The "Hoodie" Incident: Controversial? Racist? - Part 2

[Scrandy Randy]

Two different kind of THC were found in his blood. 1.5 nanograms per milliliter of one type (THC), as well as 7.3 nanograms of another type (THC-COOH). Concentrations of THC routinely rise to 100 to 200 ng/ml after marijuana use, though it typically falls to below 5 ng/ml within three hours of it being smoked, according to information on the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration's website. So adding those two together you'd get 8.8 nanograms per milliliter of THC which is above the level you would typically see three hours after smoking according to the NHTSA.

So no, he was probably smoking that day probably some time close to when the incident happened. This can also be supported by the fact a red lighter was found on his body and there were no cigarettes and it was never said he smoked tobacco.

The autopsy was a day later also so we'll need to find out if death halts the breakdown of drugs in someones system.

[Darthphere]

Originally Posted by Scrandy Randy

Two different kind of THC were found in his blood. 1.5 nanograms per milliliter of one type (THC), as well as 7.3 nanograms of another type (THC-COOH). Concentrations of THC routinely rise to 100 to 200 ng/ml after marijuana use, though it typically falls to below 5 ng/ml within three hours of it being smoked, according to information on the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration's website. So adding those two together you'd get 8.8 nanograms per milliliter of THC which is above the level you would typically see three hours after smoking according to the NHTSA.

So no, he was probably smoking that day probably some time close to when the incident happened. This can also be supported by the fact a red lighter was found on his body and there were no cigarettes and it was never said he smoked tobacco.

The autopsy was a day later also so we'll need to find out if death halts the breakdown of drugs in someones system.

http://news.yahoo.com/documents-shed...235341368.html

"Martin's autopsy indicated that medical examiners found THC, the psychoactive ingredient in marijuana, when they tested Martin's blood and urine. The amount described in the autopsy report is such a low level that it would have played no role in Martin's behavior, said Larry Kobilinsky, a professor of forensic science at John Jay College of Criminal Justice in New York.

"This kind of level can be seen days after somebody smokes," Kobilinsky said. "If it comes up in the case, I would be surprised. It wouldn't benefit the defense, it wouldn't benefit the prosecution, and if the defense tried to bring it up, the judge would keep it out."

[Scrandy Randy]

Originally Posted by Nell2ThaIzzay

It was clearly explained in that article that the levels of THC were trace amounts, and have probably come from smoking days before, and played no part one way or another in Martin's behavior, and would be irrelevant for either the prosecution or the defense.

Not probably. Just they can. Just like they can come from days ago they could have also come from that day 3+ hours prior to the incident.

[DJ_KiDDvIcIOUs]

Trayvon was scared and decided to "stand his ground" when someone was following him. He was a teenager who was freaked out. No matter if he was on top of Zimmerman he was racially profiled by an unbalanced paranoid man that shot him after the incident that HE started. Thats is 2nd degree murder and a hate crime evidenced by the comment he made on the 911 call. Even if the court case falls through which it won't hate crime is more than prevalent which is why the FBI is following through on it right now

[KalMart]

Originally Posted by DJ_KiDDvIcIOUs

Trayvon was scared and decided to "stand his ground" when someone was following him. He was a teenager who was freaked out. No matter if he was on top of Zimmerman he was racially profiled by an unbalanced paranoid man that shot him after the incident that HE started. Thats is 2nd degree murder and a hate crime evidenced by the comment he made on the 911 call. Even if the court case falls through which it won't hate crime is more than prevalent which is why the FBI is following through on it right now

Nope.

http://news.yahoo.com/fbi-considerin...232300357.html

Many legal observers say it will be hard enough to convict Zimmerman of second-degree murder, let alone a federal hate crime.
"What the government would have to prove is that Mr. Zimmerman acted out of hatred toward African-Americans," WFTV legal analyst Bill Sheaffer said. "That's why he came into contact with him. That's why he shot and killed him."

Might make a pretty good video game, though.

[Nell2ThaIzzay]

They won't get him on a hate crime, nor do I think he should be convicted of a hate crime. While I do believe there was racial profiling involved, I don't think that he killed Martin because he was black.

Zimmerman has a history of both helping out minorities, as well as a history of racism. He's helped out black teens, yes, and he also has from-his-own-mouth racist remarks on his own social media websites, generalizing an entire group of people (Mexicans, in this instance) as criminals. There has also been testimony from people who knew Zimmerman personally of racist actions.

That doesn't mean he went out to kill Martin because he was black. I think he was suspicious of Martin because he was black, because there was a recent string of break ins by black suspects, and Zimmerman had a history of generalizing everyone of a particular group of people together. I think he pursued Martin because the last time someone called 911 on a black suspect breaking into someone's house, the guy got away before the cops got there, and Zimmerman took matters into his own hands, which is where I believe murder comes in to play. And as I've explained before, I think that Zimmerman attempted to detain Martin because he didn't want him to get away, Martin fought back to defend himself for Zimmerman's aggression, in Martin fighting back, he landed a blow on Zimmerman that knocked him down, where he hit his head on the concrete, and Zimmerman thus decided to shoot and kill Martin.

