how to make Banner's transformation stable and replicable, then an army of controllable Hulks would beat the living crap out of an army of Cap's.

[jonnywhc]

Originally Posted by marcvader

What about the reflection thing?

What about it?

[metaphysician]

I think they are subtly moving the Hulk origin back to being gamma-focused. So, yes, the experiment that created the Hulk was a biological experiment on increasing radiation resistance. . . but Banner was, first and foremost, an expert on *radiation*, not genetic engineering. He's still a genius polymath, and still did everything you saw him doing in TIH, its just only one part of his expertise rather than the majority.

[Chris B]

I was really impressed with how seamlessly Ruffalo stepped into the role. Especially as someone who liked Norton's performance in TIH and was disappointed that he wasn't brought back.

[Golgo-13]

I just watched the TIH, and noticed a subtle little expression at the end.

When Betty stops Hulk killing Abom, Hulk kicks Abom over towards Ross, and they give each other a look as if Hulk is saying to Ross "Here, you've got something to dissect now..you can stop chasing me". Did anyone else get that?

Also, does Ross have Abomination, or does SHIELD have him?

[AndrewGilkison]

SHIELD probably has Abomination. I doubt Ross has much clout with the Powers That Be left after the way the events in Harlem, New York unfolded. If he even still has his job as General, he's probably on a pretty short leash and doesn't have much access to that kind of stuff anymore.

[Smashlilman]

I can't stop laughing at this.

HULK SMASHES A LOKI

VIDEO-CLick to Watch!:

[Oberon sexton]

Originally Posted by Gamma Ra

It bothered me a great deal when they first announced that Ruffalo was going to study the movements of gorillas for his Hulk role.

The problem I have with the labeling Hulk a creature purely "primal rage" or "primal force" is that it completely limits what the Hulk characteristically should be. It worked for the old 70's television show, but should have stayed there. Hulk has both primal rage and is a primal force and has been described in comics more completely as a "Force of Nature." Not all gamma creatures are angry monstrous beings. The gamma energy brings out whats deep within a persons subconscious. Banner is a scientist with his own unique past personal issues, thus his manifestation into the Hulking creature that we know is due to his own inner demons and deeper seated thoughts; and not because he has regressed in nature...atomic age Darwinian style.

Hulk is Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde, meets Frankestein, meets Dracula (he absorbs gamma radiation to empower and rejuvenate himself indefinitely), meets Reanimator, meets Godzilla and a whole host of other monsters.

In other words...he should be...unique!!!

If you look back at some of the older comics, mainly those drawn by Sal Buscema, Hulk looks very ape-like in posture, the way he moves his arms and even his facial features, so I don't see Ruffalo using Gorrila like movements out of character at all.

[MarvelKnight]

Originally Posted by Gamma Ra

It bothered me a great deal when they first announced that Ruffalo was going to study the movements of gorillas for his Hulk role.

The problem I have with the labeling Hulk a creature purely "primal rage" or "primal force" is that it completely limits what the Hulk characteristically should be. It worked for the old 70's television show, but should have stayed there. Hulk has both primal rage and is a primal force and has been described in comics more completely as a "Force of Nature." Not all gamma creatures are angry monstrous beings. The gamma energy brings out whats deep within a persons subconscious. Banner is a scientist with his own unique past personal issues, thus his manifestation into the Hulking creature that we know is due to his own inner demons and deeper seated thoughts; and not because he has regressed in nature...atomic age Darwinian style.

Hulk is Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde, meets Frankestein, meets Dracula (he absorbs gamma radiation to empower and rejuvenate himself indefinitely), meets Reanimator, meets Godzilla and a whole host of other monsters.

In other words...he should be...unique!!!

Alrighty then.

[terry78]

Originally Posted by Golgo-13

I just watched the TIH, and noticed a subtle little expression at the end.

When Betty stops Hulk killing Abom, Hulk kicks Abom over towards Ross, and they give each other a look as if Hulk is saying to Ross "Here, you've got something to dissect now..you can stop chasing me". Did anyone else get that?

Also, does Ross have Abomination, or does SHIELD have him?

Hulk basically silently chastises Ross twice in the flick, the one you mentioned, which I thought was more of a "look at what you did" thing and the first one when he has to save Betty from the wreckage, with the "see what all your issues with me just did?"

[Rock Sexton]

Originally Posted by jonnywhc

Someone seems abit touche they didn't notice it? Go back and have a look..I didn't see it til yesterday.