That's not a hate crime. While I do believe there was racial profiling going on, I don't believe Zimmerman followed Martin to kill him because he was black.

[DJ_KiDDvIcIOUs]

Originally Posted by Nell2ThaIzzay

They won't get him on a hate crime, nor do I think he should be convicted of a hate crime. While I do believe there was racial profiling involved, I don't think that he killed Martin because he was black.

Zimmerman has a history of both helping out minorities, as well as a history of racism. He's helped out black teens, yes, and he also has from-his-own-mouth racist remarks on his own social media websites, generalizing an entire group of people (Mexicans, in this instance) as criminals. There has also been testimony from people who knew Zimmerman personally of racist actions.

That doesn't mean he went out to kill Martin because he was black. I think he was suspicious of Martin because he was black, because there was a recent string of break ins by black suspects, and Zimmerman had a history of generalizing everyone of a particular group of people together. I think he pursued Martin because the last time someone called 911 on a black suspect breaking into someone's house, the guy got away before the cops got there, and Zimmerman took matters into his own hands, which is where I believe murder comes in to play. And as I've explained before, I think that Zimmerman attempted to detain Martin because he didn't want him to get away, Martin fought back to defend himself for Zimmerman's aggression, in Martin fighting back, he landed a blow on Zimmerman that knocked him down, where he hit his head on the concrete, and Zimmerman thus decided to shoot and kill Martin.

That's not a hate crime. While I do believe there was racial profiling going on, I don't believe Zimmerman followed Martin to kill him because he was black.

Racial profiling followed by a murder makes it a hate crime.

[bullets]

I don't think Zimmerman followed Martin to kill him. An incident was inevitable though becuase Zimmerman is a nutcase and convinced himself the kid was doing something wrong.

[Nell2ThaIzzay]

Originally Posted by bullets

I don't think Zimmerman followed Martin to kill him. An incident was inevitable though becuase Zimmerman is a nutcase and convinced himself the kid was doing something wrong.

I would probably agree that Zimmerman didn't initially pursue to kill. However, once Martin refused to be detained, and the altercation ensued, Zimmerman drastically went to "kill" mode.

[Gotham Knight]

“Investigation reveals that on Aug. 4, Aug. 5 and Oct. 6, 2011, and on Feb. 2, 2012, George Zimmerman reported suspicious persons – all young black males – in the Retreat neighborhood to Sanford Police Department,” it said. “According to records checks, all of Zimmerman’s suspicious persons calls while residing in the Retreat neighborhood have identified black males as the subjects.”

*Sigh*

[Scrandy Randy]

Originally Posted by Gotham Knight

“Investigation reveals that on Aug. 4, Aug. 5 and Oct. 6, 2011, and on Feb. 2, 2012, George Zimmerman reported suspicious persons – all young black males – in the Retreat neighborhood to Sanford Police Department,” it said. “According to records checks, all of Zimmerman’s suspicious persons calls while residing in the Retreat neighborhood have identified black males as the subjects.”

*Sigh*

And that's without any context at all. Why exactly did he say they were suspicious? Were the people robbing houses in his community not young black males? Even ignoring that it doesn't prove anything race related.

[Gotham Knight]

Originally Posted by Scrandy Randy

And that's without any context at all. Why exactly did he say they were suspicious? Were the people robbing houses in his community not young black males? Even ignoring that it doesn't prove anything race related.

*Sigh*

[Scrandy Randy]

Originally Posted by Gotham Knight

*Sigh*

If you're going to be a part of a serious discussion(I'd say the discussion in this topic is pretty serious, no?) childish one word responses don't do much to elevate your opinion or position on the matter.

[Dr.]

Originally Posted by Nell2ThaIzzay

I would probably agree that Zimmerman didn't initially pursue to kill. However, once Martin refused to be detained, and the altercation ensued, Zimmerman drastically went to "kill" mode.

In a full thread + 23 pages, I’m sure this has been mentioned before. If the “stand your ground” law has any merit at all, surely Martin was the one exercising it (albeit unsuccessfully). He wasn’t doing anything wrong; the other party was the aggressor.

[Scrandy Randy]

Originally Posted by Dr.

In a full thread + 23 pages, I’m sure this has been mentioned before. If the “stand your ground” law has any merit at all, surely Martin was the one exercising it (albeit unsuccessfully). He wasn’t doing anything wrong; the other party was the aggressor.

There's nothing to show Zimmerman was trying to detain Martin. That's his own theory on what happened. Zimmerman wasn't the aggressor and didn't do anything to warrant Martin physically attacking him. Martin was the aggressor as evidenced by Martin's knuckle wounds, Zimmerman's broken nose and lacerations, and where the altercation itself took place.

[Darthphere]

The theory isn't that off base though. In the 911 call, isn't the last thing we hear is something to the like of "he's getting away". I'd have to listen to it or read the transcript again to be 100% sure.

[KALEL114]

Originally Posted by Gotham Knight

“Investigation reveals that on Aug. 4, Aug. 5 and Oct. 6, 2011, and on Feb. 2, 2012, George Zimmerman reported suspicious persons – all young black males – in the Retreat neighborhood to Sanford Police Department,” it said. “According to records checks, all of Zimmerman’s suspicious persons calls while residing in the Retreat neighborhood have identified black males as the subjects.”

*Sigh*

I suggest you give this a read. It gives a lot of background for Zimmerman and the neighborhood.

http://news.yahoo.com/george-zimmerm...194235114.html

[Scrandy Randy]

Originally Posted by Darthphere

The theory isn't that off base though. In the 911 call, isn't the last thing we hear is something to the like of "he's getting away". I'd have to listen to it or read the transcript again to be 100% sure.

That's exactly why where the incident took place is so important. Martin was said to be running away with Zimmerman chasing after him yet the incident took place very close to where Zimmerman's vehicle was parked. That makes it pretty obvious(to me at least) that Martin doubled back and confronted Zimmerman. If Zimmerman had been the one chasing him down for me the incident would have needed to take place further down that walkway closer to where he was staying that night and where he was presumably running too.

[roach]

I'll be glad when the trial starts so we can separate the facts from the fiction

[Nell2ThaIzzay]

Originally Posted by Scrandy Randy

That's exactly why where the incident took place is so important. Martin was said to be running away with Zimmerman chasing after him yet the incident took place very close to where Zimmerman's vehicle was parked. That makes it pretty obvious(to me at least) that Martin doubled back and confronted Zimmerman. If Zimmerman had been the one chasing him down for me the incident would have needed to take place further down that walkway closer to where he was staying that night and where he was presumably running too.

Can you link me to where it is stated that it took place close to Zimmerman's vehicle? Because I've read that it took place close to Martin's father's house.

[Anita18]

Originally Posted by roach

I'll be glad when the trial starts so we can separate the facts from the fiction

Unlikely. I completely expect that they will dismiss any jurors who have ANY medical or scientific background. The jurors will be folks who haven't taken science since high school (if even), and will be working only with the information the lawyers want them to work with.

My sister was recently on a jury, where they had dismissed everyone with a medical or scientific background, because the crux of the defense's argument was a scientific claim. IMO, not one that could be argued when you get down to it (I bet there's an upper limit to your natural BAC if you're on a low-carb diet), but they didn't want a "biased" jury. Even though they'd be potentially biased against the evidence, not the defendant. But no, they wanted non-scientists/doctors to go through a day-long crash course in human metabolism instead. A crash course headed by lawyers, not doctors.

A friend even reported that she was on a jury where they dismissed everyone who knew what "DNA evidence" was.

The whole experience really disillusioned my sister to our current jury system, because she felt it was such a dishonest way of getting at "the truth." I agree with being judged by a jury by your peers, but I think the practice of dismissing everyone who has any background knowledge in the evidence to "prevent bias" is overkill.

Hell, I was dismissed from a jury when the defense asked whether we'd be okay with only getting pieces of evidence, and I said no because I'm a scientist and I always want to see everything. I could see the defense lawyer going in her head. And this was a case involving a possibly gang-related assault on a police officer with a skateboard.

It's actually an ongoing joke with us intellectual elites. Scientists, doctors, and engineers never serve on juries.

I'm sure the Martin case jury will do the best they can, but I don't think they'll do a better job at it than anyone else you could pick off the street. And we'll still be arguing about what really happened after it's all over.

[BattleCat]

All i can come up with is a simple what if. What If Zimmerman didn't have a gun, would he have just listened to the police? I would like to think so. Having a gun can make you feel powerful.

[Nell2ThaIzzay]

Originally Posted by KALEL114

I suggest you give this a read. It gives a lot of background for Zimmerman and the neighborhood.

http://news.yahoo.com/george-zimmerm...194235114.html

That means nothing, there is also documentation (links are in this thread, even) of racism from Zimmerman, both on his own MySpace page, as well as testimony from people who knew him who said that he had racist tendencies.

[Scrandy Randy]

Originally Posted by Nell2ThaIzzay

Can you link me to where it is stated that it took place close to Zimmerman's vehicle? Because I've read that it took place close to Martin's father's house.

You can see it in the pictures that were released yesterday. It took place at the start of that long walkway where Zimmerman parked his car where the house he was staying at was at the end of that walkway. Where did you hear it happened close to the house he was staying at?

I also posted a map awhile ago that used an overhead Google map and outlined where Zimmerman parked his car, where Martin was staying, and where the incident took place.

[Spider-Who?]

Originally Posted by Nell2ThaIzzay

That means nothing, there is also documentation (links are in this thread, even) of racism from Zimmerman, both on his own MySpace page, as well as testimony from people who knew him who said that he had racist tendencies.

Of course the information in that link is irrelevant. It doesn't support your own beliefs based not on facts but on bias emotion.