I didn't go in wanting to see it, I noticed it..and like I said before its SO subtle. The faces are similar but Hulks is far more prehistoric looking, and green, so its true.

Oh ya, I'm soooo jealous. Nerd much?

You're seeing what you want to see.

[metaphysician]

Originally Posted by terry78

Hulk basically silently chastises Ross twice in the flick, the one you mentioned, which I thought was more of a "look at what you did" thing and the first one when he has to save Betty from the wreckage, with the "see what all your issues with me just did?"

This is part of why I hope Ross *doesn't* get used as an antagonist again. The "stinger" scene further emphasized it: the events of TIH kind of broke Ross down. He lost, he *deserved to lose*, and he knew it.

[Gianakin_]

Originally Posted by Gamma Ra

The problem I have with the labeling Hulk a creature purely "primal rage" or "primal force" is that it completely limits what the Hulk characteristically should be. It worked for the old 70's television show, but should have stayed there.

I've only started watching the show, but in no way is Hulk portrayed there as a creature of primal force so far. I'm 6 episodes in and he's already been shown to have a range of emotions and character traits that are not primal.

Love the show, btw. Bixby's leaps and bounds the best Banner and I'm glad Mark is following his approach, something Norton promised he'd do, but, imo, never did (or they cut the scenes where he did). The Avengers and the show have showed me that Banner/Hulk are characters with so much potential, that I want to see more and more of them. I think TV is a good idea, better than cinema, even with obviously risking recasting Banner yet again.

Hm, I think I'm ready to start reading some Hulk stuff from the comics. Wow.

[Gamma Ra]

Originally Posted by Oberon sexton

If you look back at some of the older comics, mainly those drawn by Sal Buscema, Hulk looks very ape-like in posture, the way he moves his arms and even his facial features, so I don't see Ruffalo using Gorrila like movements out of character at all.

In those stories, the Hulk was bereft of Banner, who allowed himself to die in Hulk's mind. Hulk had no humanity in him. I agree that Hulk normally does and is supposed to appear neanderthal-ish or apeman-like, but his acting king kongish pounding on his chest bothered me.

Originally Posted by MarvelKnight

Alrighty then.

Thanks for your critical feedback.

Originally Posted by Gianakin_

I've only started watching the show, but in no way is Hulk portrayed there as a creature of primal force so far. I'm 6 episodes in and he's already been shown to have a range of emotions and character traits that are not primal.

Love the show, btw. Bixby's leaps and bounds the best Banner and I'm glad Mark is following his approach, something Norton promised he'd do, but, imo, never did (or they cut the scenes where he did). The Avengers and the show have showed me that Banner/Hulk are characters with so much potential, that I want to see more and more of them. I think TV is a good idea, better than cinema, even with obviously risking recasting Banner yet again.

Hm, I think I'm ready to start reading some Hulk stuff from the comics. Wow.

By primal force I'm taking it to mean the gamma power that charges him as that energy is a primal force in the universe.

I still hold Bixby as King og the Banners. I judge them all by their solo films, Bixby by the pilot. I need to see Mark do a full movie before he gets judged.

[terry78]

The only reason I can justify him acting kind of ape-like in that scene was because it was kind of a raw emotion of empathy he was feeling regarding Stark. He saved him and expected him to be all right, and he wasn't.

[Dark Raven]

Originally Posted by Gamma Ra

In those stories, the Hulk was bereft of Banner, who allowed himself to die in Hulk's mind. Hulk had no humanity in him. I agree that Hulk normally does and is supposed to appear neanderthal-ish or apeman-like, but his acting king kongish pounding on his chest bothered me.

Those were only the very very late run of Sal Buscema's Hulk. For most of his run (about a 100 issues or so) Hulk had Banner inside him. This was the classic 70s Hulk who spoke with in the 3rd person and said iconic phrases like "Hulk smash" etc. In Buscema's run, Hulk even gained the intelligence of Banner for a couple of years. So he definitely wasn't a Hulk bereft of Banner. That only happened at the end getting near to #300 because of Nightmare. Then post #300 Hulk was on some alien world for about a year, having been banished there by Dr Strangepork.

By primal force I'm taking it to mean the gamma power that charges him as that energy is a primal force in the universe.

I still hold Bixby as King og the Banners. I judge them all by their solo films, Bixby by the pilot. I need to see Mark do a full movie before he gets judged.

Bixby is definitely still the best Banner, and yes, even in the pilot he showed his amazing talent, but there were many other instances throughout the series. I want to see Ruffalo do a full movie, but I still think Bixby will be the Sean Connery of Banners.

BTW in Season 3 of TIH, Bixby's Banner does also try to commit suicide, because he thinks that the Hulk was responsible for the death of an innocent, and reasons that the real curse isn't so much the monster but the man he's become (as a result of being on the run etc). He quotes Shakespeare with the line from Romeo and Juliet: "past hope, past cure, past help." But then when he found out that someone was in danger (can't remember who) he put aside his own feelings of suicide and went to help because, as a hero, he couldn't ignore his true nature. It's a moving and powerful episode, and also features Bixby's wife Brenda Bennett as a psychic.

I think it would've been cool if Ruffalo had quoted the same Shakespeare line and even the same Bixby quote when talking about how he tried to put a bullet in his mouth when he became that desperate.

[MrGreen]

Originally Posted by Gianakin_

I've only started watching the show, but in no way is Hulk portrayed there as a creature of primal force so far. I'm 6 episodes in and he's already been shown to have a range of emotions and character traits that are not primal.

Love the show, btw. Bixby's leaps and bounds the best Banner and I'm glad Mark is following his approach, something Norton promised he'd do, but, imo, never did (or they cut the scenes where he did). The Avengers and the show have showed me that Banner/Hulk are characters with so much potential, that I want to see more and more of them. I think TV is a good idea, better than cinema, even with obviously risking recasting Banner yet again.

Hm, I think I'm ready to start reading some Hulk stuff from the comics. Wow.

Originally Posted by Dark Raven

Bixby is definitely still the best Banner, and yes, even in the pilot he showed his amazing talent, but there were many other instances throughout the series. I want to see Ruffalo do a full movie, but I still think Bixby will be the Sean Connery of Banners.

BTW in Season 3 of TIH, Bixby's Banner does also try to commit suicide, because he thinks that the Hulk was responsible for the death of an innocent, and reasons that the real curse isn't so much the monster but the man he's become (as a result of being on the run etc). He quotes Shakespeare with the line from Romeo and Juliet: "past hope, past cure, past help." But then when he found out that someone was in danger (can't remember who) he put aside his own feelings of suicide and went to help because, as a hero, he couldn't ignore his true nature. It's a moving and powerful episode, and also features Bixby's wife Brenda Bennett as a psychic.

I think it would've been cool if Ruffalo had quoted the same Shakespeare line and even the same Bixby quote when talking about how he tried to put a bullet in his mouth when he became that desperate.

I used to watch reruns of the show when I was a kid and I loved it. To me Bixby is still the best Banner. Some say that because he had the whole series to develop the character he's the best but you can see that he's the best by just watching the pilot.

One of the episodes I like the most is in season 1 (I think) where it begins with Banner just after a Hulk-out and he thinks he (or Hulk) killed someone. That for me is a powerful moment.

Its a great show even by today's standards.

[Dark Raven]

Originally Posted by MrGreen

I used to watch reruns of the show when I was a kid and I loved it. To me Bixby is still the best Banner. Some say that because he had the whole series to develop the character he's the best but you can see that he's the best by just watching the pilot.

One of the episodes I like the most is in season 1 (I think) where it begins with Banner just after a Hulk-out and he thinks he (or Hulk) killed someone. That for me is a powerful moment.

Its a great show even by today's standards.

That was the one with those dogs, and it plays like a tense mystery thriller, with different people giving their version of the events to exonerate themselves from the blame. Banner takes a job working for the villains there, just to figure out whether the Hulk is really guilty or not. I think it's called something like "Of Models and Murder", or something like that. It might even be the one with the scrap car crusher at the end.

[MrGreen]

Originally Posted by Dark Raven

That was the one with those dogs, and it plays like a tense mystery thriller, with different people giving their version of the events to exonerate themselves from the blame. Banner takes a job working for the villains there, just to figure out whether the Hulk is really guilty or not. I think it's called something like "Of Models and Murder", or something like that. It might even be the one with the scrap car crusher at the end.

That's the one, I think is called "Of Guilt and Murder" or so. Is one of my favorites.
Now that I think about it, there are A LOT of great episodes and is hard to pick a favorite.

I bought the show on dvd and I watch it constantly, the only one I don't have is "The Death..." movie, I remember I cried when I was a kid watching